NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5147 posts, RR: 49 Posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10940 times:
Just saw a story on Bloomberg saying that Cargo Lux may announce an order for the 747ADV freighter version at 2PM NY time today (July 20th). I'll try and find a link to the story.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5147 posts, RR: 49 Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10803 times:
It didn't give numbers. I'll look at the news tickers around 2pm.
ChicagoOhare From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10739 times:
This would be absolutely awesome!! Will this potential order mark the launch of the program? It seems like through the threads and Boeing that the 747ADV wasn't going to be until later in the year. September? Anyways, we'll have to wait and see. Again this would be great news today.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 66 Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10584 times:
Quoting ChicagoOhare (Reply 3): Will this potential order mark the launch of the program?
Boeing recently announced that launch would require orders from two reputable carriers. CargoLux would count for one of two. One more would be required.
KL808 From United States of America, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 1573 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10558 times:
"Luxembourg, 20th July 2005. - The Board of Directors of Cargolux has authorized Management to enter into negotiations with Boeing for the procurement of a minimum of 10 Boeing B747 Advanced Freighters (ADV F) for delivery beginning as of 2009.
The Board decision is the culmination of a thorough and lengthy selection process. For some time, Cargolux had encouraged aircraft and engine manufacturers to build a new generation aircraft offering better economics and environmental protection.
More recently, Cargolux had launched an in-depth analysis of all factors relevant to the decision, leading to the selection of a successor aircraft to the B747-400F currently operated by the company.
The B747-ADV freighter will combine state-of-the-art airframe and engine technology. Environmentally, this aircraft will meet all future noise limitations and assure lowest emissions and allow Cargolux to maintain its profitability in an environment marked by very high fuel prices.
Cargolux President and CEO Uli Ogiermann stated: “ Management’s recommendation to the Board is the result of a very thorough analysis during which we assessed which aircraft was best suited to our fleet renewal in the next decade. The fact that we enter into negotiations with the Boeing company is based purely on commercial considerations, supported by the environmental benefits the B747-ADV F offers.”"
EDIT:
so 10 aircrafts. So are they interested or they are on order already?
Xkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 813 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10457 times:
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 6): Boeing recently announced that launch would require orders from two reputable carriers. CargoLux would count for one of two. One more would be required
WhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10447 times:
Could be another customer who would want a Trent 1000 engine as well. Cargolux does operate both GE and RR power, although recent purchases have come out of Seattle with the RB211 under the wings.
Some of the Cargolux aircraft are extremely new but others are getting on a bit. They certainly are one of the more established and renowned freight dogs.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5147 posts, RR: 49 Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10299 times:
Now it's in Boeing's court to commit. Even though it's one commitment, others will come in. Boeing has to step up and pull the trigger. I think we'll probably see something from LH, CX or JAL.
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4003 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10221 times:
Don't forget QF...I think they're still fair game.
AJRfromSYR From United States of America, joined May 2005, 454 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10165 times:
How many orders would Boeing need to keep the line open and start the ADV?
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5147 posts, RR: 49 Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10130 times:
I beleive Boeing already has enough orders for the 744 to keep that line going until the 747 ADV can start to replace it on the line around 2008-09.
Any word from Boeing on today's announcement from Cargolux?
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5147 posts, RR: 49 Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10075 times:
Quoting KL808 (Reply 7): so 10 aircrafts. So are they interested or they are on order already?
Don't think they're on order...
1) The Board is going to start negotiations to purchase them,
2) Boeing has not (at least publically) committed to building it, though it seems that it is a foregone conclusion that they will build it.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6798 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10061 times:
BOEING FOR THE PROCUREMENT OF NEXT GENERATION AIRCRAFT
Luxembourg, 20th July 2005. - The Board of Directors of Cargolux has authorized Management to enter into negotiations with Boeing for the procurement of a minimum of 10 Boeing B747 Advanced Freighters (ADV F) for delivery beginning as of 2009.
The Board decision is the culmination of a thorough and lengthy selection process. For some time, Cargolux had encouraged aircraft and engine manufacturers to build a new generation aircraft offering better economics and environmental protection.
More recently, Cargolux had launched an in-depth analysis of all factors relevant to the decision, leading to the selection of a successor aircraft to the B747-400F currently operated by the company.
