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Delta Testing New BusinessElite Cabin Interior  
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6964 times:

From the Delta News Network, Delta will begin testing a new international BusinessElite cabin for the 763ER on ATL-MUC routes.



Some customers flying BusinessElite this summer between Atlanta and Munich, Germany, will experience the new 767-300ER cabin interiors, including samples of new seat covers. For the next several weeks, Delta will be testing all-leather seat covers that may be installed next year in Delta's BusinessElite cabins.

Delta's current BusinessElite seats are covered in a combination of leather and fabric. Other cabin interior changes include improved lighting, lavatory enhancements, and new carpets and paneling. These changes are the first in a series of improvements Delta is considering to enhance the travel experience for its international BusinessElite customers.

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6894 times:

Allow me to be the first to say:
About Friggin TIME!!!




That said, DL was one of the pioneers of the First/Business hybrid-- yet now, the C/J offerings of many 3 and 4 class airlines have by and large left DL's product completely in a the dust. Very sad, though understandable, to see

************

As for what's written here, do you have any other non-internal source? J/w.

Can't seem to tell whether they're going to actually be introducing a new seat type, since only the 'cover' seems to be addressed.

[Edited 2005-07-23 21:50:40]

User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2629 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6889 times:

This is a good step. The biggest issue with BizE, in my opinion, is the way the 767-300ER is configured. I really wish DL went the way CO did with the premium cabin. CO is slightly different as they have BusinessFirst on the 767-200ER and 767-400ER, but the main thing they did is put 5 seats across on the premium cabin. DL put 6 across in the premium cabin, and BizElite seats have only .5 inch more width than coach seats at 18.5 inches. Granted, there is the little table/drink holding space between you and the next seat, and the pitch is superior. But the seat is just too narrow for a premium product IMHO.

I just flew BizE on a DL 777 ATL-CDG and CDG-CVG, and it has a 21 inch seat width, and that made all the difference in the world.

Don't get me wrong the new materials for the BizE cabin is great, but this is my biggest gripe with BizE.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6839 times:

Quoting B4real (Reply 2):
but this is my biggest gripe with BizE.

and no offense, but I could hardly imagine them being concerned with this....

...particularly considering that they've just recently lowered the premium capacity on the 763ER fleet as is.


User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 970 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6740 times:

Quoting B4real (Reply 2):
I really wish DL went the way CO did with the premium cabin.

Doesn't CO have 7 across in their 777s? DL only has 6 across. Give and take...besides, only the horizontally challenged would find the current BizElite seat in the 767 to be too narrow.

The upgrade of BizElite is a new, all-leather seat cover on the same frame, similar in concept to the upgrade of the domestic fleet.


User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7531 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6730 times:

now if NW would just get some new interiors and seats.......


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6644 times:

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 4):

Doesn't CO have 7 across in their 777s? DL only has 6 across. Give and take...besides, only the horizontally challenged would find the current BizElite seat in the 767 to be too narrow.


CO has 2-2-2 (6 accross) Business Class seating on the 777s.

CO has 2-1-2 (5 accross) Business Class seating on the 767s.

And while you may not agree, 6 accross biz class seating on a 767 does result in a rather narrow business class seat, especially when compared to business class offerings of other airlines are larger/wider aircraft. Biz Elite is DL's premium offering (it was intended to be positioned in the market as something better than biz class but lest costly and less extravagent than first, just like CO's BF product) and 6 accross seating on a 767 is big limitation in that respect.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6599 times:

Hey, us non-revs could care less what the seat's made of...I just like the legroom Big grin

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4742 posts, RR: 45
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6578 times:

Rather than bitch about everything wrong with BizE...

I'd like to congratulate Delta for taking steps to improve it's customer's experiences especially given their current financial conditions.

Long live the Widget!



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineMats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 625 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6563 times:

I'm surprised. They've pretty much removed everything from domestic first class--it's pathetic. I'm glad that they're not cutting too much from BusinessElite. I still think it's a good product, even though they took away my favorite "mini" BizElite cabin just behind Door 2. I have such fond memories of flying there.

