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Etihad Flights To BRU And YYZ Confirmed: Schedule  
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5383 times:

Hi all,

No official press release from Etihad yet, but Amadeus have loaded the SN Brussels Airlines schedules! The routing will be: AUH-BRU-YYZ-BRU-AUH.

All flights will be operated by Etihad, but SN will codeshare on all flights.

From/To - Flightnumber-Days-Departure Time-Arrival Time-Airplane

AUH - BRU SN8102 1-3-5-- 13:15 17:45 332 (operated by Etihad Airways - EY)
BRU - YYZ SN8099 1-3-5-- 19:00 21:45 332 (operated by EY)

YYZ - BRU SN8100 1-3-5-- 23:00 12:30 332 (operated by EY)
BRU - AUH SN8101 -2-4-6- 13:45 23:20 332 (operated by EY)

Posted by OO-VEX at http://www.luchtzak.be ( http://www.luchtzak.be/postt12272.html )

Regards
Frederic

[Edited 2005-07-18 22:48:35]

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1433 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5334 times:

Excellent news for both BRU and YYZ.
EY will become the 50th carrier operating into Pearson International.
This is not including the regional carriers like American Eagle, Comair, Jazz or cargo etc.

Sadly the arrival/departure times will result in challenging photography conditions.

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineN77014 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5262 times:

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 1):
Sadly the arrival/departure times will result in challenging photography conditions

You could catch the summer arrivals into YYZ. Did SN ever serve YYZ/YUL?


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4750 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5140 times:

I was told that EY was once again not permitted to fly into YYZ just 4 days ago and now this comes up on A.Net.

Lets see what transpires.


User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1433 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5092 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 3):
I was told that EY was once again not permitted to fly into YYZ just 4 days ago and now this comes up on A.Net.

What was the reason?
I thought the CTA had given approval and the current bilateral allows thrice weekly service.

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4750 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5075 times:

Ok Gulf News has the story too and EY have officially confirmed it :

http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/NationNF.asp?ArticleID=173551

Etihad Airways has announced it is to begin transatlantic flying in October.
The United Arab Emirates flag carrier will fly to Toronto three times a week from Abu Dhabi. The decision to commence flights to the north American continent comes only two years after the airline was launched. But they are planning to expand further, with flights to the USA to come next year.

Ian Ferguson Brown, Etihad's head of communications, said: “Our flight to Canada will be a lauch pad for our services to the USA in summer 2006.”

***Btw dont get me wrong, Im really happy that theyre coming to YYZ. I hope that their launch flight arrives a few hours early for spotters and better media coverage during daylight hours in late OCT.


User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5068 times:

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 3):
I was told that EY was once again not permitted to fly into YYZ just 4 days ago and now this comes up on A.Net.

Etihad got the licence at the end of June to operate a scheduled 3xweekly international service between Abu Dhabi and Toronto via BRU.

The agreement was properly approved by the Belgium and Canadian authorities.



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently onlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4496 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4954 times:

Quoting N77014 (Reply 2):
Did SN ever serve YYZ/YUL?

SN last served YUL between 1998 and its demise in 2001. Daily flights were served first by MD11 aircraft and later by a mix of A330 and A340. SN served YYZ for a while as a code share destination with DL via CVG.

Quoting Sabena 690 (Thread starter):
AUH - BRU SN8102 1-3-5-- 13:15 17:45 332 (operated by Etihad Airways - EY)
BRU - YYZ SN8099 1-3-5-- 19:00 21:45 332 (operated by EY)

YYZ - BRU SN8100 1-3-5-- 23:00 12:30 332 (operated by EY)
BRU - AUH SN8101 -2-4-6- 13:45 23:20 332 (operated by EY)

A turn around time of just 75 minutes (both in the intermediate and terminator stop) for an A332 is possible but risky. Unless the block times have been calculated rather liberal, expect some operational delays here.

Also, SN seem to have gotten into the strategy of codesharing with just about every airline serving BRU. I wonder whether that is really such a brilliant idea. In view of its current route network, what is the incremental value of adding AUH and YYZ? Wouldn't SN rather pursue a joint venture with AC for operation of a future BRU-YUL route?

As for BRU, it's about time the airport succeeds in attracting new longhaul traffic. Too bad though, it's gonna be Etihad - their network is not yet large enough to challenge AF-KL, BA and LH as the dominant players at BRU for longhaul traffic. I believe either EK or QR could do a great job bringing fares ex BRU, now mostly dictated by the major 3, down.


User currently offlineACB777 From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 350 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4864 times:

Since it is confirmed that Etihad is going to fly to YYZ, will Emirates still try to fly to YYZ. I have read that the current bilateral agreement between Canada and the UAE allows only one UAE carrier to operate to Canada.

User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4862 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 7):
A turn around time of just 75 minutes (both in the intermediate and terminator stop) for an A332 is possible but risky. Unless the block times have been calculated rather liberal, expect some operational delays here.

I noticed that as well. I can understand the 75 minutes at BRU (as I assume that, for EY, the most important reason for the flight is the AUH-YYZ market, so you can see BRU as some kind of 'fuel stop'), but the 75 minutes in YYZ seems to be quite risky indeed. If you look at the schedules, you will see that once an aircraft has completed its AUH-BRU-YYZ-BRU-AUH run, another aircraft will probably operate the new AUH-BRU-... run (as there is a lay-over of almost 14h). I hope that the aircraft arriving in AUH (from whatever destination) connecting to BRU-YYZ will have a longer turn around than 75 minutes.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 7):
I believe either EK or QR could do a great job bringing fares ex BRU, now mostly dictated by the major 3, down.

