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New Aircraft For Avianca?  
User currently offlineColinatl From Colombia, joined Jul 2005, 40 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3736 times:

Does anyone know which aircraft Avianca is considering to upgrade their fleet? 787s? 737s? 777s? Airbus?

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1863 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3675 times:

Kevin: First of all welcome to the Forum. Regarding your question, I'm afraid none of them. Just an undetermined number of ex AA Fokkers 100 , some MD 83's and 757's...that's it for now.
You can use the search bottom and you'll see all the discussion regarding AV and Colombian Aviation in General.
Bye.



MDE: First airport in the Americas visited by the A380!
User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3623 times:

welcom in the forum Kevin!

Quoting Colinatl (Thread starter):
Airbus?

it would be great if Avianca would have a mix of 320family and 330/340 as the fleet, but if this ever happend than in some years. the most aircraft has still long leasing contracts.

regards
Avianca



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineTavong From Colombia, joined Jul 2001, 834 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

Quoting Colinatl (Thread starter):
Does anyone know which aircraft Avianca is considering to upgrade their fleet? 787s? 737s? 777s? Airbus?

Well at this time the answer is NO, unfortunately AV woun't be getting New Aircraft like the ones you say, i also would love to see an 737-NG in AV CVolors but that won't happen.....well have to wait and see the bunch of MD-80s still flying here quite a lot of time.


BTW, welcome to the forums, i expect you learn a lot of good things here.

Gus
SKBO



Colombian coffee, the best...take a cup and you will see how delicious it is.
User currently offlineDanimarroquin From Colombia, joined Jan 2005, 449 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3344 times:

Two questions :

can Avianca operate 757-300 and 767-400 ?

What happened with Toronto and all the new routes.


User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2376 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

Welcome to the forum!!!

There are many awesome news about our AVIANCA, regarding the fleet, Bongo already gave you the answer..

Bienvenido!



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineTavong From Colombia, joined Jul 2001, 834 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3217 times:

Quoting Danimarroquin (Reply 4):
Two questions :

can Avianca operate 757-300 and 767-400 ?

What happened with Toronto and all the new routes.

Well 757-300 it's a strange option for AV in theory it's possible but due to the little airframes you find i think it won't be possible.

For 767-400 that was discussed before, in theory is the easier replacement for the actual 767-200/300 fleet but at the end the conclusion was that it's main problem is range, it won't do to Europe so it's not a valuable plane for AV, for their loung haul fleet he best choice could be the B772 but it's extremely expensive so the plane would be a choice.

Gus
SKBO



Colombian coffee, the best...take a cup and you will see how delicious it is.
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7524 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3188 times:

Yeah, while the seating capacity of the 764ER (and commonality with -200's and -300's) are interesting for carriers like AM and AV, their limited range makes them useless airliners for flights out of MEX and BOG. I also believe the 772ER would be a good addition for AV in the future (and the 783 too).


Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3165 times:

Quoting Danimarroquin (Reply 4):
What happened with Toronto and all the new routes.

YYZ and LAX rights are on place. AV is just waiting for an extra plane to start LAX and for the YYZ market to mature a little more, but the codeshare with AC is already in place. Its a rush to pass from 3xw A319 to 4xw A319 and 3xw 757 in one year.


User currently offlineAV757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 658 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3116 times:
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For a fleet change AV requested and will get presentations from Boeing and Airbus in the near future. Plans are to define by December of this year the modernization plan for its fleet change beginning 2009 thru 2013.

At the moment Boeing is working on an offer for twenty 737-700's and ten 787-8's; and Airbus is working on their offer for twenty A320's and ten A350's.

The idea is to replace the MD-83's in the short to medium range beginning 2009, and the B757/767 in the long haul range beginning 2011.

The A320 has left a sour memory here at AV from the VX experience with the type here in Colombia, its major weakness is; extremely expensive maintenance costs to operate the airplane on average 27 minute flights on an average of 12 landings a day short cycles to hot temperature, short runways and high altitude airports. High turn around times due to brake cooling of 45 minutes, compared to the MD-83's and B757/767 of 25 minutes on local shuttle flights. A330/340 still too large a volume of passenger capacity and to operate with restricted passenger loads out of BOG for the long haul flights of more than five hours in stage length, A350 still has too many loose ends and variables until a final design is defined by Airbus and comparatively speaking their promises on weight, fuel economy and range performance are still doubtful.

