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It's Official: Spotting In CDG Is Forbidden!  
User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2390 posts, RR: 9
Posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 17796 times:
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Hi guys,

I regret having to announce that but from what I've read on a popular aviation French forum spotting has become a risky hobby for our fellow French spotters. http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/kerozen/
Since 7/7 London attacks, French Authorities have reinforced security measures to a higher level (they call it the Vigipirate plan). Which means that all spotters seen by the French Military Police in CDG are ousted... I've even read that you CANNOT stand more than 5 minutes on the cycling path along the runways. I don't even talk about a very popular place like the // taxiways in front of the Sofitel Hotel...
A spotter even told me that for French Police taking pictures anywhere in airport perimeter is FORBIDDEN !!   
So in which world are we living ?? Why are they focusing on us ??   
I'm really sad because I spotted in CDG the day before the London attacks and we really had a lot of fun with many French, British and Swedish spotters being there as well.
Shall a letter/email be set to ADP ?

Regards and French spotters: keep faith !!   

FB.

[Edited 2005-07-24 10:33:01]


Life is great at 41.000 feet...
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIwantaBBJ From Switzerland, joined Jun 2002, 776 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 17714 times:
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Yes, I also read all those kerozen-messages now for days... I really feel sorry for the locals. I myself will probably cancel my trip mid-august!

I don't see much use in sending a letter/email to the airport! I am certain they will not reply!

Mike


User currently offlineSQNo1 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 687 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 17695 times:

Intresting, I took many pictures of planes in terminal 1 and the building. See my trip report below.

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/trip_reports/read.main/60957/


User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 17685 times:

This is sad...

Maybe we should send a message from A.net to ADP so in the future if this whole thing collapses and our hobby is in danger because of some silly rebels, so at least they could issue some sort of pass to fellow spotters...


User currently offlineAOMlover From France, joined Jul 2001, 1305 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 17664 times:

Oh mon dieu ! That's sad, CDG is an awesome place for spotting ! I've spent so many hours in front of that Sofitel...I also feel sorry for Philippe Noret and all the spotters who've been posting gorgeous pictures taken at CDG on this website.

User currently offlineBA319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8535 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 17608 times:
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Really? I spent the entire sunday there last week both inside the terminal near the TGV and on the roof also near the TGV. no problems at all.

If this is true it is very sad.



111,732,3,4,5,7,8,BBJ,741,742,743,744,752,762,763,764,772,77L,773,77W,L15,D10,30,40,AB3,AB6,A312.313,319,320,321,332,333
User currently offlineAirplanepics From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2732 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 17540 times:

I was there a few weeks ago after a visit to the airshow. Certainly had some graet locations. Shame the heat haze spoilt the photos though.


Simon - London-Aviation.com
User currently offlineUN_B732 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 4289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 17495 times:

I'm shocked and appalled... Many French constantly criticise the Americans and now are confining the freedom of their own people.
Who wants to get a petition going? Do we have someone who knows French who can draft a letter to ADP?



What now?
User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17208 times:
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Well of course I didn't say there were new fences and new indications BUT when a patrol nears a group of spotters, there are absolutely no discussions possible... I'm wondering on which law basis you can prevent people from taking pictures on a public area !!! THIS IS NOT LEGAL !!
Even in China spotting is allowed !!

FB.



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineQANTASforever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17188 times:

So much for Liberté.

QFF


User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17174 times:

Quoting UN_B732 (Reply 7):
Many French constantly criticise the Americans and now are confining the freedom of their own people.

You're surprised?  Smile

Looking for clarification. The original post is a little vague -- Is it really official policy to forbid spotting or are the security agencies merely questioning spotters more often? Sorry I'm not a french speaker....

regards


User currently offline'Longreach' From Australia, joined Jul 2001, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17161 times:

I am not a spotter but I suggest that airliners.net admin produce something as a whole, rather than one or two people complaining.

In the letter/petition suggest an alternative. Name the spots which are the best and request one or two of them be void of these new rules for spotting purposes. Unfortunately its the world we live in, and they do have a job to do.