Above all, I'd rather fly wtih fewer amenities on Delta than in greater luxury on Continental. I still believe that Delta's crews are the very best in the United States--gracious, warm, and approachable with relatively few exceptions. Continental has has a great BusinessFirst product, but their cabin crews don't hold a candle to Delta.


User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6573 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 1):
As for what's written here, do you have any other non-internal source? J/w.

Nah, I don't think it really qualified for a press release.

Quoting B4real (Reply 2):
DL put 6 across in the premium cabin, and BizElite seats have only .5 inch more width than coach seats at 18.5 inches.

I agree. I'm no fat-ass, by any means(sorta), but I find the J/C seats on the 763 to be too narrow for comfort. There is no room to "adjust" when you tail gets tired or sore. If I had the choice for a current BizE seat or an old style L-1011 FC seat, give me the L-10's any day. Those seats were enormously huge and comfortable, even if they don't have the pitch of the BizE seats. I can rarely sleep on an airplane anyway, so it does me no good. The longest flight I have flown on the 777 was a 45 minute JAX-ATL equip sub once, so I didn't get to really "experience" the J/C seat then.

Quoting B4real (Reply 2):
CO is slightly different as they have BusinessFirst on the 767-200ER and 767-400ER,

They also use the 762's and 764's on international routes, whereas Delta's are strictly domestic, except the ATL-LIM flight. Being that the 762's are being retired wouldn't do us much good, and the 764 is to replace the L-10's on the high density, leisure markets(i.e.-Hawaii, Orlando), and the J/C product wouldn't make sense, even though ATL-HNL is longer than ATL-CDG! Go figure!  Yeah sure


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4742 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6524 times:

Quoting Mats (Reply 9):
Above all, I'd rather fly wtih fewer amenities on Delta than in greater luxury on Continental. I still believe that Delta's crews are the very best in the United States--gracious, warm, and approachable with relatively few exceptions. Continental has has a great BusinessFirst product, but their cabin crews don't hold a candle to Delta.

So true. I have yet to come across someone unpleasant, unfriendly, or unhelpful at Delta. Truly a world-class carrier. It continues to amaze me.

I know Delta doesn't have the newest planes, the nicest interiors or the best food (frankly I hate the snack pack), but they continue to be my favorite airline. Why? Because of the dedicated employees who even in the face of challenge, continue to put a smile on their face and give you the best freaking service they can, even if that means only giving you the entire can of soda.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6517 times:

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 4):
only the horizontally challenged would find the current BizElite seat in the 767 to be too narrow.

Excuse me LawnDart....BUT THAT IS A TOTAL B.S. STATEMENT. I have to ask, how many long-haul trips have you taken in them?

I regularly travel across the pond and to Brazil on BizE and am not at all horizontally challenged. No extension belt needed here! While BizE was great when it first introduced, it has fallen behind the market. The width of 18.5 inches makes a significant difference and after about 5 hours in that seat it does get uncomfortable. While putting a leather cover on the same frame will reduce maintenance costs and give a slight update to the appearance, it will not solve the problem that many find with the seat. CO did take the right approach with the 767.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineGokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6420 times:

I fly DL business elite very frequently, and although I can't say enough about the service of the FA's, I think improvements on the equipment will be a welcomed change. As a matter of fact just 2 days ago I flew JFK-TXL BizElite and as always service was great, but IFE especially needs improvement such as bigger screens and in demand movies. As far as the seat goes I find the width satisfying however there are many airlines with better width. In my 20+ Bizelite travels I never had the opportunity of flying the 777 but I think its pretty much the same. I believe DL Bizelite product needs an overhaul that can attract more dollars to DL already succesful international network. Also additional routes from JFK(LHR-NRT-HKG) should be added after the overhaul I just can't figure out why they don't have it now. IMO


Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6415 times:

