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AA: Why No Beverages On (very) Delayed Flight?  
User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7881 times:

Was on AA yesterday flying DFW-ATL as a connection from SFO.

Flight was scheduled to depart DFW at 5:19 p.m. Boarding occurred on schedule, and just as we had finally finished loading and were ready to push back, the captain came on and said our departure would be delayed by at least 2.5 hours due to wx in ATL AND we'd have to spend the delay on the ramp because we had to give up our gate at DFW.

It was about 95 degrees outside and the airplane was scorching in the blazing Dallas heat. The crew did their best to keep the jet cool (used an external generator) but regardless the packed plane was an oven.

My main frustration was that they didn't offer to bring any beverages around to help us cool down a bit. The attendants did provide some room-temperature water, but I was expecting that they'd offer softdrinks and ice during the delay.

Is there some policy against doing this? We were offered full beverage service once we were airborne 3 hours later.

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7834 times:

Didn't you see AA turned a profit . . . wonder how much they saved roasting the passengers for 2 1/2 hours?

User currently offlineTheFLCowboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7832 times:

On all the delayed flights ive been on (mostly DL), I have never been offered anything other than water unless I was in first.

It probably has something to do with the way the plane is catered based on expected flight time. A DFW-ATL flight, they may do 2 cabin services. It adds a lot of extra weight to carry extra cokes for a delay that might not even happen.

MD



A318, A320, A332, A333, B1900, B722, B732, B733, B734, B735, B737, B738, B772, CR1, CR2, CR7, CR9, MD80, MD81, MD82, MD8
User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7829 times:

They did worse on my dads flight last week DFW-MIA. the IF Meals for $2...if you can call it a meal...were NOT avialable and they were delayed about 2 1/2 hours on the ground as well. So, my dad did not eat and he got no meal as promised by AA. I'm not sure if he got a drink or not.

User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7784 times:

Typical AA. Still doesn’t beat my DFW-OAK segment in 2001.

After FOUR hours of sitting on the runway ~ NO DRINKS ~ near riot like conditions insinuated in the coach cabin.

And I understand wx.

But at least do something – and don’t blame it on weather – even if that was the initial cause. It was their bad business model.

 spin 


User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7771 times:

After having departure time moved back three times (amounting to about an hour), we were told after we had taxied out (and the ominous sound of engine shutdown could be heard) that nobody was leaving O'Hare for at least 90 minutes and then, after that, we were #15 for takeoff. The pilot then said they were going to send planes off one every three minutes, so "you do the math." This was an Eagle flight on a packed CRJ...Surprisingly, all of the buy onboard snacks and beverages were distributed for free...and they did another service in the air, again with no charge. It was quite a pleasant surprise, given that my AA experiences had been consistently abysmal up to that point. So, is this a company policy thing, or is the crew given discretion in such situations, if for no other reason than to prevent a riot?


Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineCrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1865 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7769 times:

If anybody wants to defend AA on this complaint, then they should have their head examined. It is just another way the airlines show their true colors today. It is inhumane to not offer at least water on a delay like this...As for catering, I doubt that was the issue. If the flight was at DFW, there should not have been any issue of getting provisions onboard this aircraft. While I cannot fault any airline for a weather delay (even though some airlines have used this excuse on occasion just to avoid being responsible for their own induced problem), it does not give them the right to abuse their passengers. Shame on AA and other airlines (NW) that have found it perfectly acceptable to treat their customers like animals in a cage!

User currently offlineTexdravid From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7743 times:

I have flown AA, CO, and UA all within the last month, and for comparable segments, lengths, and times.

I must say that AA comes in DEAD LAST in inflight food. CO gave a hot meal from IAH-PHL, UA gave free snacks IAH-DEN, while AA did not give anything but peanuts on LAX-DFW.

My brother flew HNL-DFW on a flight that left HNL at 6pm and did not receive a meal service!!

I flew KONA-DEN that same evening and received TWO free meals!!

I further found CO and UA flight attendants were more friendly and courteous.



Tort reform now. Throw lawyers in jail later.
User currently offlineA320FA From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 87 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7699 times:

The situation you encounter should have never happen on AA.. At HP we are required (company policy) to provide soft drinks to Pax on delays over 60min another good reason to fly a LCC. If we are away from the gate we still provide soft drinks with the captains approval. (The flight Deck will always approve.)

