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FlyBE Launch Customer For ERJ-195  
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5001 times:

Hi all,

After reading this months Airliner World, i noticed that the launch customer for the ERJ-195 will be FlyBE at a total cost of $870 million for 26 aircraft. They are due to begin delivery to the airline in August 2006.

They were also looking at A319 and B737 aircraft, but the ERJ-195 proved to be the best option.

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So, why choose the ERJ-195 over the A319. Isn't the A319 more fuel efficiant? Although, the ERJ-195 carries more PAX...?

Thanks
Mike

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4969 times:

The main reason for FlyBE choosing the EMB-195 is because it has commonality with all the other EMB fleet members (-170, -175, -190). The seating range that is important for FlyBE is from 70 up to 110, perhaps 120. The EMB family allows FlyBE to replace their Bae-146s with planes in the same size, but with a significantly better range than the 4-holer RJs. The A319 would be far too big for their needs. Not to forget that the EMB family will also allow them to fly into airports with them where the A319 couldn't land, like LCY.

User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4964 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 1):
Not to forget that the EMB family will also allow them to fly into airports with them where the A319 couldn't land, like LCY.

Erm... As a matter of fact, the A319 can fly to LCY and the airport authorities are planning on allowing it in so they can get flights to farther away destinations.

Apart from that, thanks for answering why they choose the ERJ. Their BAE 146's are getting a bit old.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlineLegacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4940 times:

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Thread starter):
Isn't the A319 more fuel efficiant?

I don't think so. I don't have the exact numbers now with me, but I remember that the ERJ 195 is about 10 tons lighter versus the A319. As weight means economy.... not to forget that normally a strech brings economy, meanwhile a shrink does the opposite. The ERJ 195 is a wonderful strech  Wink


User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4927 times:

It makes me wonder.....
jetBlue says, (in so many words) that the Jungle Jets are set to revolutionize domestic air travel in North America.

So with that in mind.
We hear a lot of talk about Southwest needing a larger aircraft, or a bigger version of the 737...namely the -800 or -900, but what about the other end of the sprectrum?
Wouldn't Southwest be able to realize some amount of efficiencies with a smaller jet? Because someday, they will max out on the potential markets with their current fleet.
An Embraer might also be a more able-bodied equipment choice for the smaller of their stations...Texas and a few other places come to mind.
And since "Growth" is what every company is looking for, would they not be more able; with a hundred or so E175s in the fleet; to better equipped at making the push into markets to small for the 737s; like MGM, MSN, PWM, BTV, CID, BIL, etc, etc. (just random places pulled from the top of my head...)



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User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4861 times:

Quoting Legacy135 (Reply 3):

Hey,

Ok, thanks for clearing up. I just wasn't sure exactly.

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):

Well, i only know of Alitalia, Finnair, FlyBE, Jet Blue, Swiss and US Airways ordering the ERJ-170/175/190/195 but i am sure there are many, many more.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlineFlycro From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4831 times:

Flybe are supposed to be launching 12 new routes from SOU as they introduce these new aircraft, any ideas where these new destinations will be?

User currently offlineGofly From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 1727 posts, RR: 38
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4819 times:
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Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
So with that in mind.
We hear a lot of talk about Southwest needing a larger aircraft, or a bigger version of the 737...namely the -800 or -900, but what about the other end of the sprectrum?
Wouldn't Southwest be able to realize some amount of efficiencies with a smaller jet? Because someday, they will max out on the potential markets with their current fleet.

Probably not in the near future, as one of the key concepts in Southwest's business plan, is to operate only one type of aircraft. This allows to save on maintenance costs etc.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

-Gofly



Living the high life on my ex-Airliners.net Moderator pension...
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4763 times:

Quoting Flycro (Reply 6):

Well, i beleive they will operate routes to some of their "Holiday" destinations.

Quoting Gofly (Reply 7):

Ahh, that means that they only need to order parts for a particular aircraft.

Makes sense.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11690 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4722 times:

FlyCro, MAH is also likely to be one of their new destinations. Until recently the Island refused to allow any airlines considering themselves to be LCC to use the airport as it would bring the 'lesser tourist' to the island. There already is Helvetic, Air Berlin ect... and they have finally lifted all restrictions, this summer EZY is running some flights and FlyBe has shown an interest in getting slots there in the past.

Dan Smile



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4678 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 9):
Until recently the Island refused to allow any airlines considering themselves to be LCC to use the airport as it would bring the 'lesser tourist' to the island.

That's short sighted. Some people don't want to spend money on the 3 hour flight when they could spend it instead in food and hotels.

