Mrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4999 times:
Reliable sources tell me that in view of the US expansion, AI is seriously considering to introduce a third service to NYC via FRA. It was said that this flight might be considered before any expansion to SFO or IAH takes place. It was said that this flight should fit into a scissors strategy via FRA (as the Transit Visa is becoming more and more unlikely) and be commenced from a "smaller" (here less than 10 Mio ) city in India.
Is anyone able to confirm or amend this information? for me, this is a surprise (inevitably they first need equipment - or is this an indication that new rustbuckets are leased?), as I expected SFO to be launched in the first instance.. NYC (and FRA-US) seems to be a strong market.. I went three times to FRA airport last week, and the AI counters have unbelievable queues with Westeners (probably Germans) / gauras , waiting to fly to ORD or LAX.. - and, probably AI first needs to get their act together and get the equipment, without disrupting the schedule.. I was forced to rebook myself on QR (this case not AIs fault, but the rains in BOM - and I was booked via BOM)..
And may I propose that someone demolishes the Ministry of Civil Aviation and finishes their control on an airline, that has the potential to be global player? What Patel is doing (hindering the growth while promoting privates and foreign airlines) is insane... every Kindergarden Kid would teach him a lesson.. Privatize AI!!!
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11952 posts, RR: 37 Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4901 times:
Personally, I'm surprised they're not going nonstop, which of course brings us back to the airplanes they need and can't get. However, is it Patel or the civil servants? It may well be that he is not fully in control of his brief or indeed, that the problem is with another department (such as Finance).
This may well be a job for PM Singh; basically, get the top civil servants and ministers around for a pleasant drink at the PM's official residence, set a date (say the 30th September), by which complete approval for both the IC and AI aircraft deals will be finalised. If not, there will be an investigation of both departments by the Indian security services, as a result of which senior officials idenitified as obstacles will be arrested and spend the rest of their careers doing survey work for the Department of Coal in the Western Ghats.
At this stage in the game, fear is the only thing that will motivate sufficiently to make the decision come about more quickly.
Mrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4885 times:
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 2): f not, there will be an investigation of both departments by the Indian security services, as a result of which senior officials idenitified as obstacles will be arrested and spend the rest of their careers doing survey work for the Department of Coal in the Western Ghats.
If someone sets a motion for a petition, I am the first one to vote affirmative... I recently saw a documentary on the inhuman conditions of coal mine workers in jharkand (Rs 30 / day of 12 hrs ++) and hope that our so-called civil servants (=babus) will reach the same fate
Gamps From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 469 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4882 times:
However, is it Patel or the civil servants?
Undoubtedly Patel who is acting as Minister of Jet Airways instead of Minister of Civil Aviation. I had high hopes when he was selected as minister as his background is in running successful business, but now it is clear that he would rather help his biz buddies than running the govt.
All acts of his in last few months, including "review" of the once approved order of Indian Airlines A320s, A319 have been postponed and who is reaping the benefit? Good ol' Jet Airways. And heck AI's Boeing order we now hear is being "reviewed" again.
If this continues in all probability Air India will just disappear - not that it hasn't already with fleet reduced to 20ish planes.
Bartond From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 788 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4768 times:
MRNiji,
So AI is looking more seriously at IAH than at DFW? You mentioned in your first post that expansion to "SFO or IAH" was mentioned.
Just curious, as there were some posts a few weeks back about DFW and IAH "battling" for AI service to India.
HZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4611 times:
My company's largest office is in Bangalore (in population), and the company I worked for previously now has a large in Bangalore. I hope I'm spelling it right--anyhoo, I was curious as to why there were no flights from Western Europe & North America direct to Bangalore.
Blrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4556 times:
Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 7): I was curious as to why there were no flights from Western Europe & North America direct to Bangalore.
LH has a FRA-BLR daily flight to Bangalore, which is always booked to capacity From this november, NWA will be starting AMS-BLR daily, BA will start LHR-BLR 5 times a week, and AF will start CDG-BLR 5 times a week.
kinda funny that AI is missing from the list. So much so for our national carrier...huh!!
