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DTW North Terminal Project  
User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 879 posts, RR: 2
Posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5385 times:

I know I've asked about this, but there are new pictures up on metroairport.com site about the new terminal to be built. What are your reactions? I wish you could enlarge the pictures.

http://www.metroairport.com/images/PR_01_1in-50ft_big.gif

http://www.metroairport.com/images/PR_02_1in-50ft_big.gif


LH 442
58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5376 times:
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Having lived and grown up in the DATA area until 1999 I can tell you this, it is a long time coming. I moved to CLUE in late 1999 and was impressed about how nice the CLUE airport was compared to the old DATA airport, now the new NW terminal blows me away!


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8269 posts, RR: 23
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5340 times:

So this will house the rest of the carriers left stranded at the old Smith terminal, huh? DTW's gunna be a hell of an airport when it's all done.... not that it isn't already.


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineBroncoguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5315 times:

That terminal looks really skinny. Is there room for shops and restaurants in this skinny terminal? Imagine walking through there when everyone has flights leaving at the same time.

User currently offlineNWHPDTW From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5303 times:

It looks to me like those widebody gates (left of the diagram) are right on top of Smith concourse C. Are they going to have close concourse C before the new terminal is ready, or are those widebody gates not going to be online when the new terminal opens, or is there something else I'm not seeing?

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5271 times:

Concorse c? Do you mean the old concours C that was torn down or are you talking about the construction at the Worldgateway?

It is my understanding that when the new north terminal is completed, BA, RJ, and LH will move out of the Worldgateway and over to the North Terminal.


User currently offlineNeilalp From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5247 times:

Clipper,

If you look on the photos the red outlines of the current Spirit 'C' councourse are shown under the International gates. My guess is that the new terminal will be built, minus the International gate area, then the Spirit councourse gets taken down, then the Int. gates get created.


User currently offlineFjnovak1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 611 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5223 times:

I think that with Delta's moving over to the World Gateway and their gates opening up, plus the two or so gates open over in the Southwest area of Terminal A, perhaps Spirit could make do over there in the interim..or maybe the int'l gates will just come online later


Go Blue!!
User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 879 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5180 times:

I don't know about the international gates, apparently there will be two immigrations and customs areas in DTW. Sort of ineffective, but I guess the only way. Yes, I think the domestic airlines will move first and then that wing will be built once the old C concourse is demolished. BTW, since frontier arrived, the've taken Delta's old spot, and use their old ticket counter.

The terminal does seem skinny, and it's strange that they are not building it further out on the tarmac for future expansion. The whole back side of the building could pontentially accomodate more gates. Just like NW's McNamara Terminal.



LH 442
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5152 times:

Interesting. This has just changed within a period of a month. Unfortunately I don't have the old design to show you which was just up on the website less than a month ago.

I did a research project on this actually for my class at Embry Riddle and I talked to a few of the people involved with the design of this project. These are some of the facts.

a. will have 27 gates
b. Two of the gates will be for widebodies
c. Will have an FIS facility
D. Gates are going to be divided up this way:
Signatory carriers:
Spirit: 9 gates
Southwest: 3
United: 3
USAirways: 2
America West: 2
American: 3

The other five gates are used by the non signatory and international carriers. They are swing gates with access to the customs area (2 of which are widebody). Spirit will use one for its Cancun and future international flights. Frontier, Indy Air, USA3000 will also use these swing gates since they are non signatory.

The Berry Terminal will be closed and knocked down since it is losing money on a daily basis since it is subsidized by landing fees.

There was an issue with Northwest not wanting an FIS facility in the North Terminal since they are the "800 lb gorilla" at DTW and have a lot of the voting power, however the others were able to convince Northwest that it would help lower its landing fees by moving everything into the new building and demolishing the Berry.

LH,BA and RJ will move to the North Terminal and share the widebody gates. Only Sky Team airlines will use the Midfield Terminal.


User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5128 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 9):
Interesting. This has just changed within a period of a month. Unfortunately I don't have the old design to show you which was just up on the website less than a month ago.

I did a research project on this actually for my class at Embry Riddle and I talked to a few of the people involved with the design of this project. These are some of the facts.

Nascar,

I have the old pics saved, but I can't post them. If you contact me I can send them to you to post or is there someone else who can help with this.

dtwclipper


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5065 times:

Quoting Broncoguy (Reply 3):
That terminal looks really skinny. Is there room for shops and restaurants in this skinny terminal? Imagine walking through there when everyone has flights leaving at the same time.

