Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4654 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8646 times:
I think AA is taking delivery of a few 777s either this year or next year. From what a friend of mine has told me, any aircraft delivery that has been deferred can easily be "un-deferred". So, if AA needs more 777s, it can easily get production slots.
My guess is that AA will need to make a refueling stop, possibly at LHR, to maximize connecting opportunities. DL used to fly FRA to BOM/DEL, so there was a need to change planes.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10192 posts, RR: 62 Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8548 times:
Quoting Ckfred (Reply 5): I think AA is taking delivery of a few 777s either this year or next year.
Correct. Two 777s are being delivered in February and will be used almost immediately on ORD-PVG which launches 2 April 05.
Quoting Ckfred (Reply 5): From what a friend of mine has told me, any aircraft delivery that has been deferred can easily be "un-deferred". So, if AA needs more 777s, it can easily get production slots.
This is true, but AA's CEO, Gerard Arpey, told me in the spring that AA is really focused right now on turning a profit and making the planes it already has profitable before they spend any money on new planes.
Quoting Ckfred (Reply 5): My guess is that AA will need to make a refueling stop, possibly at LHR, to maximize connecting opportunities. DL used to fly FRA to BOM/DEL, so there was a need to change planes.
There's no point in flying ORD-DEL with a 777 if it's going to make a stop. If a stop will be included in the routing, then the flight would probably be a daily 767-300 ORD-BRU-DEL. In addition, AA does not have rights to carrying passengers LHR-DEL, and thus a LHR stop would almost certainly be out of the question.
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 6): the -200ER's should be able to do that without too many problems (according to the Boeing website).....
I think AA's 777-200IGWs, with RR Trents, should be able to make ORD-DEL nonstop.
Aa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8269 times:
I talked to my friend last night, and got some clarification. AA is finalizing cotracts in DEL right now, once all that is set, look for a formal announcement. Also it appears SJCNRT will be the casualty, and DFWFRA will downgrade to a 763, so there are your two airplanes.
BigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2755 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8149 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 11): I must say, though, that I still won't believe this until I see it.
I agree with Commavia (as I usually do). This seems out of character for AA right now. Although SJCNRT isn't the best transpacific flight for them, I can't seem them pulling the plug and losing the NRT slot to open a route to India.
But then I have been wrong before. So we shall see. If this were to happen this December, wouldn't a press release be coming very soon?
I wouldn't be surprised if they ended this route...since the "dot.bomb" implosion, AA has downgraded their routes from SJC significantly....
I wish they would keep the route as the Bay Area has a massive Indian population, and with India having a large tech sector (hence ties to silicon valley), AA might have been able to serve serve SJC-DEL (but might be a bit of a stretch due to ETOPS and the Himalayans..)
CX750 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 155 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8019 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 11): Actually, wouldn't that be 4 777's? You need to 2 for SJC-NRT and 2 for DFW-FRA, so what are they going to do with the extra two?
I think DFWFRA would only be 1 shell (plus maitenance) , and SJC-NRT would be 2 shells. Operating ORDDEL requires a little over 2 shells if you account for maintenance, they'll probably throw in another domestic run to fully utilize the three B777s.
btw, I have heard the same from an insider - AA is looking at ORDDEL for Dec.
Aaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1442 posts, RR: 14 Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8010 times:
Does seem unusual that AA would relinquish a NRT slot considering the effort AA has been exerting to obtain a (desirable) slot to start HNL-NRT-HNL. However, such a move - dropping SJC-NRT - would in likelihood pave the way for HNL-NRT. AA has until November to commence the route.
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 1): Where is AA going to get the two (or would it be 3) 777's
Which variant are the recently returned RG 777's? Which powerplants are they equipped with? Assuming this route info is factual, any opinions on whether AA might perhaps execute a lease for these planes if they're still available?
[Edited 2005-07-08 18:15:38]
[Edited 2005-07-08 18:21:26]
With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10192 posts, RR: 62 Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7833 times:
CX750 -- please read my whole reply in Reply 11.