Moreover the article make pretty much everything clear. Those direct flights to JFK/ORD/SFO shall be last to come as they are so dependent of B772LR.
rgds
VT-ASJ
BlrBird From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 577 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4436 times:
Quoting Aseem (Reply 9): kinda funny that AI is missing from the list.
As recenlty as couple months ago, a big guy @ AI said they dont get enough pax from BLR to fill the flights that is the reason they dont start any flights from BLR!
If this is true, it makes me wonder how can BLR sustain this huge influx of flights!
Aseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2042 posts, RR: 11 Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4412 times:
Quoting BlrBird (Reply 10): As recenlty as couple months ago, a big guy @ AI said they dont get enough pax from BLR to fill the flights that is the reason they dont start any flights from BLR!
actually he wasn't wrong, as the rest of the airlines have divided the pie amongst themselves, and haven't even spared crumbs for poor AI chaps.
On the serious note, I don't expect to see BLR europe direct flights any time soon. At the most they'll start milkman flights like BLR-BOM-etc-etc. As the article clearly says the next step is more flights via CDG/FRA, next comes the direct ones upon delivery of B772s. And God know when direct once from BLR/HYD/MAA to elsewhere.
rgds
VT-ASJ
Blrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 3 Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4294 times:
Quoting BlrBird (Reply 10): As recenlty as couple months ago, a big guy @ AI said they dont get enough pax from BLR to fill the flights that is the reason they dont start any flights from BLR!
That is strange, as the LH flights are always fully booked, and their fares are quite high too compared to other carriers. I have flown SQ twice from US west coast to BLR, and I saw quite a few passengers ending up on the SIN-BLR leg, and the flights in both directions were full. Another popular route from BLR these days is the one from TG, BLR-BKK-NRT-SEA, and the total travel time is 24 hours. Of course, the return journey sucks. I know lots of people who take this flight now instead of Eva airlines which lots of people(espcially parents ) used to prefer earlier as it came directly to SEA. No idea how full the Gulf Air and Srilankan airlines flight are though.
TKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 4255 times:
I for one belieive a third NYC flight bypassing BOM/DEL is possible and viable. And there is logic behind it too . Take for eg BLR- till now only serviced by LH, now BA,AF and NW are all setting up flights. MAA which only had LH and BA now has a daily DL frequency as well. HYD , till Feb this year had to depend on EK for connections to US East Coast (other than AI ofcourse) now already have LH and KL has already announced a thrice weekly service from Winter 2005. So it looks like somebody is waking up atlast in AI.
Nimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3077 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4171 times:
Quoting BlrBird (Reply 10): a big guy @ AI said they dont get enough pax from BLR
< rant >
That's probably because hardly any one prefers to fly AI - with their limited flights ex-BLR, odd-ball routings, and seriously precarious situation with the lack of aircraft. Even IC has a much better service ex-BLR - with daily SIN, and frequent BKK/KUL type of services, so very few people choose AI for SIN/BKK either.
Besides with their limited connectivity to key markets from BLR what do they expect? And their "hub" strategy is a sham, given the lack of feeder flights from spokes, or the lack of a real "bank" of flights every couple of hours.
Have they ever taken a look at the LH or TG or SQ flights ex-BLR?
< /rant >
ContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 3762 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4018 times:
Why doesn't AI lease a pair of B777-200ER's and operate JFK-DEL nonstop to compete with Continental, which as of Nov 1, will operate daily EWR to DEL, with 777's.
the situation is that neither B772ERs or A345 are easy to come by these days. AI isn't the only one looking for..btw!! they had put up a tender on their website a while ago. No news about any responses.
rgds
VT-ASJ
Mrniji From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3299 times:
Sorry for the late reply for teh thread I opened.. (if you guys wanna know why, check the trip reports section soon.. My trip FRA-DEL took me about 36 hrs "due to unforseeable circumstances.. - not AI though, but they had a siderole )
Quoting Bartond (Reply 5): So AI is looking more seriously at IAH than at DFW?
