ChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4359 posts, RR: 2 Posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5767 times:
Here at MHT we're losing MD-88 capacity in exchange for 737-200s. Besides a cut in the number of seats, the 737-200s are less fuel-efficient than the MD-88s, right? I'm just wondering with all the talk about spiraling fuel prices, why a carrier like Delta is still flying 737-200s while parking other supposedly more fuel-efficient planes in the desert. And of course the same holds true for Northwest's DC-9s. My conclusion is that even though these are old planes, they aren't any less efficient than newer planes. Or am I wrong? If a 737-200 needs the same amount of fuel to fly, say, MHT-CVG, as an MD-88...and the MD-88 has a bunch more seats, is that efficient?
DAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5726 times:
The majority of them are leased, and even if DL wanted, they couldn't just drop the leases. Even ending those leases early is not a good solution, as this means some one-time charges that DL has to pay, which can also be quite costly. Not to mention that DL can't just easily replace some 50 100-seaters with other planes within a short time. Of course, DL could reduce flights, but that would put them at a competitive disadvantage.
KLMA330 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 719 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5611 times:
I work by Pearson int'l, and was out walking for lunch the other day when a DL 732 took off... made me wonder the exact same thing.. it was LOUD, and there was a trail of BLACK smoke leaving the engines..
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4794 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5530 times:
Quoting KLMA330 (Reply 2): I work by Pearson int'l, and was out walking for lunch the other day when a DL 732 took off... made me wonder the exact same thing.. it was LOUD, and there was a trail of BLACK smoke leaving the engines..
I guess they have their reasons, but YUCK!
And that my friend is what AVIATION is about. Real metal, thunder down the runway, loud as F*CK engines!
Give me a 737-200 or DC-9 over an whiney A32X anyday!
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5448 times:
Given a choice, DL would stop using the 732 at the first possible moment - although most of DL's 732s are not that old (some of DL's 732s are new than early build 733s), the 732 is not a great airliner when today's fuel prices are considered.
But, what are DL's alternatives? DL is not going to suddenly cut back its route system in the middle of the busy summer travel season. DL does not have aircraft available to replace the 732s at the moment. And, DL is not in the position to purchase or acquire new aircraft to replace the 732s. You probably know that DL posted another huge loss today.
The 732s will be phased out of DL's fleet in the near-term future - there is a already a date planned for the 732's retirement from the fleet but I cannot remember it, one of our DL experts probably know the exact timeframe. The type will not be directly replaced: the plan is to increase utilization of other types (especially the MD88s), cut some frequencies on some routes, and probably some segments will be picked up by regional operators.
DALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2801 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5180 times:
They are leaving. We have a bunch of -200 and -300 sitting on the ramp in ATL waiting to go back to the lessors. They can't go all at once for a few reasons. First is the lease agreement. Also we can only do so many at a time due to all the work that is required to return them. each lessor has inspection requirements before they take them back. Finnally what will replace them? The plan was for Repulic to start flying with the EMB170, but it sounds like they are having problems.
727EMflyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5181 times:
There is a lot more to operating costs than just fuel and lease payments. How about maintenance costs? Pilot training and availability? Landing fees? Capacity vs. loads? I don't know specifics, but there was talk a while back of DL eliminating a fleet type. Somewhere the math must justify keeping the 732 around a bit longer than the MD-88. (If they are retiring it and not just shuffling service around). Even though there is a generation gap the 732 should share some parts commonality with the 733 and 738, and pilots should be able to fly either type (or at least have a quicker training transition). I don't know weights, but is a 732 lighter than an MD-88? If so then it will have lower landing fees. Another thing to think about is loads. Are the -88's going out full the majority of the time? Are the loads close enough to a full 732 to justify the cost of fewer paying pax over the cost of more empty seats?
And a final thought, in case any of the aircraft in question are owned, which one is more likely to sell rather than sit in the desert?
Jush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1638 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4261 times:
Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4): And that my friend is what AVIATION is about. Real metal, thunder down the runway, loud as F*CK engines!
Give me a 737-200 or DC-9 over an whiney A32X anyday!
Way to go! sir!
And the black smoke is still not the worst part of exhaust it's just unburned carbon. A zillion times less dangerous than the NOx emissions you can't clearly see dudes... loves those rockets! I saw an Lanchile 732 in SCL....
That's what i call mother******* aviation!
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
Citation501SP From United States of America, joined May 2000, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3794 times:
Ah, it is a sight slowly disappearing. Nothing turns peoples heads on the ground than a jet thundering down the runway in on a humid day in the summer. If the windows rattle in the terminal even better. I was at MSP, and DTW last week, it was Heaven. DC-9s everywhere making smoke and thunder. Even a Gulfstream III, with the RR speys, made itself known.
Call me crazy but it just seems right, Bring back the F106s now there was some Fire and thunder!!!