Travelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3311 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 8143 times:
So what are they going to do with the A345s? I had thought the YYZ-DEL would be lucrative for AC, but apparently it's not.
Gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 8029 times:
Or that their configuration on the 345 isn't right for the market.
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4439 posts, RR: 43 Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7920 times:
AC is $ 300-500 more than what the competition (KU-AI-LH-AF-EK-GF-SU-OS-AZ) charges to DEL from here and in such a price sensitive market, very few people would want to pay that extra premium.
Infact compared to Kuwait Airways, AC is $ 600 approx more costly from YYZ to DEL!!!
This route via ZRH is an interesting route to say the least for it provides AC with the opporunity to carry 5th freedom traffic on the DEL-ZRH-DEL sector which does not see nonstop flights ever since SWISS suspended DEL few years ago. There are many who will AC in J class from DEL to ZRH and back for example rich India bank account holders in Switzerland + Businessmen + politicians.
ZRH is also now a STAR ALLIANCE HUB ever since LX was taken over by LH and AC always had a desire to fly to ZRH year round but in the winter + off seasons loads and yields werent good enough to justify a year round flight. With DEL now being routed with a 218 seater B 763ER, it gives AC the opportunity they have been waiting for to fly to ZRH year round and at the same time try and get decent revenues-yield on ZRH-DEL-ZRH route.
Jaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7552 times:
Quoting YUL332LX (Reply 3): It goes to prove that yields are just not that good on the India-North-America routes.
Or at least on the Delhi-Canada route which never appeared to be anything more than a route catering to Punjabis and Sikhs from the Delhi catchment and Indian-Canadians visiting family in North India.
Quoting Behramjee (Reply 6): AC is $ 300-500 more than what the competition (KU-AI-LH-AF-EK-GF-SU-OS-AZ) charges to DEL from here and in such a price sensitive market, very few people would want to pay that extra premium.
Infact compared to Kuwait Airways, AC is $ 600 approx more costly from YYZ to DEL!!!
This route via ZRH is an interesting route to say the least for it provides AC with the opporunity to carry 5th freedom traffic on the DEL-ZRH-DEL sector which does not see nonstop flights ever since SWISS suspended DEL few years ago. There are many who will AC in J class from DEL to ZRH and back for example rich India bank account holders in Switzerland rtunity they have been waiting for to fly to ZRH year round and at the same time try and get decent revenues-yield on ZRH-DEL-ZRH route.
I think you are correct, and AC will also codeshare on Swiss' daily YUL-ZRH flight, which should be an attractive choice for the YUL-DEL market. There will be decent connecting times in ZRH in both directions.
Also, from a cargo perspective, AC couldn't get much, if any, freight on the DEL-YYZ nonstop, but will get 12 tonnes on DEL-ZRH-YYZ and can serve two separate markets at that, allowing them to get a richer yield, just as you suggest on the passenger side.
Another part of the story is that the 343 flying time being created here (and with the addition of another 343 to the fleet last week) will go into the Latin America-Asia market via Toronto.
Toronto-Sao Paulo is being upgauged to a 343 for the winter schedule, as is Toronto-Tokyo. The Toronto-Hong Kong nonstop will be daily instead of five flights a week this winter and the new Toronto-Beijing route will operate right through the winter with four frequencies.
HanginOut From Austria, joined May 2005, 545 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7341 times:
This change in routing and aircraft is also most likely due to the fact that Air Canada are hurting for aircraft right now for their international routes. By making Delhi a one stop from Zurich, you can add a new route (and most likely a very profitable one) while still serving a high demand but low yield route. The change in aircraft also probably allows AC to deploy the A343 to a more high demand/yield route. This change also allows AC to increase the route frequency to Delhi and probably another route where the A343 will be redeployed. In the future, if the demand and yield is there, Air Canada could always make Delhi a non-stop again once they have new aircraft in the inventory.
On that note, I really hope that they can solve this nonsense with the pilots and renegotiate their order with Boeing.
Aircanada333 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 471 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7310 times:
Quoting Travelin man (Reply 2): So what are they going to do with the A345s? I had thought the YYZ-DEL would be lucrative for AC, but apparently it's not.