Look at MCO. Lot's of cheap flights, but Disney and Universal are expensive destinations. Many of the people staying at the cheap, off-sight resorts drive to Orlando. It's the cheap flights that bring in many of the $300 a night hotel customers...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4620 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 10):

I agree, but FlyBE are a really good airline. They are pretty cheap.

Just like any airline, the better deal you get is when you book more advanced.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4514 times:

I think that they chose chose ERJ because of salaries for a main line airliners such as 737's or A320 family are more expensive that those of reginoal jets.

How long are the 737's leased for?


User currently offlineLUV4JFK From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4478 times:

I'm surprised Dogfighter2111 did not get castrated for calling it an ERJ (regional jet).  faint  My God! Next there won't be any A vs B arguments!  crazy 

LUV4JFK
 yes 



John F. Kennedy International Airport: Where America Greets The World.
User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 4448 times:

I snapped these at the Paris Air Show:






NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineHiFi From Brazil, joined Apr 2005, 192 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4439 times:

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 5):
Well, i only know of Alitalia, Finnair, FlyBE, Jet Blue, Swiss and US Airways ordering the ERJ-170/175/190/195 but i am sure there are many, many more.

From the top of my mind: Air Canada, LOT, Paramount Airways (leased from GECAS), Republic (to operate for Delta), Chautaqua (to operate for United), Hong Kong Express, Copa, Saudi Arabian Airlines, Cirrus, ...

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 1):
The A319 would be far too big for their needs. Not to forget that the EMB family will also allow them to fly into airports with them where the A319 couldn't land, like LCY.

The E170 will be able to operate in LCY... Not the E190. At least not for now.



no commercial potential
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13453 posts, RR: 100
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4356 times:
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Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 1):
The seating range that is important for FlyBE is from 70 up to 110, perhaps 120.

Really? Is it due to frequency or does FlyBe aim for smaller markets that have been overlooked?

Quoting Stirling (Reply 4):
Wouldn't Southwest be able to realize some amount of efficiencies with a smaller jet? Because someday, they will max out on the potential markets with their current fleet.

Yes. There has been talk about Southwest going with a ~100 seater as about half of their flights would be more profitable with a smaller jet. While I hope to see an E190 is WN's colors, I do not expect it for a few years. WN doesn't seem interested in debugging a new type. And... they'll be able to get a good deal. (Let's face it, if WN were to buy 100+ E190's or E195's it would convince quite a few "fence sitters" to order Embraers; so much so that Embraer would be wise to sell at cost to WN. But that's only my opinion.

Quoting Gofly (Reply 7):
Probably not in the near future, as one of the key concepts in Southwest's business plan, is to operate only one type of aircraft. This allows to save on maintenance costs etc.

Also true. Southwest will one day have to adopt another aircraft. (If for no other reason the 737 exits production.) However, they will be very conservative on the approach and would most likely buy a 737-900X versus a new type. (They need the seats for LAX and quite a few other runs.) I expect we'll know the answer to the NW DC-9's before the 2nd type for WN. (And yes, in the past WN had 727's, I'm talking 2nd type This millennium !)

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4320 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 16):
Let's face it, if WN were to buy 100+ E190's or E195's it would convince quite a few "fence sitters" to order Embraers; so much so that Embraer would be wise to sell at cost to WN. But that's only my opinion.

No, it makes sense.
It just seems like such a great airplane, I wonder why more have not been ordered? I think the "wait and see" approach is what is happening here; and not just with Southwest.
I can't wait to fly one, but living on the west coast means not for awhile.

Quoting Gofly (Reply 7):
one of the key concepts in Southwest's business plan, is to operate only one type of aircraft. This allows to save on maintenance costs etc.

I am aware of that. However, it is known that the efficiencies gained from such practices diminish as the fleet grows larger.

Since every market is in theory served with the same equipment...not every market performs the same, hence, any savings realized by 'one-type fleet' economics are negated by 'too-big' equipment operated in under-performing markets. (Where a smaller aircraft suited to the demand can run full, as opposed to 60% full.)

I think Southwest operating a smaller type is only a matter of time.
Never say "Never" with these guys.
They were never going to fight Wright.
They would have never operated into the delay prone Northeast, and especially Philadelphia.
They would never fly transcontinentally.

Just when you think you have WN figured out, they go and change the rules.
It's what makes them the most profitable airline going, their ability to adapt to the changing market place.