Quoting Gokmengs (Reply 13):
I fly DL business elite very frequently, and although I can't say enough about the service of the FA's, I think improvements on the equipment will be a welcomed change. As a matter of fact just 2 days ago I flew JFK-TXL BizElite and as always service was great, but IFE especially needs improvement such as bigger screens and in demand movies. As far as the seat goes I find the width satisfying however there are many airlines with better width. In my 20+ Bizelite travels I never had the opportunity of flying the 777 but I think its pretty much the same. I believe DL Bizelite product needs an overhaul that can attract more dollars to DL already succesful international network. Also additional routes from JFK(LHR-NRT-HKG) should be added after the overhaul I just can't figure out why they don't have it now. IMO

I dont think an upgrade to the IFE options is being considered as part of the Biz Elite upgrade - we are talking new seat covers, imporvements to cabin decoration and possibly an update to service items. Advanced IFE systems that incorporate AVOD cost a fortune, and I dont think DL can spend the money at this time.

As for additional routes, DL cannot fly to LHR due to Bermuda 2, DL tried JFK-NRT and failed and there is a lot of competition on that route right now with AA being the latest to enter the market, JFK-HKG is flown by CX and (from EWR) CO which is probably more than adequate to cover demand and, in any case, DL does not have aircraft available to fly that long route (they have a small fleet of 777s).....DL once tried service to Asia with service to cities such as Nagoya, Hong Kong, Tapei, Bangkok, etc from gateways in PDX and LAX.......and did not do very well. The ATL-NRT route is the only connection to Asia that DL still flies.

[Edited 2005-07-24 01:43:56]

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6342 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 11):
So true. I have yet to come across someone unpleasant, unfriendly, or unhelpful at Delta. Truly a world-class carrier. It continues to amaze me.

They seem to have a good attitude, but I don't think it translates into positive service all the time, at least in my experience. It comes across more as a carefree attitude, where when something goes wrong, they smile and shrug but don't really care.

And some of DLs interiors just are disgracefully dirty and worn out, and when you compare them to the vast majority of the CO fleet with new interiors, combined with the better seats throughout first and Businessfirst compared to DL, it's no contest. Since DL/CO/NW are the most comparable in terms of product classes, it's hard to claim that DL with such crappy equipment is superior when CO also offers good service, food, and no 18.5" first or BF seats. DLs BE service is often more comparable to 3-class airlines business class, while COs BF cabins match or surpass what International First class used to be like before the introduction of suite products.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6316 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 1):
That said, DL was one of the pioneers of the First/Business hybrid-- yet now, the C/J offerings of many 3 and 4 class airlines have by and large left DL's product completely in a the dust. Very sad, though understandable, to see

Wait a friggin' minute...

In an era of lie-flat J beds and flat-but-not-level seats, the *best* Delta can do is a new da*ned seat cover? Hell, even Northwest scrounged up some change for a Business Class revamp - Delta appears to be penny wise and pound foolish on this one...



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineDeltaMIA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1672 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6258 times:

Quoting Avek00 (Reply 16):
In an era of lie-flat J beds and flat-but-not-level seats, the *best* Delta can do is a new da*ned seat cover?

It's a test. DL is testing to see when they introduce the new BizElite seat whether to make it leather, cloth (like CO), or a leather/cloth combo like it is now. Those of you that fly the ATL-MUC flights can let DL know whether you like all leather or not that is all. This won't be introduced systemwide.



It's a big building with patients, but that's not important right now.
User currently offlineJrlander From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6216 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 14):
dont think an upgrade to the IFE options is being considered as part of the Biz Elite upgrade - we are talking new seat covers, imporvements to cabin decoration and possibly an update to service items. Advanced IFE systems that incorporate AVOD cost a fortune, and I dont think DL can spend the money at this time.


I have heard that they are planning an IFE upgrade. Someone here in Atlanta said they were looking at bigger screens, though I'm not sure how they can do that with the existing seats. I wonder, though I have not heard this, if someone can replace the bones of the system using the current inseat equipment, they might be able to provide a great improvement. This may not be AVOD, but they could replace the current tape players with a digital system offering more channels that would require less space and weigh less.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6138 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 14):
The ATL-NRT route is the only connection to Asia that DL still flies.

