Hisham From Lebanon, joined Aug 1999, 701 posts, RR: 12 Posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1385 times:
While planning a trip to denver (from Beirut), I find out that united (the hubing airline) doesn't operate any transatlantic flights form there. How come? It would have been possible for me to get there with only one stop in Europe.
BA is the only airline that operates from Europe. Unfortunetly, they fly from Gatwick. I can't get there, by plane at least.
My itinerary now is BEY- AMS- DTW- DEN with KLM and Northwest. Anybody has a better idea?
Ual747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 1, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1212 times:
I would steer clear of NW in the states. Not one of our better airlines. Why don't you fly BA to LHR and then LHR to ORD via American or United, (nice 777 flights) then fly from ORD to Denver. That would be my choice.
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7719 posts, RR: 17 Reply 3, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1182 times:
United has applied for route authority for LHR-DEN... which despite the open skies agreement may not come through, since BA operates their flight from Gatwick. But you could try Air France to CDG, I am sure they fly from Beruit, and take CO to Newark or Houston to connect to Denver.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
Ual747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1172 times:
Im sorry TWFirst. It might be an interesting experience for him to fly on the oldest flying passenger planes in the US with Northwest. And by the way, I was in no way being biased in favor of United. I prefer American anyway.
Heinz From Germany, joined Feb 2000, 256 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1166 times:
Northwest sure don't operate the most modern equipment to Europe. I happened to see N601US in Amsterdam a few months ago, which, although
it was painted beautifully in the new c/s, is still one
of the oldest 747-100s around in regular pax service
(fuselage no. 27 / built in 1970).
In addition, there were lots of DC10s from the early
seventies (about 10 Northwest aircraft altogether).
FlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1161 times:
Whatever you do, don't fly Northwest. Their aircraft are old and dingy. Their flight attendants are old and ugly and alienated. After a trip with Cathay Pacific, our family took a vacation to Spain on NW and I went to the back to ask the flight attendants why they don't have PTVs or decks of cards, clean interiors or clean lavatories, or meal vouchers. They said that they were a low cost airline. But DC-10s are expensive to operate compared to 777s; they have 3 engines and fewer pax.
I agree with TWFirst: fly from Tel Aviv to EWR and then to Denver on Continental. You'll get a much better feel for American corporate culture.
TWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52 Reply 7, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1157 times:
Again folks, let's look at Hisham's post. There's no indication his first priority is the type or age of aircraft he'll be flying on. Unless you guys are reading something I'm not, he's interested in convenience.
I don't dispute anything you guys have said about fleet ages, and I'm definitely not a Northwest fan, but I will say this: I've been on Northwest's reburshied DC9's and I've been on American's F100's, and I'd much rather fly the DC9's: sparkling new interiors. AA's F100's were filthy, old and worn.
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4210 posts, RR: 36 Reply 8, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1142 times:
You'd still consider travelling via Amsterdam! The Dutch charter-airline Martinair has scheduled services to Denver, non stop. I think the KLM-office in Beirut can help you on a one-stop BEY-AMS-DEN ticket, by KLM and their affiliate Martinair. But if the connections are lousy, a two-stop trip might be better. United and NW both have good connections to Denver, it only takes an extra hour or two.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
Boeingrulz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 458 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1140 times:
I think that your comments about NW flight attendants are absolutly un-called-for. If you approached the flight attendant with the same attitude that you show in your post, I am surprised he/she didn't slap you.
Hisham From Lebanon, joined Aug 1999, 701 posts, RR: 12 Reply 11, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1125 times:
Thank you guys!
I didn't know Northwest was that bad. Actually, I chose them because I already traveled with KLM and I liked their service + NW is the only American airline that uses 747s across the atlantic. I haven't flown one yet, can you believe it? So the type does count (with price and convenience).
UaL747, I couldn't find a flight via LHR on the BA website.
You want to hear something funny. Air France offers a flight BEY- DEN without using any of its own equipment! Middle East Airlines (MEA) flies BEY- CDG, Delta flies CDG- ATL, ATL- DEN. The problem is that I don't want to fly the 767 across the atlantic.
Tel Aviv? The last time I saw an Israeli plane, it was bombing our electricity supply! (just last week). So I 'd rather not!
TWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52 Reply 13, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1117 times:
Yeah, I had a feeling the TLV suggestion might bring up some political sensitivities. Sorry!
(However, you wouldn't be flying on an Israeli plane, and you could just ignore all the Israeli planes on the tarmac and not look them... OK, I guess that wouldn't work. Sorry to hear about your electricity supply. Guess they didn't destroy it though because you are able to get on the internet
HERE'S GOOD NEWS THOUGH, United's LHR-DEN flight is showing up in reservation systems for this fall (starting in October) so the route must have been approved. I just looked up the BEY-DEN route and found an itinerary from BEY to DEN on MEA/UA, connecting at Heathrow. When are planning to go to DEN?
Hisham From Lebanon, joined Aug 1999, 701 posts, RR: 12 Reply 14, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1110 times:
I asked about MEA/UA via LHR, it's very expensive. They don't know the exact fare yet but since these airlines don't have any agreement between them, I'll have to pay an "IATA fare" which is expensive. This's what I understood from my travel agent. Anyway, I'm leaving in August. But thanks anyway TWFirst.
