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AA RDU-LGW Changes  
User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 6732 times:

Well, AA has changed RDU-LGW from a 777 to a 763 from 30OCT05 to 14DEC05. After that, it goes back to the 777. So at least we see where the 777 comes for for a little while for the DEL flight.


Aiming High and going far..
110 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSammyhostie From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6575 times:

They do that every year I think, so its not big news.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6572 times:

Quoting Sammyhostie (Reply 1):
They do that every year I think, so its not big news.

No, they don't. A 763 has not operated this route since April 2002.



a.
User currently offlineBAViscount From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2338 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6462 times:

Quoting Sammyhostie (Reply 1):
They do that every year I think, so its not big news.

MAH4546 is correct, when I flew that route in November 2003 it was definitely a 777. Although while I'm not familiar with actual dates, I know that when other family members have flown that route in the past it was on a 767.



Ladies & gentlemen this is Captain Tobias Wilcock welcoming you aboard Coconut Airways flight 372 to Bridgetown Barb
User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6439 times:

how does that RDU route do ?? is it a touristy flight ?? what are the J-loads like ?? anyone know ?? like my Obscure African Routes thread, I like the obscure routes.. and Ive always thought the RDU route was the most obscure US route to england...

User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26483 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6430 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 4):
how does that RDU route do ?? is it a touristy flight ?? what are the J-loads like ?? anyone know ?? like my Obscure African Routes thread, I like the obscure routes.. and Ive always thought the RDU route was the most obscure US route to england...

RDU-LGW is subsidized by local pharma-giants in the Raleigh/Durham area to the point that the flight is guaranteed to breakeven every time it goes wheels up. It doesn't matter what aircraft AA uses, they just adjust the costs accordingly.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6422 times:

re

Quoting N1120A (Reply 5):
RDU-LGW is subsidized by local pharma-giants in the Raleigh/Durham area to the point that the flight is guaranteed to breakeven every time it goes wheels up. It doesn't matter what aircraft AA uses, they just adjust the costs accordingly.

really ?? wow I didnt know that (obviously) .... so I guess AA must go out with a bunch load in Business class... is there any specific reason why LGW is used or is it just a slot issue ?


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26483 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6413 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 6):
is there any specific reason why LGW is used or is it just a slot issue ?

RDU is most definately not an LHR gateway, and certainly does not meet the PAX numbers to become one. Beyond that, it is doubtful that AA would use an LHR slot on a flight that does not need the cachet.

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 6):
so I guess AA must go out with a bunch load in Business class...

With these guys, it is probably more of an F-class thing. Also, it is not a matter of if the seat is filled, it is a matter of the costs of the flight being subsidized before a seat is sold



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6404 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
With these guys, it is probably more of an F-class thing. Also, it is not a matter of if the seat is filled, it is a matter of the costs of the flight being subsidized before a seat is sold

hmm that makes sense as a plane could go out full in F and empty in Y and probably still make profit...


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26483 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6397 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 8):
hmm that makes sense as a plane could go out full in F and empty in Y and probably still make profit...

They can sell one single seat on the whole aircraft, Y/J/F or otherwise, or even a single parcel of cargo and still make a profit.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently onlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6396 times:

So does anyone really know where the DEL 777's are coming from? Are the AA elves building a few in the back 40 at DFW out of discarded F100 and 727 scrap? Because unless they are taking delivery of more than the two (to be used for PVG) they will not have enough to operate the same peak schedule in 2006.

Or am I wrong?


User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6771 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6388 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 8):
hmm that makes sense as a plane could go out full in F and empty in Y and probably still make profit...

The plane usually goes out b/w 60-90% full, depending on the time of year. So althought the flight is already paid for, the added passengers and added cargo from the Triangle area to the England area makes the flight mroe profitable...



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26483 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 11):
The plane usually goes out b/w 60-90% full, depending on the time of year.

