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A380 Main Landing Gear  
User currently offlineLiedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 24266 times:

Hey Sports fans

A buddy of mine who works at Boeing sent me some Airbus pics showing extensive Main landing gear damage to the A380 during a taxi test. Lets not turn this into an A vs B.











If it was said by us, then it must be true.
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKFLLCFII From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3303 posts, RR: 30
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 24242 times:

I'm amazed they didn't blow!


"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4335 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 24242 times:

Quoting Liedetectors (Thread starter):
Lets not turn this into an A vs B.

Why not? I think just by the mere fact we log onto A.Net we all love a good (but clean) debate. Besides, when has a topic like this not turned into an A v. B forum?

On to the topic at hand, I can tell you some know-it-alls (no names mentioned but we all know who they are) will want to know what the circumstances were for the damage. And you can add me to those who want to know. By way of example, did the damage occur during a test that took the a/c outside of it's designed performance parameters??



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineLiedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 24226 times:

Results of landing gear abuse tests. Tug was used and a/c steering system was shut off to prevent gears from steering. Plane was then tugged into a 90 degree turn. Tires and possibly wheels were damaged, but the gears didnt snap or fold in. Test was successful.


If it was said by us, then it must be true.
User currently offlineFumanchewd From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 24206 times:

This was actually initiated by Ferrari for refusing to allow a change to the taxi-way causing a second Michelin controversy. Wink

User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 24198 times:

I find that amazing. That's a tough airplane!

Watching it must have been something to see and hear. Like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Mark


User currently offlineBaylorAirBear From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2913 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 24167 times:

Extensive?

So the tug pulled the plane sideways? Can someone paint me a better picture? Thanks for the pics Liedetectors.

Thanks,
BaylorAirBear



I'm just skipping stones...
User currently offlineLiedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 24153 times:

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 4):
This was actually initiated by Ferrari for refusing to allow a change to the taxi-way causing a second Michelin controversy.

Not funny, and way off topic.



If it was said by us, then it must be true.
User currently offlineRedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4335 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 24126 times:

Liedetectors: I'll be damned! After 7 posts and not a single "the 380 is doomed to failure" comment. My, my, how A.Net has become so civil! I don't know if I should be sad or elated.

Another question: what are the requirements for the test to be deemed "successful"? Does she have to withstand such stresses without any damage whatsoever? Or are they looking to make sure the landing gear posts remain intact even if the tires did blow (which obviously they didn't)?



My other home is a Piper Cherokee 180C
User currently offlineLiedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 24104 times:

I'd go with sad-the al.net crew is letting me down with no the world is going to end scenarios.

To answer your question, for the tests to be successful, the gear must withstand such scenarios 1) without entering the material region of plastic deformation and 2) without any cracks being formed. Checking for cracks is done either with a penetrant test or ultrasonically (preferred).



If it was said by us, then it must be true.
User currently offlineC133 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 24103 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 3):
Results of landing gear abuse tests. Tug was used and a/c steering system was shut off to prevent gears from steering

Does the A380 have steerable main gear or not? I got the same email and I think the text said it does not. Was steerable gear disabled for the test or is it not there? Does anyone know?



Fine: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: Fine for doing well.
User currently offlineLiedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 24090 times:

A LIE HAS BEEN DETECTED! The rear axle of the main gear is steerable, but the steering system was in fact not active during this test. This is the same as can be found on the 777. A-380 wing gears are not steerable to the best of my knowledge.


If it was said by us, then it must be true.
User currently offlineKdeg00 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 24068 times:

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 7):
Not funny, and way off topic.

Well, way off topic but actually funny.

Backing up, is the landing gear test to determine what would happen in case of a steering failure during landing/takeoff or to determine the effect of a steering loss during taxi necessitating quick removal from the taxiway or active ?


User currently offlineLiedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 24048 times:

Mainly to detect if incompetent and/or hurried tug operations can cause structural damage to the aircraft and/or the landing gear. The effect of losing the rear-axle steering should result in only tire scrubbing during taxi, which is acceptable unlike structural damage.


If it was said by us, then it must be true.
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 months 2 weeks ago) and read 24036 times:

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 1):
I'm amazed they didn't blow!

The Thermal Fuseplugs cause a deflation.

Amazing LG.Not much damage encountered. bigthumbsup 
Any Video link of the test.
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 23865 times:

Where they spinning doughnuts in the parking lot?

