Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
NW Starting FNT-LAS  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32574 posts, RR: 72
Posted (9 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3967 times:

Northwest will launch Flint-Las Vegas service on 20 August 2005. It will be seasonal through 29 October 2005. I won't even bother posting the schedule, I'll just post airTran's schedule:

FL 776 LAS 0800-1450 FNT xTuWe
FL 771 FNT 1530-16353 LAS xTuWe

Now, replace those flight numbers with "NW 1927/1928" and you have Northwest's schedule on the service. The same exact schedule as airTran.

[Edited 2005-07-13 15:54:49]


a.
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2489 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3949 times:

Well at least you can say that they are predictable. Kind of reminds me of what they did to F9 with their MSP-LAX service. NW and FL are slugging it out at IND as well.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3891 times:

What equipment is NW using on the flights?

User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3886 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3872 times:

It's called competition... we have that here in the US. And they're using 319s.


AZJ


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2489 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3852 times:

"It's called competition... we have that here in the US. And they're using 319s"

I agree it's competition, but running the flights at the exact same time when NW wasn't already on the route is more than competition. They are sending a message.


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3791 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3832 times:

Watching NW do stuff is great, if only i had some popcorn.

I wonder how their loads will be, along with airtrans.


User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2415 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

Skyteam has it loaded:

Daily except Tuesdays:

Flight Northwest Airlines 1927
Depart Flint Bishop MI US (FNT) Terminal
Departure Time 3:30 PM
Arrive Las Vegas NV US (LAS) Terminal 1
Arrival Time 4:40 PM
Duration 4 hours, 10 minutes
Meal
Aircraft Type 319
-------------------
Flight Northwest Airlines 1928
Depart Las Vegas NV US (LAS) Terminal 1
Departure Time 8:00 AM
Arrive Flint Bishop MI US (FNT) Terminal
Arrival Time 2:50 PM
Duration 3 hours, 50 minutes
Meal
Aircraft Type 319



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2415 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3777 times:

Interesting......

r/t, depart Aug 20 - return Aug 27:

NWA.com $267.41
AirTran.com $218.40



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3704 times:

Tjwgrr...

If you're booking that I'd wait a week or two longer. As the battle continues those fares might get shockingly low.


Would a CRJ or an Avro have had the legs to make that run?? Or even a DC9, I doubt it, but just wondering really? A319 seems like alot of plane for a run that probably won't be very full because of the high capacity that'll be offered with 2 competing flights running wing-tip to wing-tip basically. Or is the A-319 because of flights that will be running in from MSP/DTW, etc. already?

Interesting that FL thinks they can beat NW by 5 minutes on the way out there, but NW and them run neck and neck for the trip back. I guess it'll all depend on who can load/push back first though.

Ready... Get set... Go!  checkeredflag 


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2489 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3691 times:

You would think that the FNT flight might cannabalize a few passengers that might have made the drive to DTW and depart from there.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3681 times:

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 9):
You would think that the FNT flight might cannabalize a few passengers that might have made the drive to DTW and depart from there.

Yes totally.

Also keep in mind the one who will be affected as well is Alligent out of LAN, these are much better flight times and also FF flyer programs are a draw. Both carriers should do fine. Remember at one time two different tour operators ran charters to LAS from DTW using L1011's 4 days a week, 2 flights a day and filled the planes with no problem.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3886 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

People from the northern suburbs drive to FNT and avoid metro. Why drive from to DTW when you can fly sometimes cheaper from FNT and avoid the hassles of the larger metro?

This won't canabalize traffic from DTW. Priced right and timed right, this flight can be successful just as the Florida routes NWA runs from FNT. Just like IND and MKE aren't canabalizing DTW, MSP and MEM.


AZJ


User currently offlineGRRTVC From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 273 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3630 times:

This should be interestng to see how NW makes out. Both will probably do alright on the route. FL has a loyal base in these markets as does NW. I can't see too many FF's jumping ship just to fly on the other guy. (probably just stated the obvious.)

What is sort of more interesting here; I don't believe FL is out to "attack" NW so much as they are seeing markets that can sustain direct service, i.e. FNT-MCO, CAK-BOS, etc. I think NW sees merit in this type of business model and is trying to make use of spare metal to make a few extra bucks and if the route can sustain itself then they will keep it.

In a nutshell I think you will see a trend across the industry of airlines starting to serve more direct routes and reduce the hub and spoke system. May be as much as 60% hub traffic and 40% direct service. If a route can sustain itself, why not?

Just as a side note, Joe Leonard once was a Exec at NW along with a couple of other FL Execs. Hmmmm!

GRRTVC


User currently offlineMlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3619 times:

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 11):

This won't canabalize traffic from DTW. Priced right and timed right, this flight can be successful just as the Florida routes NWA runs from FNT. Just like IND and MKE aren't canabalizing DTW, MSP and MEM.