The span established for each gate permit the narrow concourse. You only need about a 40-50' deep hold room and a 40-50' corridor.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23010 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5047 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 9):
LH,BA and RJ will move to the North Terminal and share the widebody gates. Only Sky Team airlines will use the Midfield Terminal.

Only 2 widebody gates strikes me as a little shortsighted. As it stands now, LH and BA are on the ground at the same time (LH lands at 16:15 and BA lands at 15:50). It sort of screws up non-Skyteam international growth. What if LH wants to add a second daily or a MUC flight, for example? With the flexibilty to build anything, a few more widebody gates would seem prudent.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 879 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5040 times:

Well since the widebody gates are near the "potential future expansion" areas, I guess if that ever became a concern they could quickly build more. But in terms of international traffic, I doubt DTW will see new international traffic outside of skyteam. Exactly what international airlines do you see services DTW. LOT? I think DTW will be a fairly international airport, but with Spirit who is already flying to mexico and carribean, I don't think any new carribean airlines will serve detroit, and aeromexico over mexicana, and they will use the nw worldgateway. THe only other potential airlines, if any would be, and they would be skyteam. AZ, KE and in my dreams SU (whenever they will join). If you have other speculations, please respond.

About how the terminal will be built. I think right now Spirit does not use all of concourse C. They have access to all gates, but not enough flights to use all the gates. So technically, Spirit can use one side of the concourse while the new terminal is being built, and then once built, they move, the pier is destroyed, and the jetways, are added.



LH 442
User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5030 times:

Quoting Cubsrule-Only 2 widebody gates strikes me as a little shortsighted.What you must remember is that in order to get customs at the new terminal, the county had to agree with Northwest demands that for each International gate placed at the new terminal, they had to eliminate two domestic gates. So even with the new terminal that NWA will never use, the 800 pound gorilla still gets its way

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5018 times:

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 14):
So even with the new terminal that NWA will never use, the 800 pound gorilla still gets its way

And what is wrong with NW getting its way @ DTW? With out NW we would be a backwater airport with non-stops to a few hubs. Without NW we would still have just the Davey, Smith and Berry sewers, oh I mean terminals.

With Northwest, we got a world class terminal, non-stops to Asia, Europe, and most everywhere in the US!


All power to the Legacy Carriers


User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5008 times:

Quoting DTWClipper-{With Northwest, we got a world class terminal} And a hell of alot of taxpayer money. Yes NWA paid for 80% of the Midfield, but tell me where that justifies them placing demands on the design of the North terminal. stifling competition is not a good thing for local airfares. Just check all of the studies done on the high costs of flying in this area because of the backdoor deals that Ed McNamara made with NWA. I understand that had it not been for these deals that yes, we probrably would still be stuck with the old terminals, but that still doesn't make it right

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4953 times:

Interesting images.

It looks like it will be quite a long terminal. It will go from near the Berry terminal (in the middle of the old Mesabaland golfcourse) all the way to where concourse C is. Interesting how Spirit & Southwest get the gates closest to the terminal. The widebody gates & AA's will be quite a distance away.


User currently offlineHjulicher From Liechtenstein, joined Feb 2005, 879 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4934 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 17):
The widebody gates & AA's will be quite a distance away.

Yes they will be at the ends of the terminal. But at least there will be two moving walkways in each direction.

Strange though that USairways and AmericaWest are next to eachother. Wouldn't it make sense for America West to switch with United. I know they are partners, but still. At least American will be close to the British airways gate. And the three gates to the left of spirit will go to Independence Air, Frontier, and the charters. Don't some of the charters fly to mexico and stuff, won't they need the swing int'l gates?

There is also room for 5 more gates, so I guess there is adequate room for growth.

I still don't understand though why they made the terminal so long. Is there not enough tarmac for the terminal to be positioned so that gates can be built on either side of the building. Wouldn't this reduce walking times, and allow for more growth if needed. The north terminal sort of reminds me of one of those small airports with a couple of gates, just really long. I hope it doesn't look cheesy inside.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 15):
With out NW we would be a backwater airport with non-stops to a few hubs.

Do you really think that if DTW wasn't NW's hub, we wouldn't be a hub. I just don't see us not being a hub. DTW isn't a perfect location, but it is better than CLE, or CVG. I'm sure some other airline would have chosen DTW if NW hadn't after deregulation. And, we would still be an international airport. BA and LF would have still had flights to DTW, and didn't Delta have an international flight out of DTW.