User currently offlineTGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 874 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 23767 times:

Quoting Liedetectors (Reply 13):
Mainly to detect if incompetent and/or hurried tug operations can cause structural damage to the aircraft and/or the landing gear.

Like what is described in the following post ?

NWA 747 Breaks Main Gear (by Hammer Jul 21 2005 in Civil Aviation)



Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
User currently offlineBlue787 From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 23700 times:

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 4):
This was actually initiated by Ferrari for refusing to allow a change to the taxi

What has Airbus got to do with Ferrari???Stick to the subject matter.


User currently offlineMacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1046 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 23532 times:

question:

in the 2nd pic - when you watch the skidmarks, is that bitumen folding up?



I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 23519 times:

Quoting Macc (Reply 18):
question:

in the 2nd pic - when you watch the skidmarks, is that bitumen folding up?

Was thinking the same thing. I reckon it is cause it doesn't look like rubber. And the tyre looks normal not very worn. If it's rubber you should see the missing parts from the tyre. But on the other hand you can't really see where that tarmac should come from. It doesn't look folded up way down.
So maybe some specialist will shed some light on it..

Cheers



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlinePawsleykat From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1978 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 23347 times:

Quoting RedFlyer (Reply 8):
and not a single "the 380 is doomed to failure" comment.

But why should the A380 be doomed to failure and not success?
And again, this is rich coming from me as 4 months ago I hated the bloody thing!
When you see the A380 from upclose - I believe - it's really cool. Seeing it with your own eyes and not those of a cameraman, you can understand the technology that goes into these planes and in a way you want it to be a success.
God, that was a great day at Toulouse. 27-4-2005.  bigthumbsup   eyepopping 



First Class passengers are my favourites. They can't get any further forward without an ATPL.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17054 posts, RR: 67
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 23257 times:

Quoting BaylorAirBear (Reply 6):
So the tug pulled the plane sideways? Can someone paint me a better picture?



Quoting C133 (Reply 10):
Does the A380 have steerable main gear or not?

IIRC, the wing gear and the last axle of each body gear is steerable. In a tight turn, the plane pivots around a point somewhere between the 4 main gear sets. If you turn off steering the wheels are forced sideways during a turn instead of following neatly. The rubber on the ground will of course resist this, resulting in damage.

Quoting Blue787 (Reply 17):
Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 4):
This was actually initiated by Ferrari for refusing to allow a change to the taxi

What has Airbus got to do with Ferrari???Stick to the subject matter.

I thought it was pretty funny. But I guess you have to follow Formula One to get the joke.


ËDIT: for clarity.

[Edited 2005-07-21 13:50:23]


"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineFrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3775 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 23131 times:

I'm terribly sorry about my untrained eyes, but I don't see any sign of damage from any of those pictures (apart from apparent damage inflicted to the asphalt...)

Tires bent as they were supposed to, they're rubber, but if you place the a/c correctly on the ground again, i.e. remove the loads from the tires, they'll go back to their original shape, and I got 10 bucks that say they'll even be airworthy again...

Now the only damage that could be found is invisible damage such as cracks in the gear metal structure, but like that, from the pictures, it all looks good!



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineGearup From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 578 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 23010 times:

This sort of test sure makes a mess of the tarmac. Given that the scrubbing tire dug into the asphalt and the tires were so deformed, I imagine the pull on the nose gear to turn the aircraft must have been significant. Must have used a powerful tug!

GU



I have no memory of this place.
User currently offlineFlybyguy From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 1801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 22962 times:

Quoting Gearup (Reply 23):
This sort of test sure makes a mess of the tarmac. Given that the scrubbing tire dug into the asphalt and the tires were so deformed, I imagine the pull on the nose gear to turn the aircraft must have been significant. Must have used a powerful tug!

The "pull" of the tug has nothing to do with it really it's just that the main gear are offset (underwing gear mostly in front of belly gear)


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © André Costa - Lisbon Spotters



Turning this plane 90-degrees has the same effect on the main gear as turning a car (90-degrees for instance) on all four wheels around the transmission not a pretty sight unless all your wheels can steer.



