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LH "biggest Airline Worldwide"  
User currently offlineZakHH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8401 times:

Nb: "biggest" - not "greatest" etc...  Wink

Seriously, LH claims #1 with over 34 Mio. passengers worldwide in 2004 (domestic flights not counted). I wonder who is #2, #3 etc. Has any1 got some figures at hand?

Cheers
Zak

63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8334 times:

While I don't have any figures, I'd be very sure that BA is #2, as they (for years if not decades) claimed to be the world's largest international airline. #3 I'd suppose AF/KLM. Oh yeah, and congrats to LH for taking that title from the Brits Big grin .

User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8309 times:

Does LH just claim it, or was this title actually awarded to them?

But congrats to LH!

Cheers,

Thilo



- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently offlineZakHH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 8277 times:

@767er: KLM/AF is whom I would expect to be close, too. But does BA really have that much passengers anymore? Anyway, as I understood, LH has "defended" this title, so they should have been #1 at least since last year.

@Thilo: I don't think that there such as an "official title". But these figures should be verified, so I guess one can trust them.

Btw, I read the news here (German news site n-tv.de), did not find any statement on LH's own page.

Edit: the article itself says they are #1 for 4 years now... should have read it properly...  blush 

[Edited 2005-07-22 17:17:14]

User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8217 times:

Counting only international passengers is misleading as it totally leaves out the American carriers' massive (and natural) domestic operations. Based in the middle of the EU with many tiny countries close by, it's quite easy to gain a lot of international traffic.

That's like comparing Southwest to SIA and awarding the former a title for being the "greater" domestic airline.  Yeah sure



Regards
Udo


User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8211 times:

Ok, found the numbers for 2003 here (sorry, that it's only a sample, not the official report, but it's the best i could do)

According to that, LH is the winner with 30 Mio. followed by BA with 27, AF with 25, KLM with 18 and then AA with 16.

Sorry, couldn't find anything more up to date.

Cheers,
Thilo



- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently offlineMrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8188 times:

The question is how to count:

- Number of cities served
- capacity offered
- number of a/c
- number of pax carried etc etc
- revenue
- profit
- etc

It is all matter of a good PR machine to interpret these numbers (LHs PR is definitely glorifying the product, realizing that quality standards with many other airlines are much better). And I wonder whether they have already included LX


User currently offlineWomBat151 From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8139 times:

So AF/KLM is #1

"According to that, LH is the winner with 30 Mio. followed by BA with 27, AF with 25, KLM with 18 and then AA with 16."

so AF/KLM has 25+18= 43



Ian @ EHAM (AMS), 3,1NM of SPY VOR radial 205
User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7411 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8095 times:

AF + KL is, by far, bigger than LH. Even bigger than LH + LX.

User currently offlineZakHH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8018 times:

Thanks for the list, Thilo. I didn't find it on the IATA page.
The ranking of #2-4 surprises me. My guess would have been exactly upside down.

But is out of question that AF+KL is by far the #1 - anyway, they are still counted seperately.


User currently offlineFlyinTLow From Germany, joined Oct 2004, 521 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7862 times:

Quoting ZakHH (Reply 9):
But is out of question that AF+KL is by far the #1 - anyway, they are still counted seperately.

This probably comes from the fact that those are still the numbers for the year 2003, yet AF and KLM announced their intensions to join forces in late September 2003. So I think it is rectified to count them seperatly for that year as they were operating as seperate airlines.
As of 2004, they definitly win the cup. Of course one could argue they still have a seperate fleet, seperate flight plans, yada yada yada...

Quoting Mrniji (Reply 6):
It is all matter of a good PR machine to interpret these numbers (LHs PR is definitely glorifying the product, realizing that quality standards with many other airlines are much better). And I wonder whether they have already included LX

"Never trust statistics you haven't forged yourself" - German saying, but probably international by now  Smile



- When dreams take flight, follow them -
User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8326 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 7708 times:

Quoting Udo (Reply 4):
Counting only international passengers is misleading as it totally leaves out the American carriers' massive (and natural) domestic operations. Based in the middle of the EU with many tiny countries close by, it's quite easy to gain a lot of international traffic.

So what. There are plenty of International carriers in the US. They just don't carry as many international passengers. It's a criteria like many others. They're not claiming that LH is the largest airline in the World, just that they carry more international passengers than anyone else. Seems reasonable.

Quote:
That's like comparing Southwest to SIA and awarding the former a title for being the "greater" domestic airline.

No it's not. SIA is not a domestic carrier. They don't fly any domestic routes at all  Smile It is however like comparing LH and AA. Both have domestic and international operations.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7539 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 7597 times:

Shouldnt be that hard when the country next to you is "international" and since most flights are to other countries in Europe....

well ya'll get the point.



"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineReguPilot From Puerto Rico, joined Jan 2004, 493 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 7090 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 11):
No it's not. SIA is not a domestic carrier. They don't fly any domestic routes at all

I don't think Singapore is big enough to have domestic flights.