User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17078 times:

Im for all members on A.net, about 19272?, write a complaint letter to CDG. I think they would soon get the mesage, just imagine 19272 complaint messages..!

[Edited 2005-07-24 16:33:26]


Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
User currently offlineNewkai From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17051 times:

Fight the system! Let's see how many a.netters can get arrested! I suggest 40 of us show up at the same time in the same spot and start taking photos, then chain ourselves to something for effect!

User currently offlineNewkai From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 17044 times:

Quoting Flying Belgian (Reply 8):
THIS IS NOT LEGAL !!
Even in China spotting is allowed !!

There's always ways for authorities to get around laws using "emergency provisions."


User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17030 posts, RR: 67
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 16639 times:

Quoting Newkai (Reply 14):

There's always ways for authorities to get around laws using "emergency provisions."

Of course. What are you going to do, sue the government? Of course you can, but unless you have the money, time and energy for a protracted legal fight (which you are in now way sure of winning) it's alost cause.



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineDeltaWings From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 1294 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 16555 times:

But they cant stop you from spotting from the ETAP Hotel, come one. At least you can still do from there.


Homer: Marge, it takes two to lie. One to lie and one to listen.
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16494 times:

Another great loss, if true.

Spotting attracts tourists, and I reckon it boosts security, with all those additional eyes and ears keeping watch for free.



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2387 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16466 times:

I don't think sending 5'000 letters to ADP will help at all. It is one of the worst run state enterprises I have ever heard of (I say that from both a passenger and airline perspective). They will ignore you as long as they possibly can. Newkai's idea seems more feasible, go there and bring some TV guys with you and see whether they leave you in peace. I would want to see them asking 300+ spotters (typical day at CDG during Air Show) to move on  Smile.


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineCxsjr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16108 times:

Quoting Newkai (Reply 13):
Fight the system! Let's see how many a.netters can get arrested! I suggest 40 of us show up at the same time in the same spot and start taking photos, then chain ourselves to something for effect!

Probably not a good idea, given what happened the day before yesterday in Stockwell, South London - I know this was the British police but looks like nobody's taking any prisoners at the moment!


User currently offlineGuy From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 2 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 16033 times:

How about setting up an "Airport Watch" program similar to the one in CYOW. They are mainly spotters who have gone through a police security check and simply report back to the security center about suspicious activities around the airport perimeter. They are not to intervene. Just observe and report.

User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17030 posts, RR: 67
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15937 times:

Quoting Cxsjr (Reply 19):

Probably not a good idea, given what happened the day before yesterday in Stockwell, South London - I know this was the British police but looks like nobody's taking any prisoners at the moment!

From reports, it seems the guy didn't follow police orders. Chaining yourself to a fence is a mite different.


This whole thing is silly. It's pretty easy to shoot down a plane with an shoulder launched AA missile from zillions of locations, many pretty far from airports. Prohibiting spotting from close to an airport is amazingly useless when it comes to bolstering security. If terrorists want data on aircraft, movements, etc all they have to do it get jobs at the airport, search the web, etc... Why expose themselves by sitting at the perimeter fence?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineGrimey From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 451 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 15919 times:

There was a tread a while back where spotters are being used as security in MEL I wonder why they don't do that in other airports, put my name down on any letter of complaint because I was in CDG only once but I was like a child in a candy store with all the sights there.

Grimey


User currently offlineRev3oh2 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 141 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15359 times:
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Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 21):
Prohibiting spotting from close to an airport is amazingly useless when it comes to bolstering security. If terrorists want data on aircraft, movements, etc all they have to do it get jobs at the airport, search the web, etc... Why expose themselves by sitting at the perimeter fence?

Very good points. At Charlotte Douglas International, our big US Airways hub, the most visible security measure taken post-9/11 was to take down all trees at the end of runway 18R, where the best public viewing area is located.

Not only did it expose any possible hiding places, but it also vastly improved the view of traffic on final approach.



