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UA Launching IAD-NAS/MBJ/PUJ/SXM; ORD-SJD  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32177 posts, RR: 72
Posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5425 times:

United is launching new Caribbean service this winter from Dulles, including new service to Nassau. United serving Nassau will now mean all six legacy carriers fly to the airport.

UA's service to Montego Bay, Punta Cana, and St. Maarten from O'Hare will be joined with by service from Dulles this winter, as well.

UA will be the only non-stop service from Dulles to all four markets, although US Airways flies Washington/Regan-Nassau and Air Jamaica flies Baltimore-Montego Bay.

They are also launching O'Hare-San Jose del Cabo service, and resuming other Denver/O'Hare seasonal holiday routes.

http://prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/storie...story/08-01-2005/0004079607&EDATE=


a.
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5366 times:

Was somewhat surprised they didnt launch IAD-SXM at the same time as ORD, despite US's operations.

Oh well, good stuff.


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2660 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5306 times:

It's about friggen time. UA neglects the Caribbean because of the partnership with US, and until recently underserved Mexico as well, until Frontier was making a pretty penny out of DEN. They finally added some worthwhile service without someone else doing it first  Wink. Good luck to UA!

User currently offlineCHI787ORD From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5181 times:

IS UA still flying ORD-EZE?

User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

I was unaware UA flew to MBJ out of ORD... i believe that is a new service as well, not just the one from IAD

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineIslandboy From Bahamas, joined Dec 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

Quote:
United is launching new Caribbean service this winter from Dulles, including new service to Nassau. United serving Nassau will now mean all six legacy carriers fly to the airport.

Woohoo! It's about time United came to NAS. Wonder why they want IAD instead of trying from ORD in the first place. Mah, do you think this is in case B6 decides to start the route? Hopefully DEN may happen as well.

**In the article it says NAS is the second largest destination in the Caribbean. Whose the first? Puerto Rico?

[Edited 2005-08-02 00:46:33]


Looks like the fresh wind has gone stale
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32177 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 4):
I was unaware UA flew to MBJ out of ORD... i believe that is a new service as well, not just the one from IAD

No, ORD-MBJ was launched last winter.

Quoting Islandboy (Reply 5):
Wonder why they want IAD instead of trying from ORD in the first place

Nassau is an east-coast destination. American Eagle's new O'Hare-Nassau service is more than enough for the market, and may even go seasonal if off-season loads aren't strong.

Quoting Islandboy (Reply 5):
Hopefully DEN may happen as well.

Don't count on it. The market is pretty much non-existant. Nassau is a dominantly east-coast destination. East coasters flock to Nassau in droves, but people on the West Coast barely know it exists. They go to Cabo.

Quoting Islandboy (Reply 5):
**In the article it says NAS is the second largest destination in the Caribbean. Whose the first? Puerto Rico?

Definitley San Juan. Though even United got their geography wrong...Nassau is not in the Caribbean.



a.
User currently offlineFlyua From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 314 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5110 times:

Dear MAH4546:

As for Nassau not being in the Caribbean: well, at least we were close!

On United's original website, the "Friendly Skyline" of 1995, Lima was listed as one of our European destinations, and one of our destinations in Brazil was the lovely San Paula.

United's getting there!


User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3242 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4982 times:

Now is NOT the time for UAL to be starting this, for they do not have the downstroke to maintain staying power in those markets, much less fund the fixed expenses of setting up a new station. Let's not forget they are in Chapter 11, on the verge of Chapter 7. Now, if they had started these markets back about 1998-1999 or so, instead of diddling around with Billy Franke and threatening to buy America West, they could've been a credible entity in those fine low-yield leisure markets.

[Edited 2005-08-02 03:30:40]


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User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32177 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4958 times:

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 8):
they could've been a credible entity in those fine low-yield leisure markets.

Many Caribbean stations are anything but low-yield, especially St. Maarten.



a.
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1698 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4942 times:

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 8):
Now is NOT the time for UAL to be starting this, for they do not have the downstroke to maintain staying power in those markets, much less fund the fixed expenses of setting up a new station. Let's not forget they are in Chapter 11, on the verge of Chapter 7.

No, now IS the time to start, the markets for these destinations are booming, that's why practically every other airline that can, is serving those destinations. And like MAH4546 said above-- the carribean is hardly low yield, especially in the fall and winter.

Also, if you look for UA's quarter report in the forums, you will see that UA is not "on the verge of chapter 7".

