DAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3 Posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11349 times:
BA Chairman: Reviewing Options For New Long-Haul Planes
BA is apparently considering several aircraft at the moment. Interesting to note the absence of any 747 ADV talk here, and the A-380 is mentioned as a "wait and see how it works" assesment:
Tuesday July 19, 9:09 AM EDT
LONDON -(Dow Jones)- British Airways PLC (BAB) (BAB) is reviewing its options for future purchases of long-haul aircraft, but a decision doesn't have to be made for some time, Chairman Martin Broughton said Tuesday.
"On the long-haul, we are in a position where we don't need to reinvest for two or three years," Broughton said at the company's annual general meeting.
He added that the airline is reviewing available aircraft such as the long- range version of Boeing Co. (BA)'s (BA) 777, as well as Boeing's (BA) 787 planes and the Airbus (ABI.YY) A380.
Broughton said the airline hopes to see the double-decker A380 operating before it makes a decision on whether to buy the Airbus aircraft.
The first A380 is scheduled to go into service with Singapore Airlines Ltd. ( S55.SG) in late 2006.
At the AGM, shareholders approved the appointment of Chief Executive-elect Willie Walsh to the board. Walsh is due to take over from Rod Eddington later this year.
Walsh told shareholders that his priorities for the airline over the next two years are similar to Eddington's. One of BA's key goals is to increase its current single-digit operating margin toward 10%.
Maybe it's because they don't want to replace the 747s yet and when they do, they will evaluate the 773ER, 747Adv and maybe the A346.
I am sure you know the A380 is all new in every way... it doesn't replace anything that currently exists today. So if BA evaluating this aircraft it's because of a new business need for it and not a replacement.
Carduelis From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2001, 1586 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11238 times:
Yes, I attended the British Airways AGM this morning.
As usual, there were the rather self-important attendees who try to embarrass the board by asking stupid questions or making nebulous statements, but generally finish up making real prats of themselves mainly talking about total irrelevances to the business of the day. I thought Martin Broughton handled the Meeting well.
Next BA AGM will be held on Tuesday 18 July 2006 at the Queen Elizabeth Conference Centre, Westminster. Why not come along as a guest.
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
No doubt an interesting proposition but unfortunately not an option for me personally.
What was your take on the fleet plan? It almost sounded to me that they have no intention of doing anything for a while on the Whale jet or 747 issue, but may order the 787 in two years? It was funny there was no mention of the A-350...did this come up at all???
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8213 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11146 times:
I have my doubts that BA will order the A380-800 unless Airbus offers a really good financial deal. This is because unlike other airlines BA suffers the least from LHR and LGW slot restrictions, and as such could change their landing slot allocations to accomodate higher volume of flights to certain destinations with very little notice. This is why I think BA--in order to maintain commonality with their current 747-400 fleet--may become a launch customer for the 747 Advanced model.
Any indications as to when they are likely to acquire aircraft that don't go tech quite as often as the present fleet does or is the idea of actually enhancing regional services with a better product totally on the backburner (I have a white flag is readiness for the MAN "tactical retreat" if there isn't!) ? Or better still, have they worked out how much money Flightline and Titan have made operating tons of services for BACX out of MAN in the present years?
Glom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2823 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10667 times:
Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 1): Maybe it's because they don't want to replace the 747s yet and when they do, they will evaluate the 773ER, 747Adv and maybe the A346.
I would register extreme shock and surprise if they went for the A346. The 773ER is a clear winner in that battle plus they already have a large 777 so they don't even have commonality.
As to the lack of mention of the 747ADV, it has been officially offered yet so we can't infer they wouldn't care about it, but we can infer that they aren't the mystery customers, which was not unexpected given the GE problem.
KL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1595 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10654 times:
Quoting Glom (Reply 8): I would register extreme shock and surprise if they went for the A346. The 773ER is a clear winner in that battle plus they already have a large 777 so they don't even have commonality.
Buy British is the key word here. Good price from Airbus might win them over.
Glom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2823 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10632 times:
Quoting KL808 (Reply 9): Buy British is the key word here. Good price from Airbus might win them over.
It would have to be a very, very good price. The buy British attitude has never prevailed in BA before. They have always bought the aircraft that suits them most and the 773ER suits them far more than the A346.
FCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10583 times:
Think they will not go A350 , as this plane is too closed of the 777-200 capacity.They can consider it , only if they decide to replace these T7s , which is not the case.787 makes more sense to open new small market , maybe out of MAN , BHX or PIK , and to replace the 767 fleet.
Think they will go 787/777-200LR/777-300ER and A380 , and no 747ADV.
I am not sure they need a plane between the 747-400 and the A380.
The only way i see BA purchasing 747ADV , is only if they decide to replace the whole 747-400 fleet with a common plane , in this case , meaning no 777-300ER. So in this case the future long haul fleet could be 787/777-200/747ADV and A380.
They absolutly need a huge wide body , not only because LHR is congested , but simply as the market is already there for this purpose.
I really think 747ADV option would be a mismanagement , not because i am European , but simply speaking about commercialy.