This would definitely give AA a huge advantage over DL on their U.S.-CDG-India routings, and on NW on their U.S.-AMS-India routings. If, indeed, this happens, AA and CO will probably pick up a huge amount of U.S.-India traffic overnight because of the speed and convenience of overflying European hubs. In addition, they can probably demand at least a slight fare premium because of the speed and convenience.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7785 times:
What people have been saying here is also what I've heard.
ORD-DEL would start sometime in late 2005/early 2006. As for where the plane comes from, I've gotten two scenarios: SJC-NRT gone, slot goes to HNL-NRT, and DFW-FRA becomes a 763, or the 2nd MIA-EZE becomes a 763 again, which frees two 777s.
The problem is that UA just doesn't have the right equipment for this route.
Their 777-200ERs would smash into the ground long before reaching DEL from ORD with any good payload, and I don't know that they're confident they could operate the 744 with a sufficient load, although it could certainly perform the route with a few small restrictions.
Quoting Commavia (Reply 19): This would definitely give AA a huge advantage over DL on their U.S.-CDG-India routings, and on NW on their U.S.-AMS-India routings.
Northwest could operate DEL nonstop from DTW or MSP with 744 equipment, again I think its a confidence problem with filling the airframe.
Delta is just screwed. They're in a bad position with their fleet, because their 777s could operate JFK-DEL no problem. Hell, one of their MD-11s should be able to operate the route fine, but they don't have them anymore (for no apparent reason). JFK-DEL isn't any further than LAX-HKG.
I don't really understand why its taken so long to get to this nonstop point between the USA and India. Most of the northern cities in the US have been reachable with the equipment we've had since the early 90s.
PRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7683 times:
Seems a bit too quick to start such a longhaul operation...I've heard AA and APA (Allied Pilots (AA Union) were in talks regarding a start-up date and test flight(s)...nothing official has been released due to competitive reasons. Also, not sure how they would go around hiring a few speaker FAs for the route since AA does not have any Hindi qualified speaker FAs. They cannot hire off the street yet due to contractual re-call rights of furloughees. I heard from AA Management they are very interested on serving India but would not rush into it. I guess we'll have to stay tuned. I am sure they could realign some 777s if necessary and start the route. Not sure if it would be nonstop or via Europe.
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4654 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 7326 times:
It seems to me that a ORD-DEL flight would do very well. There is a significant Indian population in the Chicago area, and a lot of employers in the area have either sent jobs or created jobs in India. So there is a potential for both leisure and business traffic.
My wife works with several Indians who go to visit relatives once or twice a year. Despite the downgrading of in-flight ammenities in domestic coach, U.S. carriers, both legacies and LCCs have far more reliable service than Air India. In other words, any U.S. carrier out of ORD could do very well out of ORD to India
25 BoeingFever777: That's a long flight I must say! Over 6,500 NM. Although I know the 772ER can go well over 7,500 NM. Also where is AA going to get the metal for this?
26 Jacobin777: I hope they don't ditch it, as the -200ER flies over my house occasionally... ..what a BEAUTIFUL sight to see!!