Martinair doesn't mention any AMS- DEN flights on its website.
AeroAussie From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1108 times:
Actually, United is very good domestically. NW has no equivalent of Economy Plus, or whatever it is. Also, UA gives you headrests, and meals that are at least 1/2 decent. Also, they have much nicer hubs. (Detroit is horrible.)
Hisham-Any way you go, you'll have to make two stops. But, BA does operate a connecting service between Gatwick and Heathrow on a bus. It may be worth looking into. Short of that, I'd go with LH/UA (BEY-FRA-IAD, EWR, or ORD-DEN) or with AZ/CO (BEY-MXP or FCO-EWR-DEN) I don't know for sure if Alitalia flies to Beirut or not, though.
Flyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1108 times:
Martinair stopped DEN-AMS over a year ago. It was flown 3x weekly with 767-300ER. Theres nothing wrong with Northwest, don't worry. I've been on dozens of their flights and to me it compares favoribly or evenly to the other majors I've been on. I would personally fly to LHR then get a 1 stop 777 to DEN (stops in Newark).
Exnonrev From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 621 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1098 times:
Too bad CO discontinued its DEN-LGW flight when they closed the DEN hub. It did pretty well for them. It was especially popular among CO pass riders who could never get on IAH or EWR-LGW due to heavy loads.
Trivia - The last airplane ever to leave Denver-Stapleton on 27 Feb 95 was CO 34 (DC-10-30 N12061) DEN-LGW.
FLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4510 posts, RR: 3 Reply 18, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1087 times:
The DEN-LHR service won't be starting for quite a while...probably much longer than late March of '01.
The flights that Apollo showed for 29 DEC 00 and 23 MAR 01 (two random dates) were flights 906 and 958, stopping in EWR and ORD, respectively. These routes are operated by 777's from DEN-EWR-LHR, and 757 DEN-ORD/767-300 ORD-LHR.
FlyBoeing From United States of America, joined May 2000, 866 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1085 times:
I stand by my comments on the NW flight attendants. I have maybe once gotten good service on a NW flight, and I fly about 2-3 times a year, and once a year to the Philippines on NW.
Now contrast NW with Cathay Pacific- another airline which is NOT government subsidized and thus has to rely on its own merits to survive. Or look at Continental.
NW flight attendants do not come when you push the button (and rarely enough in Business Class) and when they do come they ask to turn the light off. NW flite attendants are noticeably less attractive than those of even other American carriers, and they do not go out of their way to fix problems. On my last Continental segment a flight attendant spend 30 minutes trying to fix a bulb that wouldn't go off. They look you in the eye. Where NW attendants don't give water or food to diabetics about to go into insulin shock, CO attendants dealt with a passenger heart attack with dispatch and aplomb. NW attendants hide from the passengers. Yes, I have the right to talk about the glaring problems of NW inflight service. I have the right to have an opinion. I do not have the right to disrespect the flight attendants, but it has become common that NW's don't reciprocate.
Fjnovak1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 592 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1065 times:
I don't know about Northwest flight crews on international routes, but I have flown all kinds of domestic routes on Northwest as I live near Detroit, soch as DTW-FLL, DTW-SFO, DTW-MCO, DTW-PBI, DTW-DCA, and MSP-DTW on 727s, 757s, DC10s, 320s, DC9s, and 319s. Honestly, I will give you the 411 on Northwest. The food service is mediocre but steadily improving. In-flight entertainment sucks big time...one movie internationally and re-runs of "Dharma&Greg" and the like on domestic 757 flights (like DTW-DEN is usually a 757) Detroit's airport is miserable no matter if you live here or connect here. You might get your days exercise going from one gate to another. The planes are old, but lots of them have newer interiors (especially the DC9s, DC10s, and some 757s) but the 727s are dingy. The 319s are brand new and the A320s are recent if not brand new. Northwest has gone a decade since their last serious accident (pilot error) and the plane type involved (the MD-80) no longer is used at NW. I believe their maintenance is first-rate, and the planes are old because they couldn't order new ones while they were in Chapter 11 for much of the first third of the nineties ('90-'94)
As for the flight attendants, I have encountered no flight attendant that has been rude to me. My negative experiences with Northwest have ALL been with the ground crew in Detroit (gate agents, CSRs, etc...) Almost every flight I am on there is one very attractive flight attendant, and yes, almost invariably one older flight attendant. There also seems to be a great amount of diversity amongst FAs (I respect that)...lots of male FAs also (different from other airlines)...
Northwest and Continental is all I will fly because A) I live in Southeastern Michigan and B) they are a known-quantity; I haven't flown with anyone else since 1997 (with Continental). Give them a shot if the airfare is right.
ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5563 posts, RR: 38 Reply 21, posted (13 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1057 times:
An other possibility: SR 353 to Zurich (6 times/week, A 320/321, leaving Bey 03.30, arriving in ZRH at 06.40) then SR 124 to ORD (leaving in ZRH at 10.20, A 330-200, arriving 12.50) and then AA to Denver (leaving ORD 15.00, arriving 16.40).
Have a nice trip.