Boysteve From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 965 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10551 times:
I also agree that BA will not buy the A346. I would be surprised, but less so, if they ordered the A350 for the 'lesser' routes or to develop MAN for example. For such a purpose I think Boeing's 787 would prevail, based on previous BA behavior. As for the key routes out of LHR, the A380 has more than a chance, although as stated BA have no reason to rush into a decision before it is flying and the actual economics of the aircraft can be studied.
What is clear is that the 787 will make some non-profitable routes profitable again, however there will be no new runway capacity at LHR for at least 15 years. Therefore if BA flew the A380 LHR-JFK to reduce the number of daily flights, for example, it would free up slots for routes such as LHR-SAN to recommence with the 787.
Cslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 853 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10446 times:
I highly doubt that BA will place any new widebody aircraft orders with deliveries within next five years. The 747-400s, 777-200ERs and 767-300ERs will stay in BA's fleet until the end of their useful economic life. Right now there is no need for BA to replace their 747-400s. If BA were to replace their 747-400s now, BA would flood an already weak second hand market with 50-some used 747-400s, diminishing their value. It would be wise for BA to wait several years to until it becomes economically prudent to retire those 747-400s.
After 2010 I could see BA adding more aircraft, and deploying most of the incremental capacity at airports other than LHR. I'm looking for BA to expand long-haul routes form regional airports like GLA, MAN and BHX, and at LON's two other main airports: LGW and STN. I like STN because it is the next LON area airport to get an additional runway. STN also doesn't have any significant scheduled long-haul serive by a major IATA carrier. I believe their is significant growth potential at STN.
After 2010 I could see BA adding aircraft like the 747-Advanced, 777-300ER, 777-200LR, 787-9, 787-8 and 787-3.
"Mr Broughton said dividends were unlikely until the operating profit margin reaches 10pc. This is targeted for the next financial year.
He also said the board will decide within nine months how to replace its ageing long-haul fleet. Options included buying Boeing's new 787 Dreamliners or its 747 Advanced jets, or Airbus's new A380 super-jumbos."
Amy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 1150 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9997 times:
Here's hoping for 747ADV or 777-300ER orders (although somehow I can't see a BA 777-300ER) and definitely some 787s! I continue to hope BA don't touch the A380. It fits into some airline's ops but I can't see it in BA.
PanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2720 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 8967 times:
Quoting Lee (Reply 7): I could see the 787 slotting very nicely into BA's fleet, would open up some smaller markets. I would like to see them expand internationally at BHX and MAN.
While I see the 787 or A350 making it's way into the BA fleet within 8-10 years, they will, as it is currently planned, not expand from secondary UK markets, save the shorthaul stuff. BA's only long haul flight not from LHR/LGW is MAN-JFK, simply because there is [some] premium demand here. BA has stated they will centralize their long haul ops from LHR and LGW, the latter being used for leisure flights, with the former being used primarily for high-yield routes.
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 20): I see a whole slew of 773-ER's and many 787's which will fill the gap nicely...if they order The Leviathan, it wouldn't be anymore than 1/2 dozen..but thats about it.....
BA need three deck capacity, and the 773ER may be in the running but certainly not in any large number. A reasonable size topup order for transatlantics might be indicated but cargo is an important factor. That would favour a larger order for the A380. Six aircraft is far too little a fleet of A380 for BA's operations, and at least double that number would be needed to impact on any route. UK-OZ is one route where BA could move from the 744 to 388.
Of course a Trent powered 747X would be a whole new factor if offered at the right price. Bitish Airways buys smartly and cuts hard deals, and has done since privatisation. Considerations of where and who builds the aircraft are secondary by a long way.
The 787 is a bit of an oddball for BA's current fleet requirements. The 763 is split over two distinct segments, namely thinner longhaul and higher capacity European routes. They certainly wouldn't have a requirement for 'many'. The A321 and A320 has displaced the 757 and 767 on many European routes, and the 772 would be cascaded onto the thinner routes where possible after being replaced on some current operations. BA's markets are constantly changing so any like-for-like discussion whilst looking at their current fleet is difficult.
Willie Walsh is another important factor in BA's future. He has a certain preference for Airbus and GE products, so BA may not be as firmly wedded to Rolls Royce as they have been in recent years.
Cornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8010 times:
Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 22): The 787 is a bit of an oddball for BA's current fleet requirements. The 763 is split over two distinct segments, namely thinner longhaul and higher capacity European routes. They certainly wouldn't have a requirement for 'many'. The A321 and A320 has displaced the 757 and 767 on many European routes, and the 772 would be cascaded onto the thinner routes where possible after being replaced on some current operations. BA's markets are constantly changing so any like-for-like discussion whilst looking at their current fleet is difficult.
I agree on the 787 issue. As you rightly say - the 767 is split over two distinct segments, and BA may feel they can adequately cover the phase out of 767s with A321s for the Euro routes, and 777s for the long haul ones. While the 767s in Europe are handy for some peak hour services, they spend much of the time flying less than full the rest of the day. Likewise a 777 for a long haul route over a 767 would not be too much of a problem for BA I suspect - perhaps any route that couldn't profitably be filled on a 777 would get dropped anyway.
That way another aircraft type is dropped from the fleet (757/767) which would save some costs.
In all honesty BA is one of the few major airlines which doesn't really have a great need for a 787/A350 aircraft at present.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work