AC is using their A345's on the YYZ to HGK route. They won't use them for the YYZ to DEL route.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6870 times:
Interesting move by AC - and the announcement suggests that there will be cooperation between AC and LX once the LH/LX deal is done and LX becomes a Star Alliance member.
AC only has two A345s which were mainly doing the YYZ-HKG nonstop, as pointed out, the DEL flight was mainly operated by the A343 and, on a rather frequent basis, was making a fuel stop in Europe on the westbound journey. I am surprised that AC is going with the 763 on the YYZ-ZRH-DEL route, seems a bit small to me (especially when considering that two distinct destinations are being served with a 200 pax aircraft).....but the daily service will be appreciated by business and premium pax. I guess that AC has no other aircraft type to assign to the route, with the A333/343 fleet flight longer haul and higher demand routes. If I remember correctly, AC is even using a 763 on the YYZ-NRT route at the present time.
Mrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 6855 times:
Quoting Jaysit (Reply 10): Or at least on the Delhi-Canada route which never appeared to be anything more than a route catering to Punjabis and Sikhs from the Delhi catchment and Indian-Canadians visiting family in North India.
And now with the AI rustbuckets serving this market directly via BHX there was lesser demand for the Sardarjis to fly on Air Canada.
Polaris From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1118 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6492 times:
Two replies to notes posted above:
Yes, AC will serve Zurich twice daily. Once daily from Toronto and once daily on the return from Delhi. Both flights will be on the ground at the same time in Zurich.
Jasepl From India, joined Jul 2004, 3582 posts, RR: 44 Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6225 times:
Quoting Snehnath (Reply 1): It goes to prove that yields are just not that good on the India-North-America routes.
Not really. It does show that yields from Canada to Dilly are crap. And that it's a market better suited to the Air India types (put bums in seats, screw the yields) or the BAs and AFs of the world, who have a hub mid-way.
Don't AC have Canada-LHR-India permissions? That could be a more than decent performer, with connection possibilities from across Canada on AC aircraft. Kind of how DL route all India traffic through Paris, except AC connect more LHR to more cities (Toronto, Montréal, Halifax, Ottawa, Vancouver, St Johns, Calgary) than DL do CDG (ATL, JFK, CVG).
BandA From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 336 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6209 times:
Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 7): Infact compared to Kuwait Airways, AC is $ 600 approx more costly from YYZ to DEL!!!
I agree, I have a lot of friends from YYZ, from what I hear a lot of YYZ-DEL offerings and carriers such as Aeroflot and the aforementioned Kuwait Airways are the cheapest from YYZ to DEL (not non-stop ofcourse)
"They [Terrorists] never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - GWB
Ourboeing From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 474 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6198 times:
Quoting Mrniji (Reply 18): Quoting Jaysit (Reply 10):
Or at least on the Delhi-Canada route which never appeared to be anything more than a route catering to Punjabis and Sikhs from the Delhi catchment and Indian-Canadians visiting family in North India.
And now with the AI rustbuckets serving this market directly via BHX there was lesser demand for the Sardarjis to fly on Air Canada.
As much as I hated the IAD-YYZ-DEL-YYZ-IAD flight I took last year, it was surprisingly full. There was not even one vacant seat on the aircraft either way. I think AC is making a BIG mistake by changing this route. I bit...ched enough about their bad customer service..maybe that has made a difference
By the way, stop talking about Sardarjis, I am one and am damn proud of it too
Aseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2042 posts, RR: 11 Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5908 times:
Quoting Ourboeing (Reply 22): As much as I hated the IAD-YYZ-DEL-YYZ-IAD flight I took last year, it was surprisingly full. There was not even one vacant seat on the aircraft either way. I think AC is making a BIG mistake by changing this route. I bit...ched enough about their bad customer service..maybe that has made a difference Smile
By the way, stop talking about Sardarjis, I am one and am damn proud of it too Smile
Prahji!! fully agree with you. I too took that flight and it was full, its different though that it was christmas season.
Imagine serving India, and no booze!! The guy next to me was carrying his own Vodka.
balle balle!!
