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Lufthansa Eyes Gander As A380 Mntc Bace  
User currently offlineJETSET From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 353 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 7781 times:

This in a nutshell would be huge for Gander .

http://www.vocm.com/news-info.asp?id=4134

I wonder what their chances are ?

Comments Anyone !

RGDS
JETSET

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4593 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 7725 times:

Well, I suppose the first, most obvious question is, "Why Gander?"

Wouldn't it be better to be at least somewhat close to one of the hubs where the A380 will be flying from? It's got to cost at least a significant amount to just fly the a/c into Gander and back to whichever airport it will be resuming scheduled service from.


User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 7716 times:

Quick question:

why would they maintain their A380s in the middle of nowhere, that isn't even a destination of LH, and probably never will be a A380 destination?!

Cheers,

Thilo



- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently onlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3836 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7672 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 1):
Well, I suppose the first, most obvious question is, "Why Gander?"

Well, I guess somebody might have calculated that it's cheaper to fly the aircraft into Gander than build a huge structure at FRA or MUC, given the real-estate prices there, plus the armies of appalled NIMBYs, especially at FRA, plus the potential expansion area that they would be blocking at FRA, for future expansion of the Cargo area or other things.

Plus, they could at least make some money by carrying a couple of paying PAX on the way to Gander, even if it's only 50 of them, better than nothing.

Plus, they could use those empty segments for things like checkrides or type-rating flights or simply training.



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1911 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7657 times:

Gander is already a base for Luftwaffe as a part of their NATO training program... maybe that has something to do with it?


Now get your f***ing Jumbo Jet off my airport!!! - AC/DC "Ain't No Fun To Be a Millionaire"
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7624 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 1):
"Why Gander?"

Tax breaks and other incentives?

Wouldn’t Gander – or any other city – solicit business as opposed to vice versa?

 spin 


User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7572 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 3):
Well, I guess somebody might have calculated that it's cheaper to fly the aircraft into Gander than build a huge structure at FRA or MUC, given the real-estate prices there, plus the armies of appalled NIMBYs, especially at FRA, plus the potential expansion area that they would be blocking at FRA, for future expansion of the Cargo area or other things.

The thing is though they are building a huge maintenance hangar for the A380 in FRA. They are planning on starting September I think. And LH already signed a rental contract untill 2040 or something like that?

Cheers,

Thilo



- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 7561 times:

Firstly, wasnt it reported that AF and LH were forming a jointventure to handle A380 maintainance?

With respect to Gander, it makes some sense since Gander is a large, rather under-utilized facility (the airport at Gander was developed at a stopover point for flights going from the Americas to Europe) and there is likely a lot of available space at the airport that can be obtained for a very reasonable amount of money (especially when compared to space near airports in key European cities) and possibly grants, subsidies and tax breaks are available for this kind of development. This will be a financial decision for LH.

As LH (and AF) will be using the A380s on some routes to North America, Gander is not really out of the way. Aircraft could be rotated into Gander before and after flights into cities like New York and Montreal. Its becoming more and more common for airlines to send aircraft to far off ports for heavy maintainance for cost and other reasons - doesnt JetBlue send its A320s to Costa Rica and I know that CO sends some aircraft to Winnipeg. Its a cost thing - heavy maintainance is very expensive, and if a considerable amount can be saved by ferrying the aircraft to an off-line airport, airlines will do it.

Its unlikely that LH would sell any seats on the ferry flights to Gander if this happens - there is no market, and the A380s will be in and out of Gander on an irrergular schedule going to various airports to re-enter revenue service.


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7089 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7453 times:

It has not really something to do with it but Lufthansa named their A340-300 D-AIFC "Gander/Halifax" in order to honour to the support of these cities during the closure of the US airspace on 9-11


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Btw some people say that this is the only aircraft not named after German cities or states. This is partly true -it is the only passenger plane.
LH Cargo had one 747-230F named New York and one named Shanghai the others were named after the continents.

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It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineTS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7432 times:

Gander as a maintenance base sounds very strange to me. Since the state administrative court in Kassel has given the go-ahead last month it will definitely built. Operations will start in 2007. Has LH 747 maintenance bases outside Germany? I don't think so. And the jumbo fleet is much larger than the A380 fleet will ever be.

Thomas


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7410 times:

Maybe they team up with Air France on this venture as well...


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8651 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 7401 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 1):
Well, I suppose the first, most obvious question is, "Why Gander?"

Why Phoenix?
Is the price is right, does it really matter where it is?


User currently offlineHanginOut From Austria, joined May 2005, 550 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 7361 times:

I wonder what other possible sites in North America LH may have in mind? Does anyone else on a.net have any insider knowledge?


Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8470 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 7285 times:

There would be a lot of sites in the US that could compete. I live in TUL and there is a fairly rich supply of experienced workers here. Other cities would be just as competitive.

While the location to served cities is important there are other factors, like cost of living, taxes, utilities, etc. Then there is the magical encouragements various cities would offer to locate in their city and provide jobs. These incentives or encouragements can be very important in selecting a site as the competition to bring jobs to a city is very strong - just look at the 787 program!


User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9736 posts, RR: 31
Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 7238 times:

This has nothing to do with the maintenance base wich is to be build in FRA. LH has never performed any D checks in FRA, regardless which A/C. Any site outside FRA must therefore be for D checks and it makes sense that AF would be teaming up. The cost of flying the aircraft to such a site is part of the total costs examination and Gander's proximity to Europe is certainly an asset over , f.i. PHX.