...let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.
User currently offlineMD80Nut From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 922 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15274 times:

I'm really sorry to hear spotting is forbidden at CDG. Sadly, I expect we will see more of that in other major airports around the world. I hope I'm wrong.  hissyfit 

Cheers, Ralph



Fly Douglas Jets DC-8 / DC-9 / DC-10 / MD80 / MD11 / MD90 / 717
25 ZRH : This is ridiculous. Simply again a most stupid overreaction which won't prevent any terrorist attack.
26 Gary2880 : first ABZ.. then CDG... all the big airports are going under =( granted not everywhere here but the best and most useful area
27 ConcordeBoy : ....didn't IAH (at least temporarily experiement with) unofficially employing spotters to keep an eye on a certain spot?
28 Jacobin777 : wow..@ SFO...they only prevented spotters going from certain locations, and added a security fence along part of the taxiiway to get to the 28's (as b
29 SATL382G : Because it's the easiest and quickest way. If they get a job they have to go thru all the motions -- training, immigration checks, etc. Web use can b
30 Voodoo : What are the alternatives for those of us who plan, i.e. have tickets bought, for CDG in the near future? Whats Orly like these days? And, besides the
31 Boysteve : Does CDG, or other airports have an official viewing area, such as the one at MAN. Surely this is a good idea as all spotters gather in one location,
32 Post contains images Udo : It's also the easiest and quickest way to be spotted by the police, so only totally stupid terrorists would stay for a while at those places. Web use
33 Starlionblue : Point taken, but as Udo says spotters are hardly anonymous either. If you really want info on aircraft movements, get flight tracker software, a good
34 Atmx2000 : Well not exactly. They did hang around airports as they scoped out flights they were interested in hijacking by flying on those same flights.
35 Post contains images Kyril : What i did today worked. I called a couple of friends that are lawyers... Went to CDG and play my country's favorite sport: "to f*ck" this autorities.
36 SWISSER : Maybe the police has some difficulties between recognizing an EOS with a very nice lense and a Bazooka with those binary brains?
37 Udo : So that would make all pax much more suspicious than those spotters hanging around at the fence. Regards Udo
38 MissedApproach : I think I heard of a program similar to that in the US somewhere, & it sounds like a good idea to me. Who could resist free labour? Does anyone serio
39 Post contains images ManchesterMAN : Yet again airport authorities react in the wrong way to spotters/photographers. More airports should have the attitude of MAN and use spotters to figh
40 Starlionblue : And that's the way it should be...
41 SATL382G : Well actually they did but not in the manner you're thinking of.... You are thinking like a spotter. The guy who is on his jihad is not a spotter and
42 SpdbrdConcorde : I think that the baboons in the white house must be twisting arms...
43 StealthZ : And at SYD, a few folks at the Tower mound waiting for JQ logo jet(which landed on a different runway!!)... the "long arm of the law" (Aust. Protectiv
44 Udo : Then what did they do? How do you know? These guys are smarter than many people think, including you. Then security patrols should frequently change
45 Post contains images DID747 : Hi, dear friends, I remember when I was young in 1980. I'm from Normandy and at the time, I spent all my summer holiday time with my aunt and my uncle
46 SATL382G : Ahhh, ok kind of obvious here that that you do not know much about the subject. I'd suggest you do some reading on the training activities these fell
47 CA228 : This is sad, but I think you will see this in all international airports in the near future, if not already. Regardless if there are any official anno
48 Udo : They had training lessons in flying, but tell me one source which suggests they were hanging around at an airport fence. Well, if there were random c
49 SATL382G : I didn't say that and frankly neither did you... What you said and what I was responding to was: And it's quite obvious the 9/11 terrorists did not h
50 Udo : It's not obvious at all that they spent hours of time at the airport fence like spotters do. All the activities you mention are not typical for spott
51 Nonrevman : The odd thing about CDG is that most of the video and photos of the Concorde crash likely came from spotters. I challenge anyone to tell me otherwise
52 Newkai : Yes, but that man ran from the police. It's quite dumb to run from police, especially onto a subway car when police are chasing you the day after bom
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