The B747-ADV freighter will combine state-of-the-art airframe and engine technology. Environmentally, this aircraft will meet all future noise limitations and assure lowest emissions and allow Cargolux to maintain its profitability in an environment marked by very high fuel prices.
Cargolux President and CEO Uli Ogiermann stated: “ Management’s recommendation to the Board is the result of a very thorough analysis during which we assessed which aircraft was best suited to our fleet renewal in the next decade. The fact that we enter into negotiations with the Boeing company is based purely on commercial considerations, supported by the environmental benefits the B747-ADV F offers.”
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4003 posts, RR: 6 Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10011 times:
So, it sounds like Cargolx will buy at least 10 747Adv, they are now just negotiating a price and waiting for Boeing to officially launch the aircraft. At least that's how I read it.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5147 posts, RR: 49 Reply 19, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9889 times:
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 18): So, it sounds like Cargolx will buy at least 10 747Adv, they are now just negotiating a price and waiting for Boeing to officially launch the aircraft. At least that's how I read it.
OldAeroGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3206 posts, RR: 66 Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 9887 times:
Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 10): Could be another customer who would want a Trent 1000 engine as well.
Not an option. The 747Adv will be offered with GE power only.
Airplane design is easy, the difficulty is getting them to fly - Barnes Wallis
NA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 9600 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9582 times:
Wonderful. Looks like this turns into a fixed order soon. I´m surprised Cargolux is so fast in replacing their 744Fs. If they start receiving 747 Adv.Fs in 2009 the oldest 744F will be 16 years old (Cargolux operates the first 744F built).
HR001 From Honduras, joined Nov 2004, 303 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9448 times:
Quoting NA (Reply 21): in 2009 the oldest 744F will be 16 years old (Cargolux operates the first 744F built).
Don´t forget that Cargolux has the or one of the highest utilization rates for B-744F's in the world. around 18hrs, so the aircraft will have plenty of flight hours in 16 yrs of service.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7752 posts, RR: 26 Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9431 times:
Good decision by CV. Clearly fits their operational profile, gives room to grow through higher payload with same number of aircraft in fleet, can go to all airports in network which are currently served (A380F could not do that). The ADV builds on present dsesign, not much change in maintenance procedures, training etc.
This is good news for Boeing and the airline industry. The market is not left to Airbus, although the 747ADV and the A380F each define their own market niche.
Buten und binnen, wagen un winnen
25 MauriceB: my bet is on JAL for further 747-200/200F replacement... on the longer run im sure that AF-KL, CX, LH, NWA, BA, will order the plane... Maybe KL can b
26 DAYflyer: Great news! I thought it would not happen with all the delays and apparent lack of interest...with everything being so quiet for so long! Now 10 frame
27 Dimsum: Oh no, what would that do to a possible CX order? Would they be willing to use something other than RR?
28 NA: "Don´t forget that Cargolux has the or one of the highest utilization rates for B-744F's in the world. around 18hrs, so the aircraft will have plenty
29 Lightsaber: Wow, near the first off of the line of the 747adv. (please make it the 745 or 748 to simplify the typing... I'm betting on 747-8 or 747-800). Its ten
30 Patroni: CV's average daily utilisation is high, but not that high. 16 hours a day is a more realistic value.
31 Amirs: Any chance LY will replace their aging 742F with 747ADV?
32 Glom: Does that have to be two for each the pax and freighter or two between them? Glad to see this has gotten started.
33 Hr001: You are right ATW december 2004 it states 16.5 hours on average. hr001
34 Zvezda: Two total. If the freighter is launched the passenger version will also be launched and vice versa.
35 Centrair: A lot of you are thinking that JL is going to order the 747ADV in the passenger version. I am not so confident about that. It seems that both JL and N
36 Trex8: I will bet good money CI will order at least 9 to replace the 744s delivered from 95, they have already replaced the 4 delivered in the early 90s with
37 Fumanchewd: According to Cargolux it is only 15:55 a day. http://www.cargolux.com/key_figures/index.htm# it's under "Daily Aircraft Utilization"[Edited 2005-07-2
38 Liedetectors: Lets not cry. CX and BA *will* order the 747ADV. Boeing *will* make the ADV. It is their widebody cashcow, and all of the tooling is paid for in full.