One of the main reasons for heavier loads is the fact that AA likes to route lower yield passengers through RDU



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6387 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 11):

The plane usually goes out b/w 60-90% full, depending on the time of year. So althought the flight is already paid for, the added passengers and added cargo from the Triangle area to the England area makes the flight mroe profitable...

ok, I see... so really its one of AA's most profitable flights to run... just straying from the point briefly, do AA still run the STL-LGW route they aquired from TWA ??

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 10):
So does anyone really know where the DEL 777's are coming from? Are the AA elves building a few in the back 40 at DFW out of discarded F100 and 727 scrap?

just a thought if The AA elves are busy making a couple of 777's out back at DFW, I wish they'd hurry up and build an extra 767 to put back on the BHX-ORD route !!!!!!!! argh...I hate that drive to LHR !!


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26483 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6367 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 13):
do AA still run the STL-LGW route they aquired from TWA ??

No

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 13):
build an extra 767 to put back on the BHX-ORD route !!!!!!!!

Sorry to disappoint, but that was not due to lack of aircraft, rather the 763ER being too much aircraft

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 13):
so really its one of AA's most profitable flights to run...

Well, it certainly does not lose money



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6349 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
orry to disappoint, but that was not due to lack of aircraft, rather the 763ER being too much aircraft

hmm... well build us an ETOPS 757 Then !!! hahaha... just give us something !!!... (this is the sound of a desperate frequent flyer to the midwest...haha)


User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6570 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6281 times:

I don't know if the schedules for December have been finalized yet. There's a remote chance that the flight could stay 763 past 12/14. Just keep an eye on those schedules around mid October or so.

User currently offlineBilly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6191 times:

From what I have seen, RDU has some of the highest yield figures (almost treble the MAN-MIA, for example) but performs very badly on a P&L basis. The route is definately one of the weakest for AA into the UK. It was one of the strongest a few years ago but even the pharma pax are getting price-conscious.

User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6173 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
Sorry to disappoint, but that was not due to lack of aircraft, rather the 763ER being too much aircraft

Both in terms of capacity and size-when the temperature went up at BHX cargo had to be left behind due to the short length of the runway.


User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6168 times:

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 18):
Both in terms of capacity and size-when the temperature went up at BHX cargo had to be left behind due to the short length of the runway.

really ?!?! man they gotta do something about that runway !! no wonder airlines choose MAN instead of BHX !!


User currently offlineNikonDFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6139 times:

Don't forget AA still does some military work with the 777's as well.

User currently offlineCidflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2301 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6135 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 4):
how does that RDU route do ?? is it a touristy flight ?? what are the J-loads like ?? anyone know ?? like my Obscure African Routes thread, I like the obscure routes.. and Ive always thought the RDU route was the most obscure US route to england

Also to note, this route came about when AA operated a substantial hub from RDU (I think it was around 250 flights/day) from the late 80's to mid 90's. They also operated RDU-Paris Orly non stop as well. The LGW route stayed after the hub was closed because of the aforemetnioned subsidies.


User currently offlineBHXDTW From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6132 times:

what military work do they do ??
Id have a shock if I saw an AA 777 pull up at Baghdad !!!  eyepopping 


User currently offlineJetBlue From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 393 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6104 times:

Upon checking the schedules, I noticed the flight will not operate at all on November 24 RDU-LGW and back November 25 LGW-RDU. Why is that? Could it be they already have a charter scheduled that day?

jetBlue



We know for you it's not just a seat on a flight to a place. It's a seat on a flight to your life.
User currently offlineAa777flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6065 times:

Quoting BHXDTW (Reply 22):
what military work do they do ??
Id have a shock if I saw an AA 777 pull up at Baghdad !!!

AA has been flying troops back and forth to the war in Iraq for since before it started. AA does not fly into Baghdad, they go into a neighboring country and drop the troops off there. AA will resume this service in the fall.