...I can think of three other DL-metal Asian flights that might beg to differ  Wink


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3077 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6132 times:

The thing people are missing here is that these are going to be the same seats, just different covers. They might be adding new carpet and refurbishing the interiors, but the seats will be 90% the same.

I hope they decide to wait until they can do it right rather than do a half-a** job now. Totally revamp BizE with 2-1-2 seating, near lie-flat seats, AVOD IFE with bigger screens, and improved seats with new features.


User currently offlineTbear815 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 704 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6105 times:

Good evening all,

I said I wouldn't go there, but I must. I don't care what airline we speak of; I've flown both carriers and, as with ALL carriers, they are all reactive and not proactive. Rather than be a trend follower, they should be a trend setter. So maybe your seat isn't "your home away from home with all the conveniences." You're are traveling with an airline with such service and ambiance that you can take a mental "breather" from everyday.

For the truly long-hauls, yes have a First Class cabin with all the best your company can offer. I'd really like to see the upgrade figures and full rev vs. "some rev." But don't do what the Jones' do - create something new, comfortable, yet refined. Crew are usually only as good as the pax with whom they're flying - there has to be a rapport. If you're serving "grub," you're probably not as proud as you would normally be. That's why such service in international F is as good as it is. The Senior people work up there because it is what flying used to be. Relaxed and Civilized. Not cattle-car.

I'm not a Union man (I was, but I was blackballed...long story), but you can't ask F/A's to provide and smile when there is nothing to provide. That's why cabin layout isn't as important as product. Why can't these airlines do what they do best and stick with it? Concentrate on your key market and make it work the best way possible.

'Nuff said - Thank you AA for inventing mileage programs. In Britain, they would call them schemes. All the programs have become "schemes." What a costly mistake!

Tbear


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4742 posts, RR: 45
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6096 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 20):
The thing people are missing here is that these are going to be the same seats, just different covers. They might be adding new carpet and refurbishing the interiors, but the seats will be 90% the same.

and the thing other people miss is that this is only a test to see whether the NEW seats should feature leather or not.

DL has plans to completely refurbish BizE with new seats when they can afford to. It will be nice.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6023 times:

Quoting Tbear815 (Reply 21):
as with ALL carriers, they are all reactive and not proactive. Rather than be a trend follower, they should be a trend setter.

...not only is the aforementioned quote rather nonsensical, it's also impossible:
someone has to initiate a trend bub.


User currently offlineLawnDart From United States of America, joined May 2005, 970 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5974 times:

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 12):
Excuse me LawnDart....BUT THAT IS A TOTAL B.S. STATEMENT. I have to ask, how many long-haul trips have you taken in them?

Good Lord, calm down... scared 

I have flown BusinessElite about...hmm...14 times in the past 4 years, twice in the 777 from CDG, the rest in the 76ER to CDG, LGW, NCE and ZRH. At 5'11" and 185 lbs., I find the 767 version of the BizElite seat perfectly comfortable.

I have also flown CO's BusinessFirst (all 767s), and I guess I didn't truly appreciate the expansive accommodations (hardly noticed), although to be honest with you, I'm not real fond of the barbershop chair in the middle.

To your point, I did hear one customer complain about the width of the DL BizElite seat on the 767, but he was very large (both tall and wide).

Having answered your question, let me ask you one, Skibum9: if Delta configured their 767 with 5 across in BusinessElite, that would be a reduction in capacity of about -17%. Assuming a like reduction in potential revenue through capacity loss alone, Delta would need to increase BusinessElite fares about the same amount, or 17%, to maintain revenue generation by that product.

Let's make another assumption...on August 16 (a Tues), the one-way BizElite fare from JFK to CDG (one of the shortest trans-Atlantic routes) is $3,414. A 17% increase in fare would be an additional $580. That works out to about $200 for each inch of increased seat width. Is that worth it to you?

By the way, the BusinessFirst fare on CO from EWR to CDG on the same date is $3,944...$530 more expensive than Delta.