User currently offlineQQflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2266 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7679 times:

AA does not serve peanuts... LAX-DFW should be catered with Tostito chips or pretzels, possibly BOB if the flight is blocked at over three hours in either direction. LAX-DFW probably comes in just under that.

The FAA prohibits carts from being brought into the aisle while on the ground. Any service done has to be done by hand. Provisioning is another issue. You either drink on the ground, or inflight. There is not usually enough for both. We do, however, provide water or any other non-alcohol beverage in main cabin upon request. What ever happened to people asking for what they want? FAs are relunctant to begin a full beverage service by hand since take-off times can and do often change.

For those that think the aircraft should just be recatered, you are underestimating the complexities of a hub airport. First, it is highly unlikely the aircraft could get further catering once it has pushed off the gate. Second, those catering trucks are on tight schedules and contain food and beverage only for the flights for which they are scheduled.

Water, at the very least, is always available and may be offered by the flight attendants. However, if you ever feel you need or want it, simply ask. How could we possibly know what you want if you don't ask?



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7674 times:

I'll tell you exactly why.. Say the Flight Attendants go ahead and give out cold drinks and full drink service. Then just as they finish ATC gives the crew a go ahead to depart. Then what...? They're screwed..!! They can't depart or even move until all the drinks are picked back up and all the tray tables are secured.


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7644 times:

That's why I bring a Subway sandwich, a few bottles of Dew, and various snacks in my backpack on all my flights. You'd think others would eventually catch onto the common sense.

Mark


User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7624 times:

Hmmm, my last time on the US Airways Shuttle from DCA-LGA, we were held on the ramp for about an hour because of weather at LGA and the F/As did a drink service while on the ground.

Perhaps it is up to the F/As....


User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7584 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 10):
I'll tell you exactly why.. Say the Flight Attendants go ahead and give out cold drinks and full drink service. Then just as they finish ATC gives the crew a go ahead to depart. Then what...? They're screwed..!! They can't depart or even move until all the drinks are picked back up and all the tray tables are secured.

Bingo! Pilots rarely know exactly how long the delay will be. ATC can give you estimates but if the weather (or traffic) clears for a minute, you might be given an opportunity to leave with a minutes notice. If you miss your departure slot you might be stuck on the ground for another hour. This is the reason you wait on the plane in the first place, rather than waiting in the gate. If you waited at the gate, it'd be quite easy to miss your slot because of the time it takes to board and push back the aircraft.

pilottim747



Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2027 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7573 times:

First a story, then the reality.

I had a similar experience on a Delta flight from JFK-SFO. To start off, there was bad weather all over the midwest, and the captain came on and told us the flight time was going to be 7 hours and 40 minutes. Normal flight time to SFO is 5:30. The extra two hours was due to the fact that he was planning to fly around the weather over Canada and then down over northern Montana and sw into SFO. Due to the extra flight time, they had boarded additional beverages and snacks, but the same meal service was planned for the flight.

We pushed back on time and we were pulled out for startup. We started up both engines and then we taxied out to the inner taxiway parallel to 31L and stopped. Not only did we stop, the captain shut down the engines, at which point he told us all departures to the west have been stopped indefinitely due to weather between Cleveland and Chicago. You can imagine the backup that caused. We sat in that position for one hour. During that time, nothing happened. We just sat. After an hour, the captain came on and told us that the weather had cleared for departures to the west, but we were continuing on our flight plan over Canada, due to the fact that the storms over the midwest were causing signficant turbulence all the way up to FL430. There was no way we could fly through it...so we had to go around it.

However, there was a new problem. There was only one runway available for departures, 4L. Due to the hour wait, a significant back up of aircraft had occured. We were 78th in line to take off. The captain estimated another two hours before we could get airborne. So we started one engine and began to taxi. We moved onto the parallel taxiway and stopped once again. After 10 minutes of waiting, the captain shut down again. We sat for about 30 minutes, again with nothing happening. After 1:30, the captain started up again and started moving, very slowly, we taxied for about 30 minutes. During the taxi, the f/a's passed headsets around and started a movie in the cabin, considering the fact that the captain said it would be up to two hours before we could depart, they decided to show a movie to keep people occupied and in their seats.