39 Ken777: While I would like to see QF jump in soon I believe JAL is probably at the top of the list. CX is another favorite of mine - especially when I see all
40 Hamlet69: FWIW, Boeing have previously stated they need 20-30 orders to keep the line going until 2009. IIRC, that was at the beginning of this year. As of Par
41 Columba: LH has shown a lot of interest in the passenger version of 747Adv. They need a plane between the A340-600 and the A380.
42 Scbriml: I think you'll find it was very nearly the reverse. BA almost had to beg Airbus to bid for their new narrowbody fleet. Airbus believed BA was only us
43 TS: Are there any indications why LH should do that? They just got rid of their 742s & now have an all MD-11 fleet. Thomas
44 PanAm_DC10: Since then we've had Guggenheim and China Cargo "firm" 8 frames in total. So that should leave a minimum balance of approximately 25-30 still outstan
45 FriendlySkies: IIRC, didn't Boeing state at the time of the Guggenheim order that it had enough to keep the line open without anymore orders?
46 Tockeyhockey: the hours don't matter nearly as much as the cycles. what are cargolux's main routes? how many cycles are those 18 hour days including?
47 PanAm_DC10: They didn't need to because they already had sir. Boeing has another 24 747-400s left to build, and Mulally hinted at additional 747-400 orders that
48 F14D4ever: If they want 747Adv they'll have to be willing. They'll use GE engines and like it ... and what's not to like?
49 PM: What's not to like? A step closer to a GE monopoly where airlines are given exactly your message: you'll take GE and damn well put up with it. Don't
50 FriendlySkies: I think there's more to Boeing's move for one engine type on the 747Adv than meets the eye. With the 787 they have figured out how to do a quick engin
51 BoeingBus: As of today, GE is powering the 747Adv and the A350. If you want to point blame, we need to figure out the hell is up at Rolls Royce??? They somehow a
52 Kappel: KLM will certainly not order the A380. I would not be surprised if they would order the 747Adv, but at most 5, since Boeing won't be making combi's a
53 FriendlySkies: RR may be "behind the eight ball," but PW seems to have fallen off the face of the earth...it's a shame, I always liked them...maybe they'll try to ma
54 TrevD: This is as much a carry-over from the other thread on a similar topic but with several folk opining the CLX would also be ordering the A380F. And whil
55 Ha763: The MD-11 and DC-10 are also limited to 8ft high on the main deck, so this is not really a limitation for the A380. However, the loading density is a
56 Kappel: and why is that? (just asking, i didn't know about this)
57 Atmx2000: It's hard to say whether UPS would have ordered the A380F if they didn't have this huge unfilled order for A300Fs for which they had paid deposits th
58 QFA001: OTOH, P&W used to have even more civil engine market share than GE. During that time there was even less choice of engines than today. Ofcourse, P&W
59 TrevD: Ha753, good catch, and thanks. You're right the 10 ft stack is specific to the 747. MD-11's and DC-10's have the 102 inch door leaving a 97.5 inch or
60 TrevD: Hi Kappel - Atmx2000 got it exact. UPS ended up very dissatisfied with the A300F's for a variety of reasons and wanted to cancel the order - somethin
63 Columba: UPS Places Order for 10 Airbus A380 Freighters LOUISVILLE, Jan. 10, 2005 - Moving to expand the capacity of its air network to accommodate strong int
64 F4N: To all: I think that the shortcomings of the A380 as a freighter are pretty well known and certainly understood by Airbus. That said, they pursued th
65 CV747: Hi all, now it gets interresting. I heard today that Airbus is trying to put pressure on Cargolux, through the Frensh government to opt for A380F. But
66 A342: Well, the MD 11, DC 10, B 767, A 300 and A310 can´t either so i highly doubt that this is vital for route planning.
67 Cv747: Does CV have any MD11, DC10, B767, A300 or A310? The reason why this is important for CV is that they evaluated that the A380F would suit certain rou
68 Trex8: IIRC the A380F can carry a Trent 900 with minimal disassembly but not a GP7200, or maybe it was a Trent 1000 and a GEnX, any way it was some obscure
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