VT-ASJ
Accargo From Canada, joined Sep 2004, 610 posts, RR: 8 Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5856 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 17): the DEL flight was mainly operated by the A343 and, on a rather frequent basis, was making a fuel stop in Europe on the westbound journey.
You data is a little old. Those fuel stops were necessary due to a dispute with the Russian gov't about overflight rights. It was solved in late 2003/early 2004. The YYZ-DEL and DEL-YYZ have flight been operating as non-stops, albeit with load restrictions at certain times of the year.
STARalliance24 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 378 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5745 times:
Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 17): DEL flight was mainly operated by the A343 and, on a rather frequent basis, was making a fuel stop in Europe on the westbound journey
Aircanada333 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 471 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5363 times:
Who know's what AC will do with the A343 that was operating YYZ to DEL?
De-icing RULZ!!!
25 Xkorpyoh: ...and it seems that indians love Switzerland for vacation and honeymoons. I have noticed that many dream sequences in Bollywood movies happen in the
26 Cslusarc: Is the new Canada-India bilateral in effect? If it is there may me a second 763 flight to India in the works. A stop with fifth freedom rights in ARN
27 AC787: Does this info perhaps signal that AC might also be moving away from there hopes of opening a YYZ-Bombay nonstop in favor of a one stop? If Dehli wasn
28 Mrniji: and I am Panju Hindu: So I should count at least 1/2 Sadhar
29 Shawnnyc: Totally different routes. YYZ-DEL is mostly low yield family traffic. YYZ-BOM would have more higher yielding business traffic. After NYC, YYZ with 3
30 YVRSR: As has been mentioned previously in this thread, I think the change has to do with AC making committments for their A343s on other routes. A differenc
31 COSPN: Good News for CO they will offer 1 stop in Oct YYZ-EWR-DEL
32 Aseem: you mean to say that I am one of those lucky guys who flew A345 DEL-YYZ over the North Pole. cheers!! VT-ASJ
33 Swisswings: Hurray! Welcome back to Zurich, Air Canada. We have been missing the AC service from Zurich to Toronto in winter and I am happy to see the Maple Leaf
34 AndersNilsson: Congatulations to the photographers in ZRH. We in Stockholm would have loved to see AC on their way to and from DEL. Their A340-300Xs made some fuelst
35 AC787: Is there any chance of AC using ZRH to serve other routes in India or the middle east or is this just a one time thing? What does everyone think?
36 STARalliance24: Its a one time thing. If they do go to middle east like dubai (which would be great) I think they would stop at London or something like that.
37 Karan69: Dont forget me too and i am more than 1/2 sardar. I too feel its a one time thing, they could do something similar to AI and operate YVR--LHR--ATQ.--
38 Aseem: Karan!! could you please explain what is more than half, and less than full Sardar? If you'd have said you're just a Sardar, it'd have been enough!!!
39 JCS17: It's marketed as a one-stop flight, but there will be an aircraft change in EWR.
40 Diesel33: I thought CO82 was scheduled IAH-EWR-DEL? Diesel33
41 Karan69: Those who have met me know why i said that Since CO will require atleast 2 aircrafts for the route which routes would stop getting the 777 sevices an
42 CXYYZ: It's good for CO because they'll be competitive in the number of stops en-route, but it requires going through US customs, which is a big hassle that
43 Aseem: here is the news article which more of less confirms it. This report also makes the same mistake of ref the current schedule as thrice weekly, or has
44 Feroze: It was confirmed in the press release that AC put out, which was given in Reply #1 on a biz.yahoo link: http://micro.newswire.ca/release.cgi...ey=1307
45 Swisswings: CXYYZ - I was in fact referring to the ZRH-DEL route, not to the ZRH-YYZ one. LX never served YYZ while SR did for some years before focusing on YUL
46 Gerardo: No it doesnt. Well, as I understand it, we will have two daily AC B763 at ZRH. The one coming from Toronto, which continues to DEL and the one coming
47 ZRH: I think these are the first results of Swiss being soon a member of Star Alliance. As I read today, Swiss and Air Canada will codeshare on all flights
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