Especially EK in my opinion. I don't have financial route data about their network, but if they can make DUS succesful, they should have to be able to make BRU succesful as well. I wouldn't be surprised if quite some Belgians fly EK out of DUS anyway.

By the way, I've seen that EY have hired quite some people for their BRU operations. Is it really their intention to attract a big number of pax in BRU? Because when 60% of the plane flies AUH-BRU-AUH (with a connection to/from BKK for example), EY will only be able to sell 40% of their plane for AUH-BRU-YYZ passengers. This also means that the plane will only be 40% full between BRU and YYZ, unless SN Brussels manages to fill a lot of seats on this sector (as EY can't sell BRU-YYZ-BRU for non-AUH originating passengers as far as I know).

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 7):
In view of its current route network, what is the incremental value of adding AUH and YYZ?

Would EY have been able to open BRU without the cooperation of SN? If I'm not mistaken, only SN will be able to sell tickets between BRU and YYZ. When quite a lot of people would use the BRU-AUH-... sectors, EY would fly with empty planes to/from YYZ, so it's possible that SN was necessary to let their BRU flights succeed.

Frederic


User currently offlineARGinLON From Vatican City, joined Jun 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4792 times:

Where are they going to fly and when in the USA?

User currently onlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4496 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4749 times:

Quoting Sabena 690 (Reply 9):
Would EY have been able to open BRU without the cooperation of SN? If I'm not mistaken, only SN will be able to sell tickets between BRU and YYZ.

I would be very surprised if EY were allowed to sell tickets on BRU-YYZ. As far as I know, they have full fifth freedom rights on the sector. BRU and the Belgian government can ill afford not to allow EY these rights. The only reason then why EY could possibly lack to right to sell BRU-YYZ-BRU would be the Canadian government.

Anyone knows what's SN's share of seats on the flight? I'm guessing we're talking a blocked space agreement for something to the tune of 5C/30Y seats per flight.


User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1433 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4578 times:

Quoting ACB777 (Reply 8):
Since it is confirmed that Etihad is going to fly to YYZ, will Emirates still try to fly to YYZ. I have read that the current bilateral agreement between Canada and the UAE allows only one UAE carrier to operate to Canada.

That is correct.
EK is effectively locked out of Canada until/unless the bilateral is reworked.

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineTRVYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1369 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4571 times:

Is this the first arab Airline to YYZ? EY doesn't seem to have many destinations in India other than of course BOM and DEL. Pax to these two cities have a dozen other options(AZ,KL,LH,BA,CX,KE, etc). GF, qatar, EK or KU would have had greater Indian traffic. Hope EY makes it soon to some south Indian cities.

User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1433 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 4473 times:

Quoting TRVYYZ (Reply 13):
Is this the first arab Airline to YYZ?

RJ used to fly L1011s into YYZ back in the 80s early 90s.
I totally agree that EY will need to start some more Indian cities to be able to grow this route, but they will do well regardless, or is that irregardless  Wink

If they had HYD as a destination I would have contemplated taking them instead of EK this fall.

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently offlineDYK From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4359 times:

Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 12):
That is correct.
EK is effectively locked out of Canada until/unless the bilateral is reworked.

locked out of Toronto or Canada? Can they still fly to Vancouver or Montreal?



AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
User currently offlineAirbusfanYYZ From Canada, joined Oct 2002, 1433 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 4244 times:

As stated... locked out of Canada.

Quoting DYK (Reply 15):
Quoting AirbusfanYYZ (Reply 12):
That is correct.
EK is effectively locked out of Canada until/unless the bilateral is reworked.

locked out of Toronto or Canada? Can they still fly to Vancouver or Montreal?

CANADA.

Cheers,
Kaz



t.dot photography
User currently onlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4496 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4029 times:

For those of you who read some French, the story is on the front page of today's L'Echo de la Bourse, a Belgian financial daily:

http://www.lecho.be/webpdf/html/pdf_une.jsp


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3867 times:

Thanks for the link, HB-IWC!

There is also an article in De Tijd (a Flemish financial newspaper), but I can't post a link as it is restricted to (paying) subscribers.

A summary:
- start of the Etihad operations (in codeshare with SN Brussels): 31 October 2005
- not litteraly in the article, but I can conclude that there SN has a blockspace agreement between BRU and YYZ, but NOT between BRU and AUH
- SN is also considering adding codeshares on EY flights through AUH
- EY has NO traffic rights between BRU and YYZ

Regards
Frederic


User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 47
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3837 times:

Some thoughts and additional information....

It is certain we will see EY add its code to a considerable amount of European afternoon/evening flights from SN, thus using them as feeders for their flight to/from AUH, so it would indeed be logic for SN to be allowed to select a number of Asian EY flights in return.

EY indeed has NO traffic rights between BRU and YYZ; the only marketing carrier for this part of the journey will be SN, hence the fact they took the risk of signing a block space agreement (i.e. reserved seats). A look at the arrival/departure time of the YYZ flight learns it is conveniently scheduled to allow connecting in BRU to/from one of the many afternoon/evening flights from SN to many important cities in Europe. Any idea how many blocked seats SN has to Toronto on each flight? 20?


User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3846 times:

YYZ is having a great time this year with its Indian links... AI via BHX , now EY....not including whatever happens with EK... Im thinking that once EY intro's more indian routes from AUH, there may be some good fare competition ...

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