User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3125 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6930 times:

Quoting ReguPilot (Reply 13):
I don't think Singapore is big enough to have domestic flights.

Except for flights that return to the airport, although i bet even those fly into airspace that does not belong to singapore

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6885 times:

By the way, a few weeks ago I saw an interview with the CEO of LH, Mr. Hubermeyer (or whatever that dude's name is), he said that 75% (!!!) of the LH passengers are from foreign countries and not from Germany.

Actually no wonder, German residents who have experienced the crappy LH service a few times won't ever book a flight on them again.  Silly

Patrick


User currently offlineNrcnyc From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5901 times:

According to the company I work For, Bloomberg News, AA is the largest airline in terms of passengers. If we are talking about Largest international service, shouldn't that be in the thread title. Clearly Largest, would be most passengers, well at least in the financial world it does.

User currently offlineIFixPlanes From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5725 times:

@ Sabena332
I think, with this type of comments you do not earn the title "Moderator".

Ingo



never tell an engineer he is wrong ;-)
User currently offlineLHSTR From Germany, joined Mar 2001, 226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5696 times:

Quoting IFixPlanes (Reply 17):
@ Sabena332
I think, with this type of comments you do not earn the title "Moderator".

Ingo

Can`t say it better.  Smile

Welcome on my respected user list, IFixPlanes


User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5693 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 11):
So what. There are plenty of International carriers in the US. They just don't carry as many international passengers. It's a criteria like many others. They're not claiming that LH is the largest airline in the World, just that they carry more international passengers than anyone else. Seems reasonable.

Which of course is rather meaningless because intra-EU aviation is still international yet is far less regulated than international flights to non EU countries, and is approaching true single aviation market status like the US domestic market.

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
Shouldnt be that hard when the country next to you is "international" and since most flights are to other countries in Europe....

Well of course the country next to you is international.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineLufthansa747 From Philippines, joined May 1999, 3201 posts, RR: 42
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5485 times:

Quoting IFixPlanes (Reply 17):
@ Sabena332
I think, with this type of comments you do not earn the title "Moderator".

He simply stated a few facts about LH. Their longhaul Y product is totally horrible, and I would never book it for myself unless I can upgrade to C which is ok. F is nice.



Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5439 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 11):
There are plenty of International carriers in the US. They just don't carry as many international passengers.

Because they operate in a completely different environment geographically. So the comparison is quite irrelevant.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 11):
They're not claiming that LH is the largest airline in the World, just that they carry more international passengers than anyone else.

Well, as said before, not really hard when sitting in the middle of the EU. What's the difference between a MUC-VIE service and a DTW-MSP service apart from the fact that one is "international" and the other "domestic"? Does it make the former more important or anything just because a "border" is crossed? I don't see the point of the whole discussion about who's the largest international carrier.

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 11):
No it's not. SIA is not a domestic carrier. They don't fly any domestic routes at all

You didn't get my point. I exaggerated in order to show how irrelevant it is to compare carriers just by "international" and "domestic" traffic. Irony - never heard?  Wink

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 11):
It is however like comparing LH and AA. Both have domestic and international operations.

And they operate in completely different environments...

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 12):
Shouldnt be that hard when the country next to you is "international" and since most flights are to other countries in Europe....

Exactly.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 15):
By the way, a few weeks ago I saw an interview with the CEO of LH, Mr. Hubermeyer (or whatever that dude's name is)

Hubermeyer...!!!! That made my day!  rotfl   bigthumbsup 

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 15):
Actually no wonder, German residents who have experienced the crappy LH service a few times won't ever book a flight on them again.

I couldn't agree more...  yes 

Quoting IFixPlanes (Reply 17):
I think, with this type of comments you do not earn the title "Moderator".

Why? Did he break any forum rules? No. Did he say his opinion and combine it with ironic remarks? Yes. Is that allowed! Yes!  biggrin 

Quoting LHSTR (Reply 18):
Can`t say it better. Smile

Welcome on my respected user list, IFixPlanes

Uh, the crowd is uniting against the dark forces of LH slashers...  flamed 


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5346 times:

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 15):
By the way, a few weeks ago I saw an interview with the CEO of LH, Mr. Hubermeyer (or whatever that dude's name is), he said that 75% (!!!) of the LH passengers are from foreign countries and not from Germany.

Actually no wonder, German residents who have experienced the crappy LH service a few times won't ever book a flight on them again.

Patrick

I second that. Absolutely rubbish product that is. Next time i'll fly 17 hours straight i'll take a competitor with a better product....



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

Quoting Jush (Reply 22):
I second that. Absolutely rubbish product that is. Next time i'll fly 17 hours straight i'll take a competitor with a better product....