To these eyes...3 years, when there's about 300 Jungle Jets out there will we see something...then Boeing will be sorry it cancelled the 717. (But. Probably not though, since they'll do just fine with the mid capacity/mid to long-range market - which is good - they can't be all things to all customers.)



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User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4169 times:

I certainly hope that the ERJ-195's will get approved to fly into LCY. They would be a great site landing in the heart of the city.

Thanks
Mike

P.S.

Quoting LUV4JFK (Reply 13):
I'm surprised Dogfighter2111 did not get castrated for calling it an ERJ (regional jet). My God! Next there won't be any A vs B arguments!

LUV4JFK

When did i say that?


User currently offlineLuke From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4138 times:

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 18):
I certainly hope that the ERJ-195's will get approved to fly into LCY. They would be a great site landing in the heart of the city.

Flybe don't fly into LCY anyway so you would have to wait for another airline to order the E195.


User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4091 times:

Quoting Luke (Reply 19):

Yeah, i know. I was just saying that they would be a great site in LCY.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4086 times:

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 18):
Quoting LUV4JFK (Reply 13):
I'm surprised Dogfighter2111 did not get castrated for calling it an ERJ (regional jet). My God! Next there won't be any A vs B arguments!

LUV4JFK


When did i say that?

Here - - - -

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Thread starter):
After reading this months Airliner World, i noticed that the launch customer for the ERJ-195

ERJ - is Embraer Regional Jet.

7LBAC111



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1904 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4057 times:

Quoting Stirling (Reply 17):
then Boeing will be sorry it cancelled the 717. (But. Probably not though, since they'll do just fine with the mid capacity/mid to long-range market - which is good - they can't be all things to all customers.)

They are better off not having it in line. E195 east 717 for breakfast. 717 doesn't have the range, is heavier and burns more fuel... Not to mention more comfortable cabin layout - no middle seat!!



Now get your f***ing Jumbo Jet off my airport!!! - AC/DC "Ain't No Fun To Be a Millionaire"
User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4053 times:

Ohh right, and there is no need to be such an Ass over nothing.

Infact, didn't you start at me in another thread...?

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlineErikwilliam From Brazil, joined Mar 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4058 times:

Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 5):
Well, i only know of Alitalia, Finnair, FlyBE, Jet Blue, Swiss and US Airways ordering the ERJ-170/175/190/195 but i am sure there are many, many more.

Add to that: COPA, Saudi, Air Canada, Cirrus, LOT, Chatauqua, TAME, Paramount, someone in Hong Kong...

Quoting Stirling (Reply 17):
think the "wait and see" approach is what is happening here; and not just with Southwest.

Correct, and NW it´s one of them.

BTW, US did a very bad move by seeling it´s 25 E-170 to Republic. They could use the E-170 in some routes where the A-320´s aren´t beeing 100% efficient, like B6 will do, and make mony with the new plane. They still have 60 deliveries to go, and since they´r getting the plane, they paid a fine, just like Swiss is doing



Dida, Cafu, Lucio, Roque Junior, Roberto Carlo, Emerson, Ze Roberto, Ronaldinho, Kaka, Adriano, Robinho, Ronaldo
25 Dogfighter2111 : Hey, thanks for that. I thought LOT had ordered some but wasn't sure. It is surprising that COPA has ordered any. Thanks Mike
26 Cornish : I believe that LOT were actually the first to receive and operate one of the new EMB range. I think they fly into MAN in the UK for example.
27 7LBAC111 : Yup - i did. And while you continue to post inaccurate BS, like you did in the other thread, I or others will do it again. Use AFAIK and IIRC - that'
28 Dogfighter2111 : Ohh yeah, you are great. People do get things wrong sometimes. I will be posting a reply in the other thread. Thanks Mike
29 Post contains images Erikwilliam : no problem, LOT ordered 6 E-170, all deliverde, and 4 E-175, converted option. COPA had 10 E-190 on order, but converted 2, making it 12 E-190 on ord
30 Dogfighter2111 : ohh, now i remember. I read something about LOT's E-170's in MAN. Thanks Mike
31 Post contains links and images PPVRA : AKA Hong Kong Express : View Large View MediumPhoto © Normando Carvalho Jr. View Large View MediumPhoto © Normando Carvalho Jr. PPVRA[Edited 20
32 Erikwilliam : Hey PP, thx for the pics, I haven´t seen those. Looks nice, they could have done a better job on the paint scheme, but it´s all good, as long as Emb
33 Post contains links and images Dogfighter2111 : Err... Does Hong Kong Express remind anyone of Excel Airways? View Large View MediumPhoto © Normando Carvalho Jr. Thanks Mike
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