After another 30 minutes of taxiing, the captain pulled to the side and stopped and shut down a third time. Evidently, there were passengers who now needed to use the restrooms and the f/a's were getting quite a number of distress calls from the passengers. We parked for about 30 minutes while everyone who needed a restroom used one. Once everyone was seated, he started up again, and we started taxiing again. Now, we were on the parallel runway for 4L with about 20 aircraft in front of us, and we could see the end of the runway. We crossed 31L and taxied for another 30 minutes before we got to the hold point for 4L. En total, we were on the ground for 3:50 before we reached the hold point. Once we were there, we held for about five minutes, then taxied into position and took off right away and started heading north east toward Boston before we made the turn northwest headed toward Toronto.

During the entire 3 hours and 50 minutes we were on the ground, Delta served water only upon request. They did not make any effort what so ever to do a beverage service, or pass around any snacks. This would make an average passenger quite angry. However, I always pack a liter of water and 3-4 snack bars in my carry on just in case of emergencies, so I was set for a few hours if necessary and in this case, I needed them...so I was not bothered.

However, as an airline manager, I understood why Delta did not do a beverage service, nor feed people on the ground even during the long delay and taxi. Here's why:

1) Safety. The captain was trying to continue moving the airplane as best he could. He stopped the aircraft occassionally for two reasons: a) because it was clear he could not move and b) he knew that the passengers needed to move around, go to the bathroom, etc. So when he could, he stopped, shut down and let people move around for a period of time. During that time, if people went to the galley, they could get water (I know, because I went and they had water out back there).

2) Rationing. If they used up all their water before we departed, we would have had to return to the gate. One of the catering requirements is that the aircraft does not go airborne without an adequate bottled water supply for the length of the flight. They had boarded extra water because of the longer flight plan, but if they had given out water freely, they would have burned through that water supply and would have ended up short halfway through the flight. Passenger dehydration is a real problem at altitude and water must be given to the passengers to keep them hydrated at all times during the flight.
Other beverages cannot be served because carts cannot be used while on the ground (FAA rule). Beverages would have had to have been served by hand and to do that, they would have burned through their ice supply. Running out of ice half way to SFO would have been a serious problem as well.

3) Food service: Why no snacks? The only snacks that could have been given out would have been the pretzel snacks which are bathed in salt brine. The salt increases thirst and would have created an even worse situation vis a vis water usage on the ground. So, no snacks. Plus, when you give people salty snacks and water, they also have to go to the bathroom. We had a full ship (205 passengers), which would have meant more people going to the bathroom which would have delayed us more on the ground, which would have eaten more into the fuel used for taxiing. As the captain had the good sense to use one engine for taxiing and then only used it when we had to move, we were able to conserve enough fuel to not burn into the reserve, which would have meant going back to the gate to be refueled.

So if you can imagine all those scenarios, you might begin to see why in a long delay why flight attendants might not serve drinks or feed you during a long delay. Ideally, they want you in your seats while engines are running. If the captain shuts the engines down, then you should be able to get up and stretch, but only if the seatbelt sign is off.

My advice to you is to carry a liter of water and 3-4 high protein snack bars in your carry on for cases like this. In this way, you have food and water to carry you for up to six to eight hours if you are stuck in an airplane. In my case, I was on that airplane for a grand total of 12:19 minutes (from the moment I got on to the moment I got off) All for what was suppose to be a 5:30 flight. The flight was to arrive at 9:30pm, I arrived at 2:30am...and yes, I was late to the office the next morning.

Some good advice from someone who has fought this battle more than once.
Although, I must admit, this experience was by far my worst. However, once we were airborne, Delta did a good job of taking good care of me, all the way to SFO. Of course, I was in Business Class, so I got a decent meal and some sleep. The only bad thing was my back hurt really bad the next day, from sitting in a meeting all day, then sitting in an airplane all night. So much for the glamour of being a road warrior.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlinePiedmontINT From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7484 times:

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 14):

Right on the money!! Great story and great advice.. Just go by the Boy Scout motto and BE PREPARED! I know that i always take a snack of some kind whether its Mickey D's, or just a pack of Skittles on a flight. Whether I get hungry in the middle of a flight since getting a meal is practically out of the question on a domestic flight, or just in case of a long delay, I bring a water, a soda, and whatever food I choose.

Quoting QQflyboy (Reply 9):
However, if you ever feel you need or want it, simply ask. How could we possibly know what you want if you don't ask?