"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
25 EuroBonus : Just wondered how big are the tyres exactly? More than 2 metres high? Would be great to be able to compare to other tyres.
26 NorCal : That is amazing that those tires stood up to that. I think the only thing that failed this test was the asphalt.
27 Post contains images Harry : coool....nice photos thanks for the updates
28 C680 : Having been around a tire that exploded due to over inflation, I was thinking that whoever took those photos was either a little nuts, or had no idea
29 Post contains links PKK : ????? http://www.airliners.net/discussions...eneral_aviation/read.main/2221726/
30 Cpsarras : What is bitumen? cp
31 BoeingFever777 : I understand the test and the results of it... my question is: How does a person from Boeing get ahold of Airbus testing pictures? Aren't results of
32 Bigsmile : What Damage would that be????????? All that you have is a deformed tyre. If you saw a slow motion picture of an under carriage on landing it would sc
33 BuyantUkhaa : Asphalt, tarmac, macadam, you name it. What comes to my mind is: if the surface of the taxiway (or wherever they did this) can be damaged this badly,
34 Post contains links AMSSFO : Great pics, although I do not see any damage just flexible tyres. Impressive, but nothing to worry about. He likely got it from a well-known aviation
35 TheCheese : What comes to my mind is: if the surface of the taxiway (or wherever they did this) can be damaged this badly, how high is the wheel load? We know the
36 Jamie757 : I would be very interested to see this.... Rgds.
37 Liedetectors : A LIE HAS BEEN DETECTED! Normally I would not honor this statement with a response, but to clear things up, because rumors are rampantly snowballed h
38 Liedetectors : Bitumen is synonymous with rubber or other hydrocarbon mixtures. The tarmac wasn't damaged, what is visible is mostly rubber rubbed onto the tarmac. M
39 Kappel : Nah, not that high. There are pictures of the a380 under construction with people standing next to the wheels. I would guess about 1,20 m. high. Anyb
40 Boeingfever777 : There is nothing there. How as lie been detected? I asked how ppl at Boeing have access to Airbus test info? C133? I'm an outsider what does that hav
41 AMSSFO : I did not intend to accuse you or your buddy or anyone else of illegal activities. If interpreted that way, I am sorry. I just wanted to make clear t
42 BaylorAirBear : All hail Liedetectors, great and powerful bullshit artist.
43 BoeingFever777 : Ok that's great I was out of town and do not live on a.net and was unaware the pics were ever posted. However that still does not answer my question!
44 Cpsarras : I beg to differ, in pic no 2, that is mostly asphalt ground up, not just rubber. both outside tires dug in a bit, scraping the tarmac top. The inside
45 Liedetectors : I would ask you to tell me what I said was BS, but I dont want to get off topic.
46 Liedetectors : The pictures are clearly from Airbus, and my buddy works for Boeing who got them. Who cares where they came from. I just thought I would post some co
47 Knoxibus : We got these pics here in Airbus straight after they were taken, and as you guessed the tests were ok. Imagine one of us (just an example) has a buddy
48 RedFlyer : Thanks, Knoxibus, for putting some perspective back in this thread, especially since it's coming from a dedicated A employee such as yourself. Some o
49 Post contains links BoeingFever777 : There is no extensive landing gear damage. Personally I think your trying to bash Airbus and there product by lieing about landing gear damage. Also
50 Tavve : Your buddy is a B person and therefore probably not fully objective. According to those pics there is no damage at all. It's just interesting pics th
51 Jush : Well i'm not a professional but the tyres don't seem to be deflated at all. I concur with the top layer tarmac scrubbed away though. How do you concl
52 Liedetectors : Alright BoeingFever777. To clear up this issue that you seem to be having with our credibility. Me and my buddy went in on it to make the LieDetector
53 AMSSFO : Yes that post was deleted; I haven't seen it either and I do not know the reasons for removement either. It might be violation of copyright, I don't
54 Post contains images Scorpio : Hey I used to play cop and yell 'HANDS UP OR I'LL SHOOT!!!!' when I saw a suspect, kind of like you with your 'A LIE HAS BEEN DETECTED!!!!'. Fun. The
55 Wukka : Actually, I think that Liedetectors was going for the point that: A) There really isn't significant damage to the gear B) The pictures look really ba
56 Liedetectors : Bingo. Its "they" actually. Be on the look out for more great info from the LieDetectors!
57 Post contains images Cpsarras : Well, I think just by looking at them, they are much more deformed than the outside set, which means they have less air. Otherwise the outside set sh
58 Backfire : The pictures, and the explanation, have been kicking around on PPRuNe for at least a week...
59 Aa777jr : No one sent you the pictures, you got them off the URL on the internet. What is the point of the thread rather than it being a waste of space on this
60 Liedetectors : First of all, Aa777jr, you're wrong, but thats ok. On the 19th, Airbus distributed letters to airline focals with the following information highlights
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