25 TymnBalewne : Is this a (USA) Thanksgiving Day cancellation? C.
26 Aa777flyer : Thats exactly what it is...save some turkey for me!
27 NYCAAer : Our internal employee website states that AA is looking for another route where a 763 could be substituted for a 772 to start up the ORD-DEL service.
28 ERJ170 : Although this appears to be a short-term change, does a 763 have the same crew requirements as the 777? I wouldn't think so.. so what about the RDU ba
29 Post contains images FlyingTexan : Airlines tweak their schedule on holidays.
30 Aa777jr : Why is the RDU-LGW metal being changed only temporarily? I understand that GlaxoSmithKline is taking seats on the route, but if its not that full, use
31 Avianca : transportation of the troops.
32 ERJ170 : cargo capacity, high yield revenue, more profits, backup for other flights..
33 Avianca : do you know by the way the cargoloads on the route?
34 Aa777jr : ERJ170. I thought the whole idea AA had in doing this was to free another T7 for the ORD-DEL service? Thanks.
35 ERJ170 : I don't know.. but I think that it is usually a fully loaded cargo hold.. even if the passenger hold is only half full. True, but pulling the RDU fli
36 Avianca : hmm. it would itrest me alot. as i know aa has no regular truck service outside of gb to conect on the flight, and personal i can not imagine that th
37 ERJ170 : As I said, I THINK it is usually full. A lot of cargo goes out of RTP overseas and the AA flight is the main corridor. Mark (MAH4546) would probably
38 BHXDTW : so did this STL route suddenly become unprofitable or was it just unwanted ?
39 Post contains images Aa777jr : I flew the STL-LGW flight before 9.11.01 and it was packed. I couldn't see them getting rid of the flight because of low yields, but I've been wrong b
40 BHXDTW : It was a shame that AA dropped that route after the TW takeover.. what happened to TWA's other international routes from STL to europe.. I guess they
41 ERJ170 : what was that route flown with?
42 BHXDTW : 762.. I think and then AA kept it with a 762 until the pulled it..
43 MSYtristar : B767-300ER
44 Post contains images Aa777jr : I could have sworn I was on the 763 when I flew it. Missed my ORD-LHR flight on the 772, so I was routed STL-LGW to get to London on time. Major bumme
45 BHXDTW : ok sorry I was wrong it was a 763... dude.. routed off ORD-LHR onto STL-LGW... I would be more gutted that I was flying into LGW !!! eeek...
46 MAH4546 : Very true, especially from Miami. For now, the plane is coming from MIA-EZE. Both daily MIA-EZE flights are 777s, and effective 30Oct05, the early MI
47 SW733 : This is more of a question than a comment to free up a 777, because obviously AA knows what they're doing a lot more than me! But, how busy are the m
48 FlyPIJets : Is the routing for the 763 still DFW-LGW-RDU-LGW-DFW ? (Ok, I know I am just being hardheaded in not being able to figure this out but..) How many a/c
49 Gilesdavies : I know were going slightly off the point here and Im no expert over the 763 performance and the runway length at BHX. But I am looking at this from a
50 Aa777jr : I would be more gutted that I was flying into LGW !!! eeek... It wasn't that bad, I flew the DFW-LGW a handful of times. I enjoy LGW. Is the routing f
51 BHMNONREV : Yes, on both counts... Yields in the Y cabin were fair, but horrible in J. Cargo yields had slowly eroded since the merger. TW had several lucrative
52 Post contains images FlyPIJets : OK, well then is the 763 going to have the same routing as the 772 DFW-LGW-RDU-LGW-DFW.
53 Aa777jr : FlyPIJets. The flights from DFW-LGW are 772 (2x daily), only in high peaks does AA operate an additional flight, 763 (DFW-LGW), so I would doubt they
54 FlyPIJets : I think one of the two DFW-LGW goes 763 for the period mentioned. What I am actually trying to get a grip on is the viability of the RDU-LGW flight. (