LH 442
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23010 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4914 times:

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 13):
If you have other speculations, please respond.

With all the connecting traffic to the mid-east (hence the RJ flight), I wouldn't think a MUC flight would be out of the question, especially if LH is forced to grow more at MUC due to the NIMBYs at FRA... the world's getting more populous- it won't be tomorrow or next week or next month, but DTW will get more international service at some point.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4902 times:

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 18):
and didn't Delta have an international flight out of DTW

That was a carry over from Pan Am. They took over DTW-LGW (Pan Am used to fly DTW-LHR, but that is best saved for another thread), but could not support it because they did not have enough O & D traffic out of Detroit, and NW took over the rights.

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 18):

Do you really think that if DTW wasn't NW's hub, we wouldn't be a hub

As a 16-20 year old, you don't remember when DTW wasn't much of a HUB at all.

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 18):
BA and LF would have still had flights to DTW, and didn't Delta have an international flight out of DTW.

BA was not always non-stop, you either stoped in YUL or IAD.

LF has never been to DTW. I think you mean LH.


User currently offlineJoeman From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 731 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4897 times:

Quoting Hjulicher (Reply 18):
Do you really think that if DTW wasn't NW's hub, we wouldn't be a hub. I just don't see us not being a hub. DTW isn't a perfect location, but it is better than CLE, or CVG. I'm sure some other airline would have chosen DTW if NW hadn't after deregulation.

I agree that DTW would undoubtedly have been a hub for some airline if not NW even though it is not a given right. As a matter of fact, it probably would have been for either for DL or CO with DL being the more likely of the two given their prior history there. How is it a better location than CLE which is practically right on top of it or CVG for that matter?


User currently offlineDtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4851 times:

Quoting DTWCLIPPER-As a 16-20 year old, you don't remember when DTW wasn't much of a HUB at all. Well I'm not 20 and I remember when DTW wasn't much of anything,before the Berry and even the Davey for that matter, but there again I remember when I walked up the rear airstairs on a brand new Delta DC-9-10 at ATL because it wasn't anything either or ORD or TPA for that matter,and flying out of DAL because DFW wasn't even built. You can't compare traffic from 25 years ago to any Airport in this country today. I too believe that had NWA not set up shop at DTW then somebody else would have, whether it be AA, DAL, CO,or even Southwest for that matter. The population base of southeast Michigan today is to big to ignore, somebody would have come in. Believe it or not we had more International carriers then, than we do now.Remember we had Pan-Am,AeroMexico,Air Jamaica,Alitalia,British Airways,TWA and NWA all offering Non-stops and connecting service to points throughout Europe and Asia. I'm not trying to argue with you, but you have to compare apples to apples when you speak of the way things used to be, as to what they are today

User currently offlineDtwclipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4827 times:

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 22):
Remember we had Pan-Am,AeroMexico,Air Jamaica,Alitalia,British Airways,TWA and NWA all offering Non-stops and connecting service to points throughout Europe and Asia.

Pan Am, Non-stop to LHR, later LGW, prior to that it was a stop in BOS.

Alitalia? When did AZ have pax service to DTW? Never. The had cargo service to bring over the Cadillac Alliente.

BA, as I said before it was not always non-stop, you either stooped in IAD or YUL.

Air Jamaica....very short lived, same for AeroMexico.

NWA flew to DCA, JFK MSP and a few other points, but DTW was no gateway for them.

UA, AA where the big boys here, but nothing like a hub operation.


Sure, DTW would have been a hub for someone else, but Wayne county would treat them the same as they do NW. NW should get all of the perks it is warranted in Detroit, They have invested a ton of money here.


User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3105 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

I can remember attending the "Open House" for the Smith Terminal. The parking lot for the cars was just gravel. Notice I said lot. There was no deck anywhere. I used to see aircraft fly ONLY on what today is 22L and 9L and their reciprocal ends as well.

It will be weird for me when the Smith Terminal is gone.