The great part, from a MKE-based traveller, is that you almost ALWAYS get EUA'd in the standard window, so upgrades are great. With such proximity to DTW, I could see some golds driving to FNT to score an upgrade  Smile



I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
User currently offlineGRRTVC From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 273 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3612 times:

My only suggestion to NW (like I have any input) is to start looking at other city pairs rather then following FL around. Hint GRR-LAS, FNT-LGA, FNT-EWR, etc.

GRRTVC


User currently offlineMlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3577 times:

Quoting GRRTVC (Reply 12):
Just as a side note, Joe Leonard once was a Exec at NW

And Eastern too...when he had security guards surrounding his house, and Frank Borman wore a bulletproof vest  Smile



I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3791 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3532 times:

i have to ask.... Who here thinks NW would even research this route if AirTran never announced it?

User currently offlineFavre From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 595 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3514 times:

it was decided long ago about fnt-las as well as grr-las which is also coming soon...i posted that info last year...


BAE 146 ARJ CV-580 YS-11 SH360 DASH8 SAAB340 EMB 120-135-145-175 DC9/10/30/40/50 MD80/90 DC10 717 727 737 747 757 767 77
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3503 times:

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 11):
This won't canabalize traffic from DTW. Priced right and timed right, this flight can be successful just as the Florida routes NWA runs from FNT. Just like IND and MKE aren't canabalizing DTW, MSP and MEM.


AZJ

They most certainly will draw from the DTW market, especially the price sensative travelers and areas close to FNT that would have driven to DTW to snag a nonstop.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3090 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3497 times:

I remember when Favre posted this last year, and I doubted - I'm a Believer now.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 49
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3478 times:

Also up until recently all of these markets, DTW, FNT, GRR and LAN all ust to support dedicated charter flights to LAS! Now except for DTW and LAN they are all gone from the market.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7505 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3475 times:

Quoting Favre (Reply 17):
it was decided long ago about fnt-las as well as grr-las which is also coming soon...i posted that info last year...

I'll second that. You said it was coming last year, but it was put on the back burner for the time being.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 8):
Would a CRJ or an Avro have had the legs to make that run?? Or even a DC9, I doubt it, but just wondering really? A319 seems like alot of plane for a run that probably won't be very full because of the high capacity that'll be offered with 2 competing flights running wing-tip to wing-tip basically. Or is the A-319 because of flights that will be running in from MSP/DTW, etc. already?

No, the CRJ, Avro, & DC-9 would never be able to make it anywhere close to LAS. They can't even really make DEN from DTW/FNT (although dopy United did have a CR7 on DTW-DEN during last ski season). The A319, isn't that big, its 125 seats, almost the same as the DC-9-50 which seats 124.

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 11):
People from the northern suburbs drive to FNT and avoid metro. Why drive from to DTW when you can fly sometimes cheaper from FNT and avoid the hassles of the larger metro?

This won't canabalize traffic from DTW. Priced right and timed right, this flight can be successful just as the Florida routes NWA runs from FNT. Just like IND and MKE aren't canabalizing DTW, MSP and MEM.

NW should have no problem with these flights and it will not significantly canabalize DTW. FNT has been rapidly expansion since its positioned closer to the rapdly growing area of North Oakland County and the US-23 corridor. Plus, this flight will pull in from other areas of Mid-Michigan including Lansing, Midland/Saginaw/Bay City, etc. Its LAS!!!! Seriously, you can fill an aircraft from most medium/large sized cities.

NW is getting a little tired of Air Tran being the cat's meow in Flint. Hence why the Florida flights last year. Its likely there will be CRJ service to LGA & DCA before too long from FNT.


User currently offlineMlsrar From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1417 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3419 times:

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 20):
Also up until recently all of these markets, DTW, FNT, GRR and LAN all ust to support dedicated charter flights to LAS! Now except for DTW and LAN they are all gone from the market.

I believe a large part of the reason those are vacant is Funjet's inability to find a suitable charter carrier. When ATA stopped doing charters, Funjet, with a large charter presence in MKE went to YX. You can even book YX flights at funjet.com for a discount.

TransMeridian and Allegiant are selective about their markets, so I don't think it has to do with the lack of traffic from the two cities.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 21):
Plus, this flight will pull in from other areas of Mid-Michigan including Lansing, Midland/Saginaw/Bay City, etc. Its LAS!!!! Seriously, you can fill an aircraft from most medium/large sized cities.

This is so true. Look at RFD. TransMeridian and Hooters both have n/s flights to LAS from there. Allegiant has fared well in MSN. Couple NW's flight with some nwaworldvacation.com promos, and you could sell that flight out year-round.

Not to mention, it would open up award availability connecting through DTW to FNT  Smile



I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
User currently offlineVegasplanes From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 778 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3337 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 21):
No, the CRJ, Avro, & DC-9 would never be able to make it anywhere close to LAS. They can't even really make DEN from DTW/FNT

I recall flying on a Republic DC9 on the DTW-LAS-DTW route in the mid-1980's. Are you sure that the 9 would not have the legs to run FNT-LAS or GRR-LAS.

Also Allegiant uses the Mad Dogs on the LAS-LAN runs, granted it is a MD-80 not a DC9.