Very well put, do people really expect the F/A's to read the pax's minds and take their vital signs on the ramp while waiting to see if they need a drink of water? If it is hot and I am feeling crappy, by God I wont sit on my ass and take it! Just asking them politely and I am sure they will be glad to help because it is just as hot for them in there too...


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7477 times:

SO many well thought out and logical excuses for an airline NOT to serve drinks on the ground during an extended delay - lots of rational and intellegent reasons for poor service, I think we have many potential airline execs in this forum.

The flight attendants can take out a tray or 2 and a sleeve of cups and some ice, pour cups of water and cola, and hand them out in say 2 minutes time. If the capatain gets an unexpected earlier clearance, the galley can be locked down in a moments time.

With respect to the DL flight, if the captain shut down the engines for 30 minutes and let pax use the restrooms, the f/a s could have gone around and served some drinks - really?!


User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 7470 times:

Flew BA citiexpress to FRA. We had a ground stop in MAN due to FOG in FRA
They came round with juice which was nice


User currently offlineSK601 From Belgium, joined Jun 2005, 976 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7441 times:

With KLM, the purser can order extra drinks and snacks from KLM-Catering if the delay is expected to be more then 1 hour (could be 45 min, but I'm not sure). This can be the case when pax are onboard and there is a tec problem just before departure or when the flight will get a long ATC restriction. Catering will bring cups of apple juice and "gevulde koeken" (cookies filled with kind of almondpulp; it's a dutch specialty )  vomit  , also called "delay cookies".
This extra order of drinks and snacks will not effect the regular service during flight.


User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7304 times:

To AA’s defense, they like to play the wx and ATC excuse. And the pilots are played by that.

But they don’t do you know what or get off the pot like some other airline.

To a lesser extent, I think these silly 3 and 4 hour delays are a by-product of legacy carrier’s super-fortress hub and spoke design.

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 14):
We were 78th in line to take off.

SEVENTY-what!!! Ahhh!



Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 15):
Just go by the Boy Scout motto and BE PREPARED!

Alas, simper partus! (I believe that is the Coast Guard’s slogan)

I usually have a bottle of water and a flask of illicit substance to kill the pain.

  

[Edited 2005-07-21 15:21:49]

User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7267 times:

When I used to work flights, I always checked for ATC delays PRIOR to boarding. I made it VERY clear to passengers that they would be delayed on the ramp for an extended period, and if they want extra, buy it now.

User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5181 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 7222 times:

Another reason that there was no service is that AA is now double catering aircraft at the hubs. I've notice at ATL, particularly if there is limited food for First, that the catering truck is not pulling up to the plane upon arrival.

That means that at ORD, MIA, or DFW, they are putting on double loads of beverages and Tostitos. So, if the F/As started serving beverages, there might not be enough for the return from ATL.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13040 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 7192 times:

I recall on a flight 9/10/05 SEA-EWR on CO (737) and a far from full flight, after some confusion we boarded and taxied to one end of the airport and sat their, engines shut down for an hour or so due to scheduled construction on some runways/taxiways at EWR. I believe one could get or they passed out cups of water and or juice, and even started the IFE service. This probably could be done as there was a defined period of time we had to sit, and probably due to the light load had enough provisions. We still had full food/bev/snack service once in the air, including their hot sandwich, chips, dessert meal service. I felt that CO did it well. Even on some majors when delays, I have seen water passed out to the pax.

User currently offline767Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 7161 times:

I (we) did have water with us BUT we had purchased it in SFO before we boarded. Since we had a bottle each left for the DFW-ATL leg (and only a 30 min layover) we didn't purchase any other provisions in DFW except for 2 cookies.

The water eventually became "room temperature" on the flight SFO-DFW and it was very warm on the delay and really of no use as a cooling agent.

BTW, I wasn't expecting them to recater...I figured given the choice people would rather have the beverage during the scorching hot layover as opposed to inflight. However, I didn't realize there was a rule about the cart on the ground and about having enough on board while IN flight.

As a side, we had purchased sandwiches in SFO as well to take on board (which we ate on the way to DFW)...damn lucky we did, because 1) the DFW layover wouldn't have been enough to buy anything, 2) the $3 buy-on-board snack was not substantial (I had purchased the same snack on the outbound--chips, salsa and a cookie) and 3) the delay would have meant not eating anything substantial for almost 10 hours.