27 Ckfred: I was of the opinion that AA was still looking at starting ORD-HKG. Is that routes still being considered, is does ORD-DEL make that route a non-start
28 Commavia: I personally think that we will see an ORD-HKG route by AA once new 777s start arriving (in 2013!). The route just makes so much sense for so many re
29 FLY777UAL: AA won't have the ability to fly a direct over-the-pole GC route because of the restrictions over the Himalayas, correct? So in this case, will they h
30 CX750: Sorry, missed the last line. You are correct, 1 shell each. To the topic overall, AA's B777s are premium heavy, and although ORD-DEL should attract s
31 AA777223ER: Interesting news. The rumors on the line a couple months back was that we would be serving Indian via connections in BRU, as we had secured rights to
32 Aa777jr: I like the idea of AA using their NRT slot for a HNL-NRT run, but isn't the SJC-NRT route doing well still? Would AA use 763 on HNL-NRT? I have also h
33 Eyeonthesky17: I'd be surprised to see AA start ORDDEL so soon. While F and C would sell out instantaneously, filling a 772 in Y class without European originating/
34 BigGSFO: It still doesn't make sense to me why a slot would be moved from SJCNRT to HNLNRT, a route already served by 3 airlines (NW, UA, JL) with multiple fli
35 UnitedFirst: Interesting news. The rumors on the line a couple months back was that we would be serving Indian via connections in BRU, as we had secured rights to
36 Dutchjet: Is the US-India market going to get a bit crowded? The new CO and possibly AA nonstop 777s, Jet Airways getting ready to launch service hopefully by t
37 Shawnnyc: Not true. US carriers are not know in India for good food or in flight entertainment. AA will be stealing pax more so from LH and BA then from AI (AI
38 CHI787ORD: AA should try to make landfall around 3AM-5AM Indian Time, this way, they can make reasonable connections with exisiting Air India & Indian Airlines
39 SW733: This is exactly what I was thinking...isn't there some restriction that the aircraft must have four jets to cross the Himalayas? I thought I remember
40 Jacobin777: it shouldn't be a problem for AA if they fly that route, as they will basically avoid the Himalayan range, in fact, they would fly most probably over
41 Jasepl: There probably isn't a 'terrorist' problem, certainly. But American carriers were forbidden from overflying most, if not all, of the 'Stans. I think
42 Nimish: Is it possible to get miles on low economy fares with AAdvantage? If yes, that would definitely help get the existing AAdvantage members onto these fl
43 Ckfred: I know some AA employees who think Arpey is trying to fool AA's competitors, by saying it won't buy more planes of any kind, until AA makes money. The
44 Jacobin777: very interesting, i'm curious to see how they pull this route if it goes nonstop..regardless..i would take it...
45 Aa777flyer: I could not agree more. I also think that if Mr. Boeing came to AA with a kick ass deal on the 787 (lease) he would take it. AA does have a aging pro
46 MAH4546: Many of the MD80s and A300s are not that old. The youngest A300 is 12 and the youngest MD80 is seven.
47 Slider: Aeropolitics and the lack of a bilateral. India is finally getting off dead center with their aviation policies, which have been prohibitive to say t
48 NYCAAer: I'm surprised to read AA is interested in DEL. We have been hearing in the company rumor mill that AA is far more interested in serving BOM, because i
49 Shawnnyc: I think it is because of aircraft range. They would need a 777LR to make it ORD-BOM. But you are right, premium traffic is much stronger to BOM. I th
50 Timz: "isn't there some restriction that the aircraft must have four jets to cross the Himalayas?" Maybe somewhere in this thread you'll find the straight d
51 Egghead: Good thing our carriers don't know they are flying to HinduSTAN
52 Kevi747: Maybe they would hire "Flight Service Directors" like we have on our flights to Haiti. They are non-union management people, but are jumpseat qualifi
53 B747-437B: That would mean departing from Chicago approximately 2am-4am local time there, which in turn would mean very unfavorable domestic connections on that
54 MAH4546: Rumour has it that there will be a PR announcing ORD-DEL out tomorrow. And AA will be flying to Mumbai too in 2006, though via Europe (probably Brusse
55 NomoreRJs: ORD to DEL: Leave around 7:00 pm arrive around 8:00 pm. DEL to ORD: Leave around 12:00 am arrive around 5:00 am. This would work nicely. ORD to DEL ca
56 CHI787ORD: Hmmmm, How does DEL handle the capacity when it only has one runway and like 7 gates? That time is peak for almost all flights @ DEL isn't it?
57 Airish: It looks like Air Sahara will code-share on the flight. http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/businessline/blnus/09121306.htm One starts to think that w
58 B747-437B: The airport has 2 runways (09/27 and 10/28) and 75 parking bays allowing passenger terminal access (54 domestic, 21 international inc. 9 airbridges).