Welcome to the club...membership card available. Just e-mail me...  Wink


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2688 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4324 times:

Is it true that LH has officially decided to start STL-FRA? I've been hearing rumors going on about it.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
25 9V-SPF : Still nothing more than one of many rumours regarding proposed future LH destinations.
26 Patroni : After many problems with LH in the early 1990s, I was a fairly frequent flyer with them until I moved to LUX. Found them OK, nothing special, but als
27 Brasuca : It's unfair and totally biased propaganda, based on stats which doesn't count flights as SFO-BOS; NYC-HNL; MIA-LAX, yet they make accounts of their HA
28 Alitalia744 : Its misleading tho - Delta carries more PAX every four months than lufthansa does all year...
29 Ahlfors : To make these comparisons more reasonable, perhaps we should not count those international passengers that only fly within the EU, seeing as that is a
30 Brasuca : Yet, Schengen is smaller than the US, Canada or Brazil, for example. I think that what really counts is Mrniji's summary:
31 Mrniji : Why? A mod is not supposed to have an opinion? A mod is not a human but a PC? Or: someone who criticizes zour beloved LH should not exist? Get real m
32 Post contains images Sabena332 : Start a tear-fest and help yourself guys: Seriously, am I not allowed - as a moderator - to post my opinion here about an airline? As many other memb
33 IFixPlanes : Of course you can. But it is a big difference between posting a opinion and continuously start to light up bashing against LH in all your postings re
34 ZakHH : @Patrick: I respect that, as a rather new member, it is certainly not my obligation to tell regulars and mods what to do and how to behave. Still, I h
35 Post contains images Dazeflight : There is a difference between stating an opinion and contaminating each and every LH-thread with those tiresome self-repeating remarks. I think every
36 StealthZ : I won't dispute LH pax figures or the fact they are a major INTERNATIONAL airline but I take serious issue with the "Worldwide" claim. There is a con
37 Post contains images Mrniji : This is a funny thread!  - I like Sabenna332, he is definitely one of the smartest people (AND smartest mods) here - and I think all of you are rathe
38 Post contains images ZakHH : Interesting crying technique you developed there... Anyway, I'd apply for the beer. Still, yes, I do think there is kind of "double standards" for mo
39 Post contains images Avianca : AF/KLM is one holding with two airlines or not? let us look how many passengers has Lufthansa with the doughter companys Condor,Eurowings,Germanwings
40 Post contains images Udo : Hey, how did you manage to read all of his countless posts about LH? Why don't you officially complain? Just try the search option and you find masse
41 Post contains images MauriceB : Talking about the ALA route only, LH's A332 is probably indeed a better option than KL's B763. But nothing beats KL's crews. Udo, wait untill the A330
42 Post contains images Udo : Winner: Holland 10:0. Regards Udo
43 ACDC8 : LH seems to have a pretty strong presence in North America, South America, Africa, Asia, Mid-East and of course Europe. Seems pretty close to worldwi
44 Avianca : regards
45 Udo : What's new here? The numbers are misleading, so what? Regards Udo
46 Avianca : read first thank you.
47 Post contains images Udo : You're welcome! Regards Udo
48 Post contains images Avianca :
49 Post contains images StealthZ : Aust/NZ and the Pacific may not count much for passenger numbers but it does constitute a significant percentage of the planet Chris
50 Mrniji : Africa?? Huh? what is Africa for you? Khartoum, Cairo, Casablanca, Johannesburg etc etc? What about NBO, DAR, Luanda, Lusaka, Yaounde... and the many
51 Sabena332 : Then should Craphansa start to treat me like a paying customer and not like self loading cargo, then I am willing to stop bashing them. Yes, I alread
52 Leskova : As StealthZ (Reply #49) and Mrniji (Reply #50) have already mentioned - LH's network may cover quite some stretches, but calling their South America
53 Columba : Regardless what some people here on a.net think but Lufthansa is still one of the most succesful airlines around. Seems to me that they do at least s
54 Cornish : As somebody who used to produce the IATA World Air Transport Statistics publication linked above, I should point out that LH was the biggest airline i
55 Udo : Have you flown AF or KL lately? ...and many European, Gulf carriers and others. No, cattle is not always cattle. LH usually treats eco pax like cattl
56 ACDC8 : One continent out of six constitutes a sginificant percentage of the planet? Uh, yes those are African cities, and the first four you mentioned are s
57 Post contains images Mrniji : hillarious! Have you ever flewn on any of them? I think you will see a big difference.. You have a point here, I agree.. but I personally do not supp
58 Post contains images Mrniji : Interesting point! I scritinized this a little when I was in Kenya recently. Even I thought b4 that Ethiopia belongs to Eastern Africa.. but accordin
59 ACDC8 : I had a chance to visit Tanzania a couple of years ago, but I didn't go (now I'm regretting it). As far as what is politicaly West/East Africa or geor
60 Columba : EWR is the airport I travel the most when I am flying to the States, LH always been less expensive or at least the same price then others including A
61 Post contains images Avianca : its normal that the home carrier is more expensive than a foreigen one. for example you will find longhaul flights from cdg via fra with lh more pric
62 LHSTR : Could you get a little more detailed about this. I have absolutely no clue what you are taking about and how LH is behaving differently than most oth
63 Post contains images Udo : The B777's width offers more room than a B767's for an additional seat - and we should notice the aisles on EK are just narrower. People tend to bash
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