I read these threads, too, and was surprised about the rumors.. of course DFW lobbied, but afaik IAH was teh only serious consideration taken
Quoting BlrBird (Reply 10): As recenlty as couple months ago, a big guy @ AI said they dont get enough pax from BLR to fill the flights that is the reason they dont start any flights from BLR!
Quoting Blrsea (Reply 12): That is strange, as the LH flights are always fully booked, and their fares are quite high too compared to other carriers.
In fact, tehre is a big logic behind your question: O&D BLR-FRA/CDG etc is marginal - pax come from different destinations and connect in the respective hub, filling up the planes (example LH: from SFO, ORD, LON, LAX etc etc etc - all connect i FRA). take AIs case: Ai's hub (supposedly) is in BOM.. so they would need to have nonstops from BOM to all these cities in North America and Europe and then tehy could fill up a daily 744 from BOM to BLR.. if AI had a real hub in Europe and many north-american nonstops, they could fill up such flights. Or if they had PROPER interline arrangements in the US (codesharing. lets say all to ORD), they could "collect" teh pax there and fly a profitable nonstop.. does this make sense? Bottomline: No real point-tp-point potential, only hub and spoke works here
TUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1834 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3259 times:
Is it unrealistic to see AI at BOS anytime in the not too distant future, given the large Indian population in and around the BOS area?
[Edited 2005-08-01 19:45:15]
Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
Aseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2042 posts, RR: 11 Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3244 times:
Quoting TUNisia (Reply 18): Is it unrealistic to see AI at BOS anytime in the not too distant future, given the large Indian population in and around the BOS area?
yes it is unrealistic! if you see the distribution of AI's services to North America you'd notice one daily flight each to JFK/EWR, one to ORD, and to LAX. That leaves Southern part almost blank. There is no point in increasing frequency to North East without first starting to IAH/IAD/SFO.
rgds
VT-ASJ
Blrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3221 times:
Quoting Mrniji (Reply 17): Or if they had PROPER interline arrangements in the US (codesharing. lets say all to ORD), they could "collect" teh pax there and fly a profitable nonstop.. does this make sense?
Makes sense, however, AI is yet to recognize that. I beleive AI has code-share with UA on west coast to ferry pax to their LAX-IND flight, and with AA to ferry the pax to their east coast-IND flights. I had taken the AA SEA-JFK flight to connect to AI's JFK-LHR-BOM-BLR flight, and since AA didn't have non-stop SEA-JFK, it was SEA-DFW-JFK. So the overall flight was SEA-DFW-JFK-LHR-BOM-BLR which was very painful, given the AI's service or the lack of it. If they atleast had good code-shares with other domestic US operators, it will be good. Limiting it to just one per zone is very short-sighted!!
Aseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2042 posts, RR: 11 Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3211 times:
Quoting Blrsea (Reply 21): SEA-DFW-JFK-LHR-BOM-BLR which was very painful
must have been one big pain in the , are you sure it was DFW not DTW . Why didn't you fly via pacific. CX or Asiana would have been better. And if you were that particular about AI, then could have taken it from NRT.
rgds
VT-ASJ
Blrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1227 posts, RR: 3 Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3189 times:
Quoting Aseem (Reply 22): must have been one big pain in the . Why didn't you fly via pacific. CX or Asiana would have been better. And if you were that particular about AI, then could have taken it from NRT.
I was forced to fly that route due to non-availability of other options. I was flying in first week of jan and was booking during 2nd week of dec as some work suddenly came to an end, and I thought I could make good use of it to visit home .
Sponsor Message: 
From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
) city in India. 
From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2425 posts, 
From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11952 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 469 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 259 posts, 
From this november, NWA will be starting AMS-BLR daily, BA will start LHR-BLR 5 times a week, and AF will start CDG-BLR 5 times a week.
, 3762 posts, 
, are you sure it was DFW not DTW . Why didn't you fly via pacific. CX or Asiana would have been better. And if you were that particular about AI, then could have taken it from NRT.
Printer friendly format 