55 MAH4546 : One of the DFW-LGW flight will downgrade to a 763 on 30Oct05. This is a permanent, not seasonal, change, because they need the 777s for Osaka.
56 BHXDTW : MAH4546: what are the loads like on the DFW-LGW run ?? and is there any difference between the J/F seats on a 763 as opposed to a 777
57 MAH4546 : The loads are fine, I'm sure. The downgrading has nothing to do with loads, just aircraft allocation. They don't have the aircraft to let both be 777
58 ERJ170 : No
59 FlyPIJets : So if AA quit DFW-LGW you think RDU-LGW would stay? After all RDU and DFW are the only two cities served by AA to/from LGW. I'm not saying that I thi
60 ERJ170 : Why not? Because all the other gateways are served by 2 other US carriers, probably. AA could drop the RDU-LGW segment at any point. No one is stoppi
61 FlyPIJets : Any US carrier can fly to LGW at any time from any US city. B2 is for LHR. DFW isn't allowed to LHR, thus the LGW flights. So I am confused about wha
62 MAH4546 : There are already three unused US-London gateways, Pittsburgh, San Diego, and St. Louis. Nobody is rushing to fill those or replace them with another
63 ERJ170 : If AA dropped the RDU-LGW route, they would be dropping the subsidy also. I believe that DL would jump in and take over the route and subsidies in pla
64 MAH4546 : If AA were to drop RDU-LGW, it is because the subisides were being dropped, so Delta would have nothing to pickup. AA won't be ending RDU-LGW as long
65 ERJ170 : Okay.. okay.. let me try to say this again.. we were talking hypothetically.. if AA drops RDU-LGW.. they would have the 777 or763, whichever, for bett
66 FlyPIJets : Can some please get me proof of a subsidy.
67 MAH4546 : I get what you are saying. Though there is no "gateway" here. Delta can fly RDU-LGW whenever they want. They can start it tomorrow if they wish. Rale
68 ERJ170 : Not without the subsidy.. the missing piece of the puzzle.
69 FlyPIJets : Hello...What subsidy, please? Proof, is it there?
70 ERJ170 : It's just the way it is.. I don't know where you can find proof of the subsidy.. but there is one.. There may actually be 2 more subsidies coming out
71 IADLHR : Before AA started RDU-LGW, they operated a RDU-CDG or maybe it was Orly, cant remember. Did that flight also have a subsidy?
72 ERJ170 : RDU-ORY.. it was not subsidized.
73 Avianca : what airline should operate the fra run?
74 ERJ170 : beats me.. I know that some new organization in RTP is looking at getting some business together who frequent to Germany to go in on it.. It should be
75 FlyPIJets : Sure you can, RNO has subsidized flights in the past and there was very public disclosure of spending public funds. Now, if you are talking about a c
76 Cltguy : And who would subsidize those flights for LAX and FRA? NCDOT?
77 MAH4546 : Those are a public subisidy. The subsidies for AA's RDU-LGW are private.
78 Avianca : I do not see the market, for a german flight, RDU is not very well known in germany. what to you mean with LA (LAX) ?
79 ERJ170 : RTP is known well enough in Germany, however. In LA, I mean the LA area airports.. LAX, LGB, ONT, BUR.. whichever.. they all allow you get to LA. Muc
80 Avianca : not as you think, ask 1000 germans and you will see how many knows RTP. Most didn´t know where NC is ... It would be nice to get a FRA-RDU flight bu
81 ERJ170 : Well, I don't think RTP is as well known as NYC or MIA or LAX.. but RDU/RTP is more of a business destination. So ask 1000 businessmen if they have h
82 FlyPIJets : Isn't that just selling seats? Or do you think there is a private business organization raising money to subsidize an American Airline flight? It cou
83 ERJ170 : No. Why must everything be goverment funded with you? These are private companies who conglomeate these subsidies. It has nothing to do with the stat
84 FlyPIJets : I really want to believe that this exist. I really do, I've heard it so many times, yet never have I seen any proof other than AA has a constant load
