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Why Is The IAE V2500 So Successful On The A320?  
User currently onlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3599 posts, RR: 29
Posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9159 times:

I just read that the IAE V2500 has a marketshare of more than 80% (don't know if it is correct) of all engines sold to the A320.

If this number is correct, why is it so successful? Is it a better engine, or is IAE forced to sell the engines and spare parts cheaper, because it cannot sell its engines to the 737?

Michael

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9145 times:

I would be extremely surprised if this turns out to be true. AFAIK the engine of choice for most operators of the A320 is the CFM56.

regards,
Jan

[Edited 2005-07-14 16:52:44]

User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9128 times:

Is it because it offers better performance on hot and high places?



Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9112 times:

F9 has CFM56's on all their 39 A319's and Denver is absolutely hot and high.

User currently offlineEnginesRUs From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9091 times:

That was only true of last year - overall IAE has slightly less than half of the A320 market, which isn't bad considering that it started out several years behind CFM. The V2500s have slightly better fuel burn, the CFMs have slightly better maintenance costs, and in the end it all washes out.

User currently offlinePADSpot From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9088 times:

U2, LH, AF, AB they all fly (or ordered) CFM56s on their large A320-fleets ...

User currently offlineMilan320 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 869 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9085 times:

AC uses CFM56 on all their A320 I believe, too! Not that it's exactly that hot here  Smile
/Milan320



I accept bribes ... :-)
User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9058 times:

I definitely don't believe that figure of 80% market share for the V2500 on the A320 Family.


I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9031 times:

Quoting BrightCedars (Reply 7):
definitely don't believe that figure of 80% market share for the V2500 on the A320 Family.

Its probably calculated from the point where the engine was offered, not from the get go of the A320 program.

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9019 times:

V2500 may be a slightly more modern engine, but the CFM56 offers more commonality with the 737 and A343, which will be factor for many airlines (e.g. Easyjet has a large fleet of 737NGs and A319s both with the CFM56.


it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineGearup From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 578 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9003 times:

Quoting Milan320 (Reply 6):
AC uses CFM56 on all their A320 I believe, too! Not that it's exactly that hot here

I don't know where in Canada you live Milan320 but the humidex in Toronto is 42 degrees C today, gasp!  hot 



I have no memory of this place.
User currently offlineRampRat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1537 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8968 times:

I wish our fleet of A319/320's had the CFM56 engines. My lungs have been sucking burned engine oil smoke from the V2500's for the last 12 years. I have written our Safety department many times about this. They keep saying it's not hazardous. Yeah right!  Yeah sure

User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8948 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Thread starter):
F9 has CFM56's on all their 39 A319's and Denver is absolutely hot and high.

true, dut does it matter when theres a 16,000 ft. runway in the mix?


User currently offlineTnsaf From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 123 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8850 times:

I believe the LH A321 fleet has V2500s. I think one of the reasons they went that way was to add that engine to the portfolio of LHT. 80% is not correct, but they have been a stronger competitor at least splitting the market in the last few years.


700 hours and counting...
User currently offlineJfrworld From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 365 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8831 times:

HP has the V2500's on their 50+ A320's and 30+ A319's. I don't know if that means it is better in hot/high conditions. I know that hot/high performance has been a major factor in HP decisions in the past (757 over A321, etc).

User currently onlineTheSonntag From Germany, joined Jun 2005, 3599 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8822 times:

I took the quote from Wikipedia.de, so there is no guarantee I am right. In fact, I have never flown IAE A320s yet, as Germanwings, LH, EZY all use CFMs.

Michael


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 8730 times:

IAE won 80% of orders last year, yes. The overall totals are much more even.

And the engine does offer superior takeoff performance.

That being said, the CFM engine wins a lot of deals in Europe because of its much superior emissions profile.

N


User currently offlineNDSchu777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 419 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8627 times:

Don't know where you're getting your data from (maybe it was just one year of sales), but the 80% of the market is completely off. Just take a look at the websites for the IAE, CFM, and Airbus.
http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a320/
http://www.cfm56.com/engines/stats.html
http://www.i-a-e.com/engine/market.shtm

For the A320 family, there are 2483 delivered A/C (according to Airbus) of which 1362 are CFM-powered (according to CFM) and 1129 are IAE powered (according to IAE). Now the totals don't come out exact due to the different times each website updates their data (IAE listing + CFM listing = Airbus listing-2), but since they're close enough, this amounts to CFM with 55% of the current market and IAE with 45%. Now as deliveries increase, IAE's share will definitely increase due to their backlog, but not to 80%.

~Nick


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8597 times:

Quoting KL808 (Reply 8):
Its probably calculated from the point where the engine was offered, not from the get go of the A320 program.

It was offered quite early in the A320 program

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 12):
true, dut does it matter when theres a 16,000 ft. runway in the mix?

In DEN, it does not really matter all that much. It does matter out of PHX, LAS and the like, even though they both have very long runways (particularly LAS)



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineCactusTECH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8477 times:

If you have notice A320 operators with IAE are the ones that use them on hot weather and/or high altitudes, it has better performance than the CFM

User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8458 times:

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 15):
I took the quote from Wikipedia.de, so there is no guarantee I am right. In fact, I have never flown IAE A320s yet, as Germanwings, LH, EZY all use CFMs.

LH bought the V2500 for the A321 fleet. So you can fly one of those in Germany.

Both are great engines, the CFM56 is legendary nowadays for versatility and reliability on all its platforms. But I still love the growl of the V2500!


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8264 times:

I think its 60%-40% in favour of CFM56B over V2500.
However out here All A320s are opting for V2500,mainly because of Mx requirements personnel wise.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4682 posts, RR: 46
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8255 times:

I think it's because of the rrrrrrrawwwwwwwrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrawwwwwwwwwwwwwrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr sound they make on departure.....


"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlineSU184 From Egypt, joined Feb 2004, 236 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8223 times:

Quoting Tnsaf (Reply 13):
I believe the LH A321 fleet has V2500s. I think one of the reasons they went that way was to add that engine to the portfolio of LHT. 80% is not correct

You're absolutely right, but LH ordered V2500's for A320's as first, then switched to CFM56's after the engine failed to meet performance and dates guarantees, after fixes were made, they ordered it for their A321's as it seems to be performing better in higher power ratings, then back to CFM on their A319's. The selling point for V2500's is price/support package, as these engines are required to be removed from the wings after only 4000hrs, word of maintenence people.


User currently offlineMilan320 From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 869 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7775 times:

Quoting Gearup (Reply 10):
don't know where in Canada you live Milan320 but the humidex in Toronto is 42 degrees C today, gasp!

Man, that is hot. I'm in Sweden on contract these days, but I remember when I left Montreal a month ago it was a hot hell hole. I recall friends saying from Toronto that it was pretty much the same there ... perhaps Airbus should do some hot weather testing should in Toronto/Montreal  Smile

/Milan320



I accept bribes ... :-)
25 Milan320 : What about the A319CJ then? I recall that it was offered before only with the IAE engines, but now customers have a choice of CFM or IAE engines. Whic
26 Tom_EDDF : I think LH also changed their mind on the V2500 after the SuperFan desaster. Initially, LH opted for the V2500 for their A320 series aircraft and the
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