B737's are great proven high cycle short flight machines, have a better design life for this type of operation and maintenance costs are lower in the long run.

B757-300 is out of the question, very difficult to find and get available airframes, only very few built.

B767-400 is under powered for the operation of long haul flights out of BOG with too many restrictions and penalties.

AV757


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3107 times:

Quoting AV757 (Reply 9):
A330/340 still too large a volume of passenger capacity and to operate with restricted passenger loads out of BOG

is the 340 really restricted out of bogotá ? iberia and air france are operating full flights including full of cargo out of bog bound europe, and lufthansa in the past had operation to frankfurt what is some km more than cdg and mad....



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineSoAmSky From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3108 times:

Good news AV757,

It's about time Avianca blows the horn about upgrading equipment if it wants to become a major player in Latin America.

I hope Avianca sticks to Boeing for both short and long haul, this is just a matter of personal opinion. Also, adding to what AV757 said, it would have no presentation for Avianca to say the A320 is the best suitable plane for short haul after they blame this aircraft for Aces demise.



Soar the blue of the South American Sky
User currently offlineAV757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 658 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3110 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The A340-200/300 series does not offer a good cargo capacity out of BOG, I have not seen IB and AF handling large loads and they are imposing strict luggage loads to operate out of BOG. It is extremely expensive to operate with the 250 seat configuration AV wants to offer in a two class layout.

User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5900 posts, RR: 40
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3102 times:

Quoting AV757 (Reply 12):
have not seen IB and AF handling large loads

I think 6 PMC with perishables + 4 AKE containers with other goods are not so bad for the A340, of course with a full aircraft they must offload 1 or 2 pmc but, under anyway they could transport still more cargo than on the 762 or 763 out of bogota on runs to europe



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlineBogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3057 times:

Would a 772 full load be able to operate on a ex-BOG Europebound flight? My understanding was that BA had analized the situation and it was not possible.

User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7524 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3027 times:

Hi Colombian friends! Very interesting post about Boeing and Airbus already working on a proposal, Captain Eduardo.

I did not know that the A32x was at such disadvantage with respect to the 737NG when it comes to short flights/high cycles operations. It is true what they say that one can learn new things everyday; even on Sundays. Based on Eduardo's post, I think the picture is pretty clear as to who should win the order (the imminence of the 787 and the sketchy specs of the A350 do not help Airbus either). Nevertheless, I wonder if AV could be interested in a mixed fleet and, by mixed fleet, I mean:

1. Something like EMB-195's or Bombardier C-Series airplanes for short, domestic routes;

2. The A319/A320 for routes that require more capacity and not so fast turnarounds. I understand that MX, who also operates from a high altitude airport, is very happy with the performance of its A32x's domestically and internationally and uses them in reasonably "longish" flights (like CCS, JFK, YVR). Airbus considers MX one of the top customers in terms of fleet utilization (i.e., keeping the airplanes on the air); and

3. 788's (and, perhaps, 772ER's) for long-haul service.

I am assuming that the A319/320 are the best alternative in terms of price, maintenance cost, payload and range for the job I described, but of course if Boeing can offer better performace and price, then I think the new AV livery would look fantastic in wingletted 73G's and 738's!



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineSoAmSky From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2991 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 15):
I am assuming that the A319/320 are the best alternative in terms of price, maintenance cost, payload and range for the job I described,

Dude, you just read AV757 where he clearly states and explains why the A320 has a higher maintenance cost:

Quoting AV757 (Reply 9):
The A320 has left a sour memory here at AV from the VX experience with the type here in Colombia, its major weakness is; extremely expensive maintenance costs to operate the airplane on average 27 minute flights on an average of 12 landings a day short cycles to hot temperature, short runways and high altitude airports. High turn around times due to brake cooling of 45 minutes,



Quoting AV757 (Reply 9):
B737's are great proven high cycle short flight machines, have a better design life for this type of operation and maintenance costs are lower in the long run.

So, why, EddieDude, do you assume that the A320 is the best alternative in term of maintenance cost?



Soar the blue of the South American Sky
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