FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4003 posts, RR: 6 Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3200 times:
No.
The 777-200LR and -300ER still have superior range and much larger capacity than the largest 787 model. Many people (on these boards anyway) feel that Boeing will eventually make a 787-10 to replace the 777-200ER, but any replacement to the -200LR and/or -300ER will need to be a new aircraft.
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3137 times:
I think the knowledge and the technologies from the 787 line will be added to the 777 line making it even more economically viable for air carriers....
if Boeing can't make the 777-200LR do the LHR-SYD-LHR run right now, I wouldn't be surprised they eventually incorporate some 787 technology and do it.....might be a few years away, but it seems as if it is more of a question of "when" rather than "if"....
Brons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 2969 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3126 times:
I think the -200 length, yes all versions, will eventually be replaced by 787-10.
However, the 777-300's wider fuselage is better for the higher passenger loads carried. The 773ER is the ultimate in 777 economics and will sell for quite some time IMHO.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
DeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1289 posts, RR: 19 Reply 4, posted (7 years 10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2857 times:
You cant replace the 773 with a streched 787.Since the 787 has one aisle across less then the 777, it is always going to be a little smaller, so to make up for that, you would have to strecht it more. So a 773 replacement from the 787 would have to be full 80 metres long- which wont happen
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Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15867 posts, RR: 66 Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2843 times:
Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 5): Since the 787 has one aisle across less then the 777, it is always going to be a little smaller, so to make up for that, you would have to strecht it more.
I think you mean one seat column?
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FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4003 posts, RR: 6 Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2799 times:
Quoting Brons2: However, the 777-300's wider fuselage is better for the higher passenger loads carried.
Erm, the 777-300 has the exact same fuselage width as a 777-200.
TomFoolery From Austria, joined Jan 2004, 492 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (7 years 10 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2761 times:
so the 787 will fit somewhere between the 767 and 777, which the 777 will fit between the 787 and the 747. with the gaping void left between the 767 and the 737 (yes, I realize we are talking twin asle and single asle at this point...), I'm just trying to figure out where boeing's next step is.
Will the 787 have any commonality to the 777 of the 764? there is not a whole lot of commonality between the 744 and the 777/764, but I understand that the 747 ADV will attempt to overcome this to some degree (if i'm wrong please correct me)
It seems to me that commonality will become a big selling point, from flight deck to cabin maintenance.
Comming back to the point, which a/c will be the odd model out, and be subsequently retired?
any thoughts?
tom
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4003 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (7 years 10 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2688 times:
The 787 and 777 will not share a type rating, but I believe a pilot can switch over within 6(?) days. The 747Adv will be getting a new 787-style flight deck, so it should offer a high level of commonality as well. I don't think Boeing is too concerned about commonality with the 767s, as most airlines ordering the 787 would be replacing that type.
AKelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2101 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (7 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2587 times:
Quoting Brons2 (Reply 3): think the -200 length, yes all versions, will eventually be replaced by 787-10.
However, the 777-300's wider fuselage is better for the higher passenger loads carried. The 773ER is the ultimate in 777 economics and will sell for quite some time IMHO.
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 7): Erm, the 777-300 has the exact same fuselage width as a 777-200.
The 777-200LR and -300ER still have superior range and much larger capacity than the largest 787 model. Many people (on these boards anyway) feel that Boeing will eventually make a 787-10 to replace the 777-200ER, but any replacement to the -200LR and/or -300ER will need to be a new aircraft.
A stretched B787-9 could replace the B777-200LR, but only with a new wing. Using the wing from the B787-9, a B787-10 would only replace the B777-200ER.
The longest practical stretch of the B787 would make it the length of the A340-600 (about 75 meters), which would give it a floor area greater than the A340-600 but smaller than the B777-300. Such a B787-11 would need a new wing. That new wing applied to a B787-10 (about 69 meters) would give it better than B777-200LR performance.
Most likely, a B787-10 will replace the B777-200ER and, eventually, an all new model will replace both the B777-300ER and the B747Adv.
AJRfromSYR From United States of America, joined May 2005, 454 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 3 days ago) and read 2438 times:
Quoting TomFoolery (Reply 8): so the 787 will fit somewhere between the 767 and 777, which the 777 will fit between the 787 and the 747. with the gaping void left between the 767 and the 737 (yes, I realize we are talking twin asle and single asle at this point...), I'm just trying to figure out where boeing's next step is.
The 787 will cover the 753-767 family. Maybe the 777-200 also
The 737 Replacement will cover the 737 family -752
DAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2352 times:
They are completely different aircraft with different capacity and range, so the answer is no. If they take the 787 technology and build it into the 777 that would be cool-this will eventually be done but when is anyone's guesstimate.
BlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1702 posts, RR: 4 Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2099 times:
I hope Boeing keeps 777 fuselage in its current form, gives it an all-new wing and makes it fully-composite airframe. The weight savings along with bleedless engines would make it a very nice update to already proven design. Other than the little "heavy" weight in 777-200ER, the plane is perfect...
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2078 times:
>> The weight savings along with bleedless engines would make it a very nice update to already proven design. Other than the little "heavy" weight in 777-200ER, the plane is perfect...
The issue becomes two-fold: cost/benefit ratio and market coverage.
#1. Heavily reworking the 777 with 787-technology would yield a highly competitive product, but at what cost? While not an exact parallel with the A350, Airbus has shown reworking an airplane isn't cheap at all.
If we consider the growth of other Boeing widebodies like the 767 and 777, there is (likely) a good deal of growth potential within the 787 platform. Moreover, the 787 fuselage is only an arms-width narrower than the 777. At that point, it's likely more cost efficent to stretch a year-2008 platform than it is to modernize a year-1995 platform.
Observe the success of the 773ER: invest about $1 billion dollars to beef-up MTOW, rework landing gear, add fuel volume, aerodynamic tweak here, etc, etc. Do the same to the 787-9 with a stretch, and I'd wager my Toyota that it would be more cost effective than modernizing the 777.
#2. Running short on time, but Boeing has to be considering that the Adv is getting close to the end of the 747 legacy. Pure speculation, but allowing the 787 to replace the 772ER would allow Boeing to presue an all-new widebody family (possibly wider than the 747) to replace both the 773ER and 747. While not going head-to-head with the A388, such a product could be tremendously efficent.
Zvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 66 Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2002 times:
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 10): A stretched B787-9 could replace the B777-200LR, but only with a new wing.
Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 13): ....and new gear, and new engines, and a significant increase in fuel storage, and a huge boost in payload capability, and...
The GEnx engines have nearly the same thrust as the earliest GE-90s. I don't doubt that the GEnx could be further developed to provide sufficient thrust. Additional fuel storage is -- along with increased lift -- one of the reasons why a new wing would be needed. Payload capability is easy given a new wing with sufficient lift and the strength versatility of a composite fuselage. Would strengthening the landing gear suffice? What is the maximum permissible ramp weight for a 10 wheeled aircraft?
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 15): Boeing has to be considering that the Adv is getting close to the end of the 747 legacy. Pure speculation, but allowing the 787 to replace the 772ER would allow Boeing to presue an all-new widebody family (possibly wider than the 747) to replace both the 773ER and 747. While not going head-to-head with the A388, such a product could be tremendously efficent.
So, what do you estimate would be the OEW of a 69 meter long B787-10 with a larger wing providing enough lift and fuel capacity to match the payload and range performance of the B777-200LR?
Iberiadc852 From Spain, joined May 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1384 times:
Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 4): Since the 787 has one "aisle" (meaning column) across less then the 777,
Quoting Brons2 (Reply 3): However, the 777-300's wider fuselage is better for the higher passenger loads carried.
From what I have read, the cabin width:
- Of all 777's versions is about 5.80 mts. (19 ft 0.34")
- Of all 787's is 5.74 mts. (18 ft 10")
But, am I the only one who believes that?
By the way, the information I have found is that 789's length is 62.0 mts. (203 ft 4.92 ") while 772's is 63.70 mts. (209 ft) so I think the cabin lenght of both models (and the passengers capacity) should be very similar
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ConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1362 times:
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 20): So, what do you estimate would be the OEW of a 69 meter long B787-10 with a larger wing providing enough lift and fuel capacity to match the payload and range performance of the B777-200LR?
can estimate, but would need to sit down and run some numbers.
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1338 times:
>> But, am I the only one who believes that?
You're comparing the 777's internal diameter to the 787's external diameter. To my knowledge, Boeing has not precisely specified the 787's internal diameter.
In any event, the difference is small: the 787 diameter is perfectly capable of replacing the 772 and even (to a lesser extent) the 773.
Iberiadc852 From Spain, joined May 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (7 years 10 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1250 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 24): You're comparing the 777's internal diameter to the 787's external diameter
Ok. It seems that I was wrong. I just found in Boeing's website that 787's cabin width was 5.74 mts. and I assumed it was the interior one, because, otherwise, following that rule, what would be the "cabin length"?. The fuselage length?. It doesn't sound very logical to me.
Anyway, I have also read that A330-A350 external width is 5.64 mts. and the internal one 5.23 mts. So if 787's external width is 5.74 mts., what's the point of saying that one (and important) advantage of 787 is being capable to have a 8 or 9 abreast while the A350 would be almost restricted to only 8 abreast?
Anyone can show light on this?
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