There are sites in Germany which would qualify as well, such as Parchim/Schwerin for instance, but that would have the disadvantage of high labour costs. The area itself is belkow the average, but the proximity to HAM would mean tht the same wages are paid for qualified personell. It could very well be that the overall costs are much cheaper in a North American site, why not Gander.



Es saugt und blaest der Heinzelmann wo Mutti sonst nur blasen kann. Frueher war mehr Lametta.
User currently offlineJohnnybgoode From Germany, joined Jan 2001, 2187 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7151 times:

PanHAM just referred to the fact that LH has never performed any D-Checks on its aircraft in FRA. IIRC, this is where AF enters the picture again. the FRA A380 maintenance base will cover maintenance work leading up to the D-Check, and the D-Checks themselves will be perforemd by AF in CDG.

rgds
daniel



If only pure sweetness was offered, why's this bitter taste left in my mouth.
User currently offlineRizzibird From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 232 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 7123 times:

Quoting TS (Reply 9):
Has LH 747 maintenance bases outside Germany?

LH rarely does heavy maintenance in Germany nowadays. The B747 usually have their D-Checks done at AMECO in PEK, which is a joint venture between LH (40%) and CA (60%). So this could be considered a LH maintenace base outside Germany. Other LH sites for heavy maintenance I know of are MNL (A340), BUD (B737) and SNN (A32X).


User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 6952 times:

I know they outsource their heavy maintenance to foreign countries. But then again Gander doesn't make any sense. There are huge facilities in the Phillipines and other Asian countries, where the labour costs are not nearly as high as in Canada, and it would make a lot more sense for LH, since as far as I know, they are planning to first fly the A380 to their Asian destinations.

Cheers,

Thilo



- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4163 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6916 times:

Nothing against Gander, but these people saying 'Gander doesn't make sense' don't realize that LH uses cities as pawns against each other. In a list of five or six 'short-list' cities, I'll BET there are only two LH cares about. Again, nothing against Gander, but I'll bet Gander isn't one of them. It's a sad way to do things, but it's the way the game is played. The good news is that the officials up in Gander KNOW (or SHOULD know) that this is all a charade and are treating the whole thing (and LH) appropriately.

Chris in NH


User currently offlineYOWguy From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week ago) and read 6778 times:

Some Gander Stats...

STATUS IFR Airport, 24 hours/day - 7 days/week

CURFEWS none

NOISE RESTRICTIONS none - exempt from Chapter 3 requirements

Runway 1: Heading 04/22, 3,109m (10,200ft), 67/F/A/W/T, Aircraft size max: B747-400, AN-225, C5, Rwy 04, ILS

Runway 2: Heading 13/31, 2,713m (8,900ft), 67/F/A/W/T, Aircraft size max: B747-400, AN-225, Rwy 13

Gander enjoys a marine temperate climate, allowing Gander International Airport to boast a 98.2 per cent weather reliability. Moreover, Gander International Airport maintains year-round blacktop conditions.

An official alternate airport of the space shuttle. We routinely accommodate the An124, C5s, C17s, 747s and, occasionally, An225.

YQX has ample parking spaces, big taxiways, 200-feet wide runways. In fact, Gander International Airport has the largest runway of any civilian airport east of Montreal.

And their website says..."The Airbus A380F? Bring it on."


User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 1 week ago) and read 6652 times:

Have anybody here considered that Gander is right about halfway between most of Europe and the Continental United states? Think about it, if a plane breaks while flying and has to divert to Gander (which does happen), You're diverting right to your maintenance base. Ops would love it.

User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6579 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 20):

For the rare occasion that this happens, it would be great, of course. But for the 100s of other times it doesn't you have to ferry the plane. So why not just put the maintenance base at the end of a flight, and schedule the maintenance in a way that the aircraft flies the route to that destination, then gets the work done, and then flies back again? Two revenue flights and no ferries.

Cheers,
Thilo



- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently offlineNosedive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6558 times:

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 20):
Think about it, if a plane breaks while flying and has to divert to Gander (which does happen), You're diverting right to your maintenance base.

Ok, so why isn't there a 747, 777, 767, 330, or 340 base in Gander now? Let's see how this pans out.


User currently offlineMconway From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 5846 times:

Here is a better link to the story:

http://www.ganderbeacon.ca/index.cfm?iid=176&sid=582

Being from Gander, I would love to see this pan out but time will tell I guess. To correct BlueSky1976, Gander is not currrently a base for the Luftwaffe as part of the NATO training program. I think you are getting Gander mixed up with Goose Bay.


User currently offlineFedExA300600R From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5063 times:

Hi all,
Another interesting site would be Montreal-Mirabel (CYMX). LH operated from there before ADM decided to switch all passenger transport to P-E Trudeau airport (formerly Dorval - CYUL). It has no noise restrictions, has a huge widebody hangar available since Air Transat was forced to move to CYUL and is used by a multitude of cargo carriers . Both levels of government are giving away tax incentives to help promote the site. Bombardier and another small aircraft manufacturer have already benefited from these. Knowing that CYUL will be visited by the A380 in the near future, i think this would be a great site.

Cheers,

Yves.



"There is more joy in giving than receiving."
25 C172heavy : I get from that article that this is to be a North America facility - they will probably have another in Europe (AF or LH hub). Also, Gander may serve
26 Tnsaf : A nice boondoggle trip for the Mayor and his team over to Europe on the taxpayers dime.
27 FlyinTLow : The other thing I really don't get is why North America. Has any North-American airline ordered the A380 except for the cargo airlines? In that case M
28 DYK : what other cities are being considered?
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