25 Tbear815 : My dear Concorde boy, Initiating a trend should be up to the great MBA's and bean counters who have trashed the airlines into mockeries of what they w
26 Post contains links Baw716 : I agree that the BizElite seating is only a tad wider than the coach seat. With that said, I have flown Delta between SFO-JFK on one day turnarounds a
27 SFOerik : DL biz elita on the 777 and MD-11 were far more comfy than the 767. They should have opted for a 2-1-2 config. for the 767. It is just too narrow. I f
28 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : ...I did, it was even more worthless the 2nd time around DL had the opportunity to do this when they recently lowered the 763ERs' premium capacity...
29 Panamair : DL hasn't had the 777 on JFK-CDG since early 2003. I fly DL BizElite across the pond once every two-three weeks on the 763ERs and think the seat is o
30 Jamake1 : I would say that BA and Virgin Atlantic have done a remarkable job of innovating and trend-setting when it comes to a premium class product. BA was th
31 BestWestern : I made Delta Platinum Medallion simply from flying Trans-atlantic with them. DL should leave the seating alone, and focus on quality of service. DL Bi
32 Skibum9 : LawnDart, you are not thinking in two dimensions here...BizE and coach. Hypothetically, if DL reconfigures to a 2-1-2 set-up in BizE, they do not nec
33 1MillionFlyer : what are they?
34 NYCAAer : CDG-BOM FRA-BOM (seasonal) CDG-Chennai
35 LawnDart : They just removed the BizElite seats from that mini cabin, probably for a reason (they didn't sell the entire allotment more times than not; keep in
36 OttoPylit : They are not waitresses, they are friggin flight attendants. Its not their job to know the difference in wines, nor the difference between pasta and
37 B4real : These number do not matter, it works for CO (who just posted a profit), and BusinessFirst is a better product from equipment standpoint. Exactly the
38 Skibum9 : From what I have been told, DL removed the BizE seats becuase yes they were not selling and because of the number of upgrades they were granting. Sin
39 Ikramerica : Sorry but the typical international business class customer sure as heckfire knows what risotto is. Just because you don't, doesn't mean the F/A shoul
40 FlyPNS1 : I really hope DL does a complete overhaul of BizE and not just a minor touch-up. If all they're going to do is cosmetic work, it's probably not worth
41 Dutchjet : I absolutely agree with you - F/As are not waiters or wine stewards, and an F/As primarily responsibility is safety, no discussion........ BUT, I sug
42 Tommy767 : A bit off topic, yet still relating to DL: It's a good idea for them to improve upon their BIZClass product. However, when I flew with them in April f
43 Gigneil : You of all people should know that NW has pioneered an all new WBC and Economy class on the A330, that the 744 is being/has been refitted with the ne
44 DALMD88 : I agree that the FA should know the entire product. It doesn't take much to know the different wines that we are currently poring. My mom used to fly
45 Alitalia744 : FYI Delta isn't the only airline cutting down on F/J seating, AF's reconfigs have less premium seating as do AZ's...which you'll see in the coming mon
46 Burnsie28 : I was talking more of new seats, IFE etc on things like the A319/320, 757, and maybe even radio on the DC-9 (which they have thought of doing), I hea
47 Zone1 : When will Delta go with an entirely new BizElite seat? With AA introducing the lie-flat business seat in 2006, DL will definately need some type of u
48 Jamake1 : Spoken like a true working-class blue collar employee who lacks the insight to understand what it takes to deliver service excellence to the high yie
49 Panamair : Puh-leeze, don't exaggerate! BA, AF, and LH have never bothered to address me by name, AA has tried twice in the last six years (and then only once o
50 RwSEA : Are there any pix of the DL test cabin? For that matter, are there any pics of the refurbished 757 cabin either? .. .. ..
51 Gokmengs : If thats the case they shouldn't even bother. A waste of time and money IMO because the product is ok now in my opinion, and when they have the resou
52 Post contains images OttoPylit : Actually, now that you mention it, the Delta folks collar's ARE blue. But my "blue collared, working class self," as you put it, does a hell of a lot
53 Jamake1 : Okay Otto Pylit: I apologize. I was a little harsh on you. Your posting rubbed me the wrong way because the U.S. legacy carriers like to charge a prem
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