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 7160 times:

Crownvic:
Take a pill and relax. They did run a water service. Go re-read the original post.


25 N1120A : There is a specific reason for that. HP's hubs are the two hottest major cities in the US
26 Post contains images FLAIRPORT : I wish I could recall flights that haven't happened before
27 Apodino : I know at ZW, when something like this happens, the flight attendants are authorized to serve alcohol at no charge at their discretion in situations l
28 JrMafia90 : I was delayed for 4 hours last year on a plane on August 11 due to a bomb scare at FCO. They didn't offer a thing. I think if they offer it they won't
29 Positiverate : HP is hardly a LCC...
30 CRFLY : Oh man... I'm sooooo tired of AA!!! Last Monday (July 18) I was flying from Miami (MIA) to San Jose (SJO) on the evening's AA Scarebus, scheduled to d
31 Pualani : Working a MSP-ACA-MSP charter for HA on a L-1011 late 80's, we were diverted to CLE on the last leg because of weather. We were among many diverted he
32 Goomba : In response to 767Lover's original post. I was at DFW on 7/11 - one day after Hurricane Dennis reaked havoc on ATL. I too was on the AA 5:30 PM depart
33 Post contains images GQfluffy : More like shame on you for expecting unrealistic things. We who work for airlines aren't Gods. We also just can't bend over and say "Thank you sir, m
34 AAgent : Please note per the original post... water was served. Respectfully, AAgent
35 BoeingFever777 : Defend them for what they offered water. You are paying to fly not for a 5star meal here with mineral water etc. Your head should be examined first!
36 Palladium : About few years ago, I was flying with Garuda Indonesia from CGK. The plane was having technical difficulties and we got delayed for about 1 1/2 hours
37 Jetdeltamsy : EMBQA got it exactly right. There is also the issue of using up the beverage supply before take-off leaving nothing for the duration of the flight. T
38 Skyguy : In a nutshell, what used to be the "full-service" carriers like AA are nothing but airlines run by beggars, they can not afford anything at all so muc
39 767Lover : Just came back to this with fresh eyes. Really, what is wrong with wanting to be served an iced beverage that's ALREADY on board, to help cool you off
40 DeltaGuy767 : With all due respect you seem to be the only individual who has not agreed with Baw716's astute post-situation analysis. Although it may seem to you
41 Post contains images GOAQ : It's sad that you didn't get more than water on your delay. Nowadays you can't depend on ANY airline to give you something JUST BECAUSE!!! Some of the
42 GOAQ : As far as the heat, yeah I hear you. I hate it myself. But here is another part of the cutbacks. Not running the APU at the gate regardless if it's 10
43 Gman3 : Amazing how many posts to this issue. They were offered water on the ground. If you wanted something different you should have gone back and asked. It
44 Nonrevman : In AA's defense, I will say that it was probably necessary to shut engines down because of the anticipated delay. We had this happen going to and from
45 Reins485 : This is my first time posting on Airliners but I have read the forums for a while. Anyway in defense of AA, the FAA has rules that state the all servi
46 Baw716 : GOAQ Just an observation, but why would American overcater the flight ex SFO for a beverage service from DFW-ATL? To me that sounds really penny wise
47 Ikramerica : Yep. All airlines behave this way... not. It's AA, and it's not just "today" as they did the same sort of crap in the 80s and 90s on delayed flights
48 Flflyguy : This has been discussed to death. Not having been on the original flight, I will neither defend nor criticize the crew for what they did/did not serve
49 Post contains images Flyingbronco05 : If you people don't like the way the airlines are treating you, charter a jet next time.
50 TACAA320 : No need for that. Just try another airline.
51 Ckfred : Here is what I don't understand about airlines and passengers. In almost any business, providers of goods and services work on the notion that the bet
52 Post contains images AAtakeMeAway : ??? HUH ??? I thought that becoming an LCC was the core of their big turnaround a couple of years ago.... On a side-note, I was on an F9 flight from
53 TACAA320 : At least is better than AA.
54 Used2beAA : Because then there wouldn't be anything to bitch about, would there???? VERY good post by the way.
55 Aa777jr : Had delays like this before at DFW during the winter months with deicing and waiting for "technical" issues to be resolved. Waited about 3 hours on pl
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