Geoffm From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 2111 posts, RR: 7 Posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2537 times:
(and yes I searched)
Why are there no direct services between London and Manila any more? Is it because it's not a major tourist destination for Brits? No business? We have large numbers of nurses and suchlike over here so I would have thought there would be *some* demand!
It's roughly the same distance as SIN - though I'm not sure about weather patterns and suchlike - so it should be in range for a B744 shouldn't it?
KL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1573 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2516 times:
Well Philippine Airlines use to operate this route non-stop with its A340-300. After the strike back in 98 all routes to Europe was discontinued.
PR wants to return to LHR, but it doesn't have extra aircrafts for that route ie A340's.
BA will probably never return to MNL because it can codeshare with CX from HKG.
The current PR fleet is already utilized to capacity, SO extra lift is needed. Most of PR's concentration is in the US market where it remains the carriers best performing country.
PR use to codeshare with KL to AMS since last year, however, I don't know what happened to it, because I don't see it anymore on their website. Any body know more about this?
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 58 Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2498 times:
I believe that BA served Manila at one time (via another city) and the demand and yeilds were poor and the route was dropped.
Many European carriers have had little success at MNL - even PR dropped service to Europe after their financial problems.
I think that a combination of factors makes service from LON to MNL a difficult proposition - firstly, the Phillipines and the UK do not have the historical, cultural and business ties that UK has with, say, SIN or HKG. While Manila is a huge city and has a good amount of business activity, its not one of the money-centers of Asia, from a historical point of view - the Phillipines share more history with the US than Europe and the same if probably true demographic and immigration trends limiting the friends & family market, and tourism in the Phillipines is limted when compared to other nations such as Thailand and Indonesia.
The fact that major Asian carriers such as CX and SQ provide easy connections from Europe to MNL also cannot help the case for the launch of a nonstop service on the LON-MNL route.
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22028 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2453 times:
The Philippines is in general a low yield VFR market. European airline service to country has decreased over the years with only KLM and Lufthansa remaining. BA served Manila until 2002 having operated a HKG-MNL tag on flight.
Manila for the most part is a secondary destination for European carriers. Tourism, trade and investment flows are limited between the EU and the Philippines as compared with other South East Asian countries.
An eventual return of PAL to Europe is possible as only it is interested in servicing the lower yield Filipino expat labor pool in Europe.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
COSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1473 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2297 times:
KL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1573 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2273 times:
Quoting COSPN (Reply 4): How is KL Doing with AMS-MNL ???
The route has been operated for a very very long time.
I think they are doing very well on this route. Cargo is very strong on this route, and since AF has canceled its MNL route it now sends its pax via AMS
The route has just been upgraded late last year to direct service with B777's. It use to be operated via KUL (KL808 and KL807)
Cslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 811 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2247 times:
I think that it would make sense for the next European carrier to fly to MNL would be AY. AY has a strong strategy to use the advantageous geographic location of HEL as a connecting gateway to North and East Asia.
Diesel33 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 294 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2211 times:
Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 6): I think that it would make sense for the next European carrier to fly to MNL would be AY. AY has a strong strategy to use the advantageous geographic location of HEL as a connecting gateway to North and East Asia.
That would be great. However, if the UK and the Philippine have very few political ties with each other, Finland and the Philippines has virtually none.
EDDM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 222 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 2106 times:
Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 6): AY has a strong strategy to use the advantageous geographic location of HEL as a connecting gateway to North and East Asia
What exactly is this advantage? Ok, LHR-SIN (6765 mi) is longer than HEL-SIN (5762 mi) - but that becomes insubstantial when we're talking connections.
FCO-LHR-SIN (7664 mi) is not much worse than FCO-HEL-SIN (7150 mi), or is it?
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4414 posts, RR: 76 Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2031 times:
Quoting KL808 (Reply 5): I think they are doing very well on this route. Cargo is very strong on this route, and since AF has canceled its MNL route it now sends its pax via AMS
The route has just been upgraded late last year to direct service with B777's. It use to be operated via KUL (KL808 and KL807)
I know load factors aren't everything, but the nonstop AMS-MNL flight is almost never full, and KLM Philipines has just extended its promotional Business Class offer to Europe (booking class Z, for about USD2,300 to destinations Europe) over the entire summer peak period, so I think it's safe to say that there's at least some problems with the premium traffic levels.
On the other hand, KLM has upgraded the route frequency to daily, and that will remain unchanged for the winter season, albeit with a somewhat different schedule, as Westbound flights will operate daylight schedules to improve aircraft utilization and reduce ground time at MNL. I guess that if KLM sticks to daily operations at MNL, the route can't be losing money.
As for the lack of direct services between London and Manila, note that a couple of other Asian metropolis are lacking a direct link to London: Nagoya, Canton and Jakarta, to name just a few. I believe the slot restricted nature of London airports forces airlines to optimize, thereby dropping secondary -not necessarily loss making- flights in favor of reinforced connections to existing higher yielding destinations.
COSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1473 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 1911 times:
Thanks HB-IWC,
Sometimes KL is next to CO gate for Departure and it seems like the same number of PAX waiting; or Less but CO is a 737-800 to SPN or GUM, only 155 Pax....!?!?!
SK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 975 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1901 times:
Every time when I check the booking figures ex AMS (and I am at SPL almost every day) the AMS-MNL flight is nearly full (at least 80%). On some days the flight is oversold by 15-20 pax, with a fully booked C-class as well.
BTW there is a LON-MNL flight, it departs from LON-south arpt, arpt code AMS
KL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1573 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 1903 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 11): know load factors aren't everything, but the nonstop AMS-MNL flight is almost never full, and KLM Philipines has just extended its promotional Business Class offer to Europe (booking class Z, for about USD2,300 to destinations Europe) over the entire summer peak period, so I think it's safe to say that there's at least some problems with the premium traffic levels.
I think your right that premium traffic is very weak on this route, but cargo makes up for it.
Back in the days the route use to be operated via KUL and BKK on a B744 and the aircraft always left MNL almost half empty, but the cargo hold was always full.
FinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1725 times:
FCO-LHR-SIN (7664 mi) is not much worse than FCO-HEL-SIN (7150 mi), or is it?
No it is not, but when flying via Helsinki you will need only around 35min for transfer which makes connecting very easy here. At LHR I wouldn't even consider to take less than 2hrs transfer time and even then I would be worried is that enough to catch my next flight.
What about the over congested airspace over LHR and constant slot restrictions?
All this makes transfer at LHR many hours slower and more difficult experience than in Helsinki...
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