85 MAH4546 : You are not going to. It is private. Airlines don't disclose private subsidy arrangements. The proof that it exists is that AA still operates RDU-LGW
86 FlyPIJets : The only proof I see is that AA makes money on the route, no proof of a subsidy. And I expect that they have continued to operate RDU-LGW becasue it
87 MAH4546 : There is no solid proof that AA makes money on this route either. Airlines do not release information on individual route performances with rare exce
88 FlyPIJets : Glaxo has purchased a bunch of seats? Or do you think Glaxo shells out, say, $10,000 grand a day just for the privilege to buy a bunch of seats? One
89 Rdu777 : FlyPIJets, Even though I believe the RDU-LGW route is subsidized, I still can give you proof. I've always heard and thought of the route as subsidized
90 Aa777jr : All this talk of AA dropping the RDU-LGW route...I thought they were pretty much in bed with GlaxoSmithKline on this and would definitely keep the rou
91 MAH4546 : Glaxo subsidizes any losses the flight may incur. They buy seats and cargo capacity, even if they don't use it.
92 Post contains images FlyPIJets : Ok, I get that. But I did said make money, not turn a profit.
93 MAH4546 : How do you make money if you don't turn a profit? If you aren't profiting, you are losing money.
94 FlyPIJets : I just want to make this clear, no disrespect AA777jr, I am in no way predicting the demise of RDU-LGW. I am trying to understand it better. I have a
95 FlyPIJets : Silly question, ask UA, US, DL etc... they all make money - money comes in the door, just not enough for a profit. (This is completely OT)
96 MAH4546 : I know that, I was just thinking of the term "making money" entirely differently. I've never heard the term "making money" used in place of "making r
97 Post contains images FlyPIJets : Well, the things you learnt on a.net
98 MAH4546 : Not quite. If you are "making money", you are in the black. Everything brings in revenue, not money. You can't say "Raleigh-London is making money, b
99 FlyPIJets : Impossible for you to believe that something can make money and loose money at the same time!?! Come on MAH, I think your brain is more pliable than
100 FlyPIJets : Joke for you: What makes money and looses money at the same time? AA RDU-LGW. (It's just a joke, not even a funny one.)
101 Commavia : Why, on earth, would DL ever step in and fly RDU-LGW? RDU is less than 400 miles from the mother of all hubs, ATL. I doubt that DL would cut into the
102 Cltguy : Any predections on the LA flight?
103 FlyPIJets : There have been some pretty good comments in previous threads. Both ERJ170 and MAH4546 have some pretty insightful things to say on RDU-LAX. If it we
104 RDUDDJI : Back when they had the 762 on the route (prior to summer 2001). It did DFW-RDU-LGW and another 762 did LGW-RDU-DFW. So RDU had two daily 762's instea
105 FlyPIJets : And I could be very wrong about this, but didn't the 762 continue to LAX? was it LAX-DFW-RDU-LGW. That gave RDU one stop wide-body to LAX. I could be
106 Commavia : Yes, correct. AA has a 762 fly LAX-DFW-RDU-LGW and the reverse as late as 1999-2000. As for nowadays, the 777s in and out of LGW normally fly in this
107 ConcordeBoy : Correct, and they can be swapped out with New Orleans, Portland (OR), Kansas City, and Honolulu. It could do it with Pax/Bags... but add in cargo, an
108 Sllevin : Think of it this way. A multi-billion dollar companywith significant offices in London and RDU. Because of the technical kind of work, a ton of stuff
109 Cltguy : I can tell you right now that US/HP is not going to fly a RDU-LAX flight. SWA maybe in a couple years.
110 Post contains images 1millionflyer : You would be shocked how much a Gulfstream cost to operate to Europe back and forth. I have heard NetJets is looking to do something with their under
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