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

If AirTran drops the flight, I wonder how long before NW does as well.

25 Quickmover : Didn't Ozark fly dc9s STL-SAN?
26 Flyinryan99 : I honestly don't think that would happen. As stated above, FNT - LAS is a very good market and will be able to support itself even if FL drops the fl
27 MAH4546 : If airTran drops the flight, Northwest will too, make no mistake about it. Happened with FLL-FNT, will happen with LAS-FNT if FL decides to drop it (
28 Quickmover : LAS seems to be developing into a good market for FL as well as FNT. ATL-LAS 3X DFW-LAS 3X CAK-LAS 1X FNT-LAS 1X I would bet more LAS flights are on t
29 Post contains images Flyinryan99 : Gosh...getting out of the airlines has hurt my knowledge....I didn't know that both had dropped FLL...Yikes! I didn't know NW flew FNT - DFW Were bot
30 Luv2fly : Airtran tried TOL twice and no luck.
31 Flyinryan99 : Northwest silly! AirTran wouldn't touch TOL again, no reason to, bigger fish to fry. It would be nice to see NW regain the share they used to have he
32 MAH4546 : Both were Saturday only on nearly the same exact schedule. However, because of strong bookings, the FLL-FNT flight operated daily between January and
33 Travelin man : I totally agree with you MAH, that NW would drop the flight like a hot potato if FL dropped it. It happened with LAX-DEN, in addition to the examples
34 KcrwFlyer : why if they were doing so well?
35 MAH4546 : Because airTran dropped the flight. There was nothing left to protect, so they might as well send passengers through Detroit. The flight did well, I
36 PSU.DTW.SCE : FLL-FNT, since it was operated with a DC-9 was pushing it to the limits. On several occasions, a fuel stop in TYS was required. I doubt this flight wi
37 Tornado82 : For a struggling company in a struggling industry... is going into a market where you'll have to have very low fares to beat the LCC competition a wis
38 Post contains images KcrwFlyer : NW.. protecting.. naaaaa.
39 Luv2fly : IF only airlines thought this way. This fighting market share in low yield markets has got to stop. Pick your battles just a little bit better.
40 Broncoguy : Wow, That was kinda quick, just last week I was asking who would start new routes from FNT, well, now I know at least one... Think there are more in t
41 KarlB737 : Here is a possible answer.
42 Isitsafenow : PSU.DTW.S.....the TYS stop was because routing didn't route the model 30's with extra range tanks on the route. Sometimes they did it right and DID pu
43 PSU.DTW.SCE : AirTran has repetively applied for a SCASD grant (small community air service development) from FNT to start service to BWI & LGA and every time has b
44 MAH4546 : Small correction, but airTran has never applied for an SCASD grant. Flint has, and airTran has supported it, but airlines can't apply for the route.
45 Access-Air : Ozark Bought a couple Longer range DC9-34LRs for the STL-LAS runs..I think they were N927L and N928L.....The LR meaning they had extra fuel tanks for
46 NWrr : Hmmm...like NW would ever put capacity onto an unneeded route just because another airline did in orer to protect market share. Oh. Wait. There was th
47 Post contains images Mlsrar : Are you serious? There is a DTW-FLL on a -9 currently in the schedule. It's paid off in MKE. I presume IND is doing well, though I have nothing to ba
48 Isitsafenow : MISRAR..on moving to a LAN-DCA, NW did. They no longer fly the LAN-IAD. They have one RT a day lv LAN around 6 or 7am, return in the evening. VEGASPLA
49 Post contains links KarlB737 : The Press Release - Northwest Announces FNT to LAS http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050714/cgth039.html?.v=16
50 KDTWFlyer : I think it is odd that the flights aren't scheduled into the winter season.. it seems as thought that time period (NOV-APR) would have higher demand
51 Isitsafenow : I think those are the world perk promotion dates...thru OCT 29 safe
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
NW And FNT/GRR/MSN/FSD/FAR/DSM-LAS posted Mon Oct 17 2005 03:35:11 by Iowaman
NW Dropping MKE-LAS/LAX/MCO posted Sun Oct 29 2006 22:30:23 by Knope2001
NW Starts FAR-LAS posted Sat Sep 10 2005 21:23:55 by N908AW
Any Chance At NW Starting CID-MEM? posted Sun Jun 26 2005 21:01:04 by Iowaman
NW Starting MIA-IND posted Sun Jan 16 2005 21:17:56 by MAH4546
Anyone Know When DH Is Starting Its LAS Service? posted Mon Jan 10 2005 03:25:17 by Malaysia
NW Starting A-330 At PDX posted Sun Aug 29 2004 01:37:51 by Cschleic
JetBlue Starting JFK-LAS Jan 7th posted Mon Nov 4 2002 14:29:00 by Airwarrior
Possibility Of NW BLV-LAS? posted Sat Sep 24 2005 22:48:13 by Frontiercpt
NW Nonstop LAS-MSN?!?!? posted Sat Sep 24 2005 02:51:15 by Frontiercpt