DCAflyboy From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 143 posts, RR: 0 Posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11248 times:
Just spoke with a WN employee who gave me some interesting news. Sorry if this is old (been flying a lot and away from the forum) but he told me WN is going to start service out of Harrisburg, PA (MDT). In addition, he told me WN wants out of PHL. TOTALLY out!
He also told me that their fuel hedges expire in August and their bid for Delta's hedges were nixed by GE who outbid them.
As a US employee this brought a huge smile to my face.
Not sure how factual this all is and I would never wish bad news for another airline...ok, maybe except for WN. But after what happened at BWI I can't help but feel some vindication.
I don't think US could actually say they drove WN out of PHL since I don't think it really was their niche, but we sure surprised them when they didn't kill us or see us die off.
Indy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4596 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11169 times:
Here are some guesses...
1. They can't afford to fly into PHL without their hedges.
2. They aren't ready to go head to head with the US/HP final product.
3. They can't get the gate space and/or respect from PHL that they want.
4. The info you were given by the WN employee was just BS.
I'm leaning toward #4. #1 - #2 would be out of character for WN. #3 is a possibility but #4 is most likely.
Quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11049 times:
I remember when WN first started service at PHL, they said in a press release that it was one of their most successful new cities ever. I really don't think anything has changed except the delays have been tough lately and the USAir/AWA merger. Could it be they are making these noises behind the scenes in order to wrangle more gates?
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3308 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10955 times:
Delta doesn't have significant hedges. They sold them last year, thinking that the price of oil had stabilized, and they needed the cash. The higher cost of fuel has more than offset the quick cash infusion they got from the sale.
I'm thinking this is flamebait. Southwest has been happy with the loads at PHL. In fact, I'd say they are even making money at PHL, something US hasn't done in years!
I don't ever take the word of a front line employee as gospel, fact is, they are usually the LAST to know. Usually when a front line employee tells you about alleged new service, company changes, etc, its them telling you what they'd like to see. Sounds to me like made up wishful thinking of a US employee to me.
Totally pull out of SEA? No, they still plan to serve the Seattle market, just looking at flying out of Boeing Field instead, in order to keep costs in line. Again, wishful thinking on somebody's part.
DCAflyboy From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10933 times:
Quoting LambertMan (Reply 8): I'm weary of posting rumors like this, because usually you get powerslammed. Rule of thumb, if it ain't extremely reliable or it doesn't make 100% sense, probably don't post it.
I'd be willing to guess that 90 percent of the postings here are not reliable. But those of us in the industry know that we live and breathe rumors. Everything is rumor until we read about it or see it in the media. The general public usually knows things before we the employees.
Tockeyhockey From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10914 times:
MDT is in no way shape or form an alternative airport to PHL. first of all, it's not even in harrisburg -- it's about 20 miles south toward lancaster. second of all, if you live in philly and you are willing to drive to save money, you drive to BWI, not MDT. the flight choices out of MDT are pretty slim as well.
Isitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10915 times:
I would NOT put 10 cents into this rumor. Why didn't Herb go to Harrisburg in the first place?
WN isn't stupid. They would not study a market, only to pull out in a year or less.
The only short term service was DET and WN gave Detroit three years to lengthen the runway. Detroit did not so WN left that airport.
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10834 times:
I can tell you one part of your story that is definitely false...the expiring hedges in August part.
WN already has significant fuel hedges in place for the remainder of this year, plus continuing into 2006 and 2007. So if WN did leave PHL (which I seriously doubt), it won't be because of the fuel hedges.
DCAflyboy From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10820 times:
Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 13): Totally pull out of SEA? No, they still plan to serve the Seattle market, just looking at flying out of Boeing Field instead, in order to keep costs in line. Again, wishful thinking on somebody's part.
Only 80 miles from BWI! Its also about 2 hours from PHL, what would they gain by doing THAT? Compete against themselves? Fly into Harrisburg to go to PHL? BWI is a better option IMHO....
Is MDT big enough (gate wise) to handle that influx as well??
Quoting LambertMan (Reply 8):
Given WN's strategy of avoiding the congested airport, and add in Harrisburg as a nifty alternative, it could be remotely possible.
ABE is FAR closer to the PHL metro base than MDT... and ABE would draw Northern NJ as well. And not congested... condense gates for other airlines a bit... we have 15 total... and voila.
Quoting Wayfarer (Reply 10): Southwest should not pull out of PHL ... I would say that if WN wants to grow near PHL, they should consider start flying to Wilkes-Barre / Scranton? or Allentown?
AVP (W-B/Scranton) is too far out of civilization (by that I mean the PHL/MDT/RDG/LNS/EWR metros). ABE though always seemed better to me than PHL for an airline like WN... and that was BEFORE I moved here even! ABE would be like another remote NYC airport for WN as well. I'm not a fan of WN, but I honestly think ABE would be a very good match for them, and LVIA would love them for it!
ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10723 times:
If true it would severely damage the almost invincible reputation at Southwest for pulling out of very few markets and routes. This would be a catastrophic blow to a carrier that prides itself in doing a thorough analysis on cities before starting service at them. It is almost mythical, this reputation. So if they do pull out of PHL, gone will be that reputation.
From what I understand, the comparably stellar financial results that Southwest has reported is due to fuel hedges. Once those go away, Southwest starts looking like all the other carriers in that regard.
: DCAFlyboy, I've read several of your postings and you don't seem to have much credibility where WN is concerened. All you do is bash and spread misinf
: The FACT remains, US is defending it's territory in PHL tooth and nail. It will not be another BWI. WN hates the fact that they can't kill US. And th
: DCAflyboy, Granted you've only been on A.net since April of this year; but still that's long enough to know better than to post something of this natu
: I meant harrisburg - bwi not harrisburg - PHL
: I'm not saying WN will pull out of PHL totally. Just stating what I was told. I personally don't think they would ever pull out of PHL totally. The a
: I'm curious. Were you really speaking to this employee one-on-one? Or did you over-hear a couple WN employees chatting. A lot of airline employees thi
: Give me a break. This is a forum, not a newspaper. Forum means opinions and discussions. So get off your high horse.
: Me too. ABE has more gates (15 v 12) as well. A WN operation needs a few gates.