25 Dtw9 : Quoting DTWClipper- {Alitalia? When did Alitalia have pax service to Detroit ?Never}. You had better do your homework on that statement. Alitalia flew
26 Dtw9 : DTWClipper- heres a little more info on International service in the early 70's at Metro Aeromexico flight numbers were 432 and 433, BA's were 524 and
27 Broncoguy : How old are the Smith and Berry terminals? Is there a timeline for when this terminal will be completed?
28 Dtw9 : LC Smith-1958 Davey 1966, Berry 1974
29 Broncoguy : Wow, i didnt think that the Smith was that old, I was thinking it was more in the 70's or 80's
30 Dtwclipper : Can you please give me the source on AZ pax service to DTW, if I am wrong I apologize. I can find no mention of it.
31 Dtwclipper : I know Sabena flew to DTW for a short time as well. What do you mean Pan Am were interline with NW? It was not an interchange, they were using their o
32 Dtw9 : Can't remember how they were crewed but clippers 55 and 54 showed on Northwest timetables at the time. Clipper 55 flew on to MSP from DTW and 54 stopp
33 Dtwclipper : This sounds like it was a PA/NW interchange. This I don't remember, but I used to take UA non-stop DC-10 to SFO in the mid-70's. This I just don't re
34 PSU.DTW.SCE : I don't believe there is enough distance between the existing roadway and the parallel taxiway for 4R/22L. In order to have gates on both sides there
35 NASCARAirforce : Yeah I still have the pictures in my research paper I did a few weeks back. I can't post them either. As of right now there isn't a huge demand for i
36 Boeing7E7 : When you remove the hub operation of NWA, DTW would not need more than about 40 gates in total based on the population base, level of tourism and O&D
37 Dtw9 : QuotingNASCARAirforce { I dont recall TWA Europe service.} TWA's Sept 9 1982 system timetable shows flight 700 as being one-stop service to Heathrow.
38 SHUPirate1 : Not strange at all, considering that by the time this terminal is operational, US Airways and America West will be one and the same.
39 NASCARAirforce : Question, will they still need 4 gates? because America West and US Airways are supposed to get 2 gates each.
40 DCA-ROCguy : Glad to see DTW's plans are getting more clearly defined. I too am surprised that the North Terminal is simply linear with parking on one side. It doe
41 NASCARAirforce : Its called Majority in Interest. It doesn't just happen at DTW, it happens at every airport with an 800 lb gorilla Without naming names, as part of m
42 Cubsrule : The point was that with such a large capital investment (i.e. a totally new terminal), it's prudent to build for more than is necessary. Cities of si
43 Hjulicher : I meant to say that they aren't next to eachother. United is between UsAir and America West. I think there is the possibility of adding more widebody
44 PSU.DTW.SCE : Whether you like it or not, the greater Metro Detroit area is not growing, in fact it is slightly strinking. The only growth in the region is due to o
45 Isitsafenow : I would not use the word FACTS. Try plan. The building is still in final DESIGN phase. By the time it opens, some of those carriers may have changed
46 NASCARAirforce : Actually, Southwest I believe only leases four gates at the Smith Terminal, those other two gates (formerly leased by Spirit) are owned by the WCAA (
47 Post contains images Isitsafenow : NASCARairforce...thanks for that update. safe
48 Dtwclipper : Not sure if I agree with that. Metro: 5,456,428 ('00 census) Vs. 5,187,171 ('90 census) shows growth of 269257 in the region. True, the City itself i
49 Post contains links and images Squirrel83 : Below are the new pictures for the New North Terminal at DTW . . . This preliminary design for Metro Airport's new $443-million North Terminal, schedu
50 Dtwclipper : Squirrel83: Thanks for posting the pics, I was only able to post the link 45 min. before. Reply 5, posted Fri Jul 29 2005 13:31:59 UTC+2 and read 16 t
51 7E72004 : That is going to be a nice terminal also...although i don't understand why they did not just build just one new terminal instead of leaving it separat
52 PSU.DTW.SCE : Because NW wanted their own facility and they paid for a significant portion of it. The other carriers are not fronting the money for this project. P
53 Boeing7E7 : I agree, however the close proximity to major hubs decreases the need for widebodies. Most of the non-hub carriers there are making short haul hub ru
54 N766UA : What happens if one has a flight on, say, Spirit and then needs to transfer to a flight on NW to go overseas? They gotta get their bags, exit security
55 Dtwclipper : That would be a very rare thing indeed. First of all, the price of a DTW-NRT ticket would be a lot more then a FLL-DTW-NRT ticket on NW, so not many
56 Apodino : Did anyone else notice this one sentence? This has me deeply worried. Why should a NW bankruptcy filing affect this terminal, when Northwest won't ev
57 NWHPDTW : I think they're saying that if (heaven forbid) NW were to disappear as a result of a Chapter 7, there would be a whole lot of unused gates at DTW, ma
58 Hjulicher : Also, I believe that if NW files for bankruptcy, the airport will not be earning as much on landing and parking fees, thus less money the airport is e
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