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Flying FRA-HAV... What Does The US Say?  
User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3509 posts, RR: 29
Posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3291 times:

Last year I flew Fra-Hav with Condor (200€ including all taxes for both ways  Smile ).

While it was a great flight, I was really surprised that we flew the standard North American Track system, so that we flew over Canada and the US, flying over Norfolk and directly over Miami to Cuba. It took us 25 minutes to get from Miami to Cuba (I guess it takes quite longer if you live in Miami  Smile ), and already from the air you could see the big contrast between both countries.

My question is, are airplanes free to pass US airspace to go to Cuba? I know that international agreements in place allow airplanes to pass other countries, but I was still very surprised that we were allowed to pass the US on our way to Cuba. Please do not make this into a political threat, but why were we allowed to fly over the US?


Michael

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineStarFlyer From Germany, joined Sep 2002, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
but why were we allowed to fly over the US?

Why wouldn't you? There are regular airline operations between the US and Cuba. Canadian airlines are also free to overfly the US on their way to Cuba. I just doubt Cubana would be able to overfly the US...  cheerful 



Yours truly - StarFlyer
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16812 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
My question is, are airplanes free to pass US airspace to go to Cuba? I know that international agreements in place allow airplanes to pass other countries, but I was still very surprised that we were allowed to pass the US on our way to Cuba.

Coming back from vacation our Cancun-EWR flight flew direclty over Western Cuba for a while (nothing much on that side of the island) and then turned North near Havana and straight over the Keys.

US flights pass over Cuba all the time, and Im sure Cubana flights have passed over the US on the way to Canada.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineMarkATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

The only restrictions on flights to Cuba are on Cuban aircraft. Cubana once claimed that they were disadvantaged on YYZ-HAV flights because of ACs ability to overfly the US. Its all part of the US Government policy on Cuba....Which is basically a cold war relic.


"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3250 times:

Even American planes are allowed to fly from the USA to Cuba, of course are these flights not scheduled but charters:


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Photo © Javier F. Bobadilla - Iberian Spotters
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Photo © Thomas D. Mayes, Jr.



Every Cuban who is living in the USA is allowed to visit his relatives in Cuba once a year, and the most comfortable way to get from the USA to Cuba is by plane.

Patrick


User currently offlineMarkATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3234 times:

"Im sure Cubana flights have passed over the US on the way to Canada."

Nope, US airlines have to pay the Cuban Government to overfly Cuba. Due to the sanctions they pay via the ICAO (no direct links with the US company and Cuban Government) in Montreal in Canadian dollars earned in Canada. No US or converted from US funds are allowed to be spent in or to Cuba. There has been son relaxation of these rules to allow people to send money to relatives in Cuba. However not for US companies.



"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
User currently offlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3509 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3205 times:

Thank you for those interesting answers. What happens when Cubana is operating aircraft on wet-lease? Lets say they flew canadian registered A320s (just an assumption), were they allowed to pass the US airspace then?

While I will not comment on the sanctions here, Cuba is a wonderful country really worth visiting. And interestingly enough, US Dollars are accepted everywhere, at least unoffically... after some days, you don't have to pay 4USD for a pizza, you can get 4 pizzas for 1USD  Wink if you know the right places, so it is a rather cheap place to be...


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24813 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3171 times:

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 3):
The only restrictions on flights to Cuba are on Cuban aircraft.

Cubana flies both over the US mainland and also via US oceanic airspace enroute to Europe and within the Caribbean.
There are no current restrictions. If you have access to a flight following system one can see CUB planes traversing US all the time.
Currently there are actually two Cubana planes flying to Canada from Havana and Varedo. Basic routing is overhead MIA>MCO>ATL>PIT>SYR>YUL

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 5):
Due to the sanctions they pay via the ICAO (no direct links with the US company and Cuban Government) in Montreal in Canadian dollars earned in Canada

Actually many US airlines pay Cuban civil aviation directly via the Cubana office in Panama.

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 6):
Thank you for those interesting answers. What happens when Cubana is operating aircraft on wet-lease? Lets say they flew canadian registered A320s (just an assumption), were they allowed to pass the US airspace then?

No restriction as mentioned above.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6778 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3151 times:

"Currently there are actually two Cubana planes flying to Canada from Havana and Varedo. Basic routing is overhead MIA>MCO>ATL>PIT>SYR>YUL"

They don't fly over New York City any more? Wonder why not.


User currently offlineMarkATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3012 times:

Laxintl

Although what you say may be true and my information is outdated, it was true not to long ago...hope you enjoyed your "slam".

As for the new US overflights, are they CU metal or wet lease flights? If they are CU metal than this would have been quite a "thaw" between the two countries. If wet lease they would fall under the rules governing the country who the aircraft is owned/operated by.



"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2993 times:

MarkATL,

Cubana can overfly the US, my dad sees them all the time when he is flying out east. Hes even had to talk to them, and while their english sucks (even for a non-airline pilot) they do fly over the US, they cant land however no matter what.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineMarkATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2975 times:

Cool, thanks for the info. How long has this been going on?


"...left my home in Georgia, 'n headed for the "Frisco" Bay...
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 10):
they cant land however no matter what.

I would guess that excludes emergencies - I really don't think an airport, or the relevant authorities, within the US would respond with "Try getting to Canada or somewhere else, we don't want you here"...

Regards,
Frank



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineNewkai From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2730 times:

According to Wikipedia:

"In 1983, Cubana was prohibited from using United States air-space to operate their flights to Canada, after two of their jets overflew close to American military facilities during two consecutive days. Cubana was given US overflight permission in 1998 in a Bilateral Agreement."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubana


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