59 FlyMIA: Here is the Chicago Tribune article. Daily non-stop service starts 15 November 2005. Amazing to think that as recently as March, AA flew to one city i
60 NYCAAer: Interesting that the Chicago Tribune got the scoop, including statements from AA management. It's not with any of the news wires like AP or Reuters as
61 MAH4546: Yes, but not all the flights are operated by Chicago-based crews.
62 Aa777flyer: I hate to bash all the nay sayers in the early part of this thread....But I told you so!
63 NYCAAer: Currently, the the only long haul international flight out of ORD not operated by a Chicago crew is one of the 5 daily ORD-LHR flights, which is flow
64 Jasepl: Ha ha! You Americans were never any good at geography! Besides, the rule only says you can't overfly the 'Stans. Nothing about flying to a 'Stan!
65 MAH4546: Service announced: http://www.aa.com/content/amrcorp/pressReleases/2005_07/12_delhi.jhtml Schedule: AA 292 ORD 2110-2305+1 DEL 772 Daily AA 293 DEL 01
66 BigGSFO: Do we know which flights are losing 777's to accommodate the DEL flight?
67 Incitatus: The aircraft leaves Chicago at 9 pm and returns at 6 am two nights later. Chicago already had an AA 777 sitting overnight to serve the morning depart
68 Shawnnyc: So its about a 3+ hour savings each direction over a fast onestop (think I did that right). I don't know about the timings they chose. I wish they wo
69 KKMolokai: AA, APA Agree On Extended Long-Haul Flying As part of their shared goal to position American Airlines to compete effectively in the global air travel
70 Sshank: Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 65): AA 292 ORD 2110-2305+1 DEL 772 Daily AA 293 DEL 0130-0555 ORD 772 Daily So its about a 3+ hour savings each direction over
71 PSU.DTW.SCE: As said the timing is partially due to the aircraft limitations, specifically the limited supply of 777's. In Nov, ORD-LHR goes back to 4 daily flight
72 BigGSFO: I agree. The dynamics between US-India have changed with the advent of these new non-stop flights. Those flights via Europe will be the ones who suff
73 CHI787ORD: I would've loved to UA livery once again at DEL. Oh well, let this be a message to UA: you snooze you lose.
74 Jacobin777: those were my thoughts exactly..if the flight arrived in the afternoon early evening, I could have made my connecting flights to say KHI..but it seem
75 Airlinerfreak: Just a question, what happens to the 777 in the 18 hours that it has off? Will the fly it on a filler route like lets say ORD-LAX-ORD which would be
76 Shawnnyc: I understand the aircraft limitation. That aside, if you are trying to compete against the Euro airlines, a earlier arrival would have been better (s
77 CHI787ORD: mmmm.... I agree. AA and other US carriers need to realize that many Indians are now opting to fly from secondary markets: Ahmedabad, Amritsar, Banga
78 CHI787ORD: A connection to Ahmedabad would be good to. Don't worry, I won't forget about you Chi-town Gujus!
79 PSU.DTW.SCE: See my previous post.....the 777's are not dedicated specifically for this route. They will be used to fly other routes. An aircraft that arrived ear
80 Incitatus: It used to be the race was American against United. A sign of bankruptcy slowly taking its toll that Continental replaces United as a contender for l
81 MAH4546: There never was a race to be #1 to Latin America. AA is so far ahead of anybody it isn't even funny. The only race is to be #2, and CO has a solid po
82 Vegasplanes: It's official, from Yahoo.com News: FORT WORTH, Texas, July 12 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- American Airlines announced today it will begin daily nonstop
83 Airlinerfreak: Yes I am aware but they used to do it with Flight #2446 from DFW-LAX-DFW. It's routing was as follows....LGW-DFW-LAX-DFW-LGW or at least that is what
84 AA623BDLSJU: This is awesome news to read. What was first speculated was definitely confirmed and yet so soon. I know those will book up quickly. I remember when I
85 Jacobin777: unfortunately,they don't have too many routes from the SFO area and there has been talk in this forum about AA ending their SJC-NRT 777 service....wh