Their strength is in their international operations, so why doesnt it make sense to expand? Look at how well their Mexico operations are going...


User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3242 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 4882 times:

Quoting UA772IAD (Reply 10):
Also, if you look for UA's quarter report in the forums, you will see that UA is not "on the verge of chapter 7".

That is inconsequential. The truth is: they lost $1.4 billion last quarter. Period. They ought to be ashamed doing what they've done during their time in Chap. 11 bankruptcy. They've spent so much money, none on which is conducive to a tangible turnaround. They have become a leach to the system, thanks to their upper management. Also, the ARE on the verge on the Chapter 7, however, it will never be public knowledge until immediate liquaidation is announced. Any announcement of Chap.7 prior to liquidation would be devastating to an airline's operations.

[Edited 2005-08-02 04:38:08]


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User currently offlineHoya From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4830 times:

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 11):
The truth is: they lost $1.4 billion last quarter. Period.

Dude, sorry, but you should read the press releases and news stories a bit closer. If you did, you would realize a lot of those losses were non-cash items, involving lease rejections and mostly the pensions being taken over by the PBGC. UA has actually made an operating profit of $48 million for the 2nd quarter, and its cash balance increased to $2.6 billion. UA is nowhere near Chap. 7. Even Michael Boyd, the well know aviation analyst, said that UA will be a 'permanent part' of the aviation industry.


Anyway, it is nice to see UA expanding its network. When I was in Nassau this past March, I did see UA signs and a check-in area. I think its part of their code-share with Gulfstream, but I don't think UA would need to invest too much into setting up a station there as some stuff seems to be prepared for them.



Hoya Saxa!!
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3242 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4794 times:

Quoting Hoya (Reply 12):
Dude, sorry, but you should read the press releases and news stories a bit closer. If you did, you would realize a lot of those losses were non-cash items, involving lease rejections and mostly the pensions being taken over by the PBGC. UA has actually made an operating profit of $48 million for the 2nd quarter, and its cash balance increased to $2.6 billion. UA is nowhere near Chap. 7. Even Michael Boyd, the well know aviation analyst, said that UA will be a 'permanent part' of the aviation industry.


Anyway, it is nice to see UA expanding its network. When I was in Nassau this past March, I did see UA signs and a check-in area. I think its part of their code-share with Gulfstream, but I don't think UA would need to invest too much into setting up a station there as some stuff seems to be prepared for them.

Sorry. $1.4 billion is $1.4 billion. The numbers just don't add up. Regardless of what Michael Boyd says, money talks. They've got alot of fishy, if not fraudulent accounting going on. It'll be another Enron or Worldcom. As I said earlier, the expansion should've happened pre-2000.....not now.



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User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4793 times:

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 3):
IS UA still flying ORD-EZE?

They planned to start it later this year with a 763, however "issues" revolving around leases and certain 767-300's means that will not happen now. UA announced that in late May/early June I believe.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22304 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 14):
They planned to start it later this year with a 763, however "issues" revolving around leases and certain 767-300's means that will not happen now. UA announced that in late May/early June I believe.

Didn't it run for a while, like maybe December or January through pretty recently?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4744 times:

Will all of these be Ted flights or mainline?

User currently offlineFlyua From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 314 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4744 times:

StevenUhl777: while nothing's set in stone, it appears the ORD-EZE nonstop returns on December 15th. At least, that's according to Apollo. Also, the second daily IAD-GRU nonstop is still set to begin on October 31st.

Cubsrule: yes, the ORD-EZE flight was running through at least April or May, I believe.

Bicoastal: all of the newly announced flights appear to be mainline! I'm not sure about the new ORD-Los Cabos, though. I'll check on that.


User currently offlineFlyua From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 314 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4728 times:

Bicoastal: yes, ORD-SJD (now I know my Los Cabos airport code!) will be a mainline flight. All newly announced flights out of IAD and ORD will be mainline.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32177 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4723 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 14):

They planned to start it later this year with a 763, however "issues" revolving around leases and certain 767-300's means that will not happen now. UA announced that in late May/early June I believe.

It started in October 2004. Lack of aircraft mean they suspended it last June. It resumes in December.



a.
User currently offlineUA744Flagship From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4675 times:

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 13):
Sorry. $1.4 billion is $1.4 billion. The numbers just don't add up.

You're in for a rude awakening if you ever try to finance a business plan.

I suggest taking Accounting 101. Someone in your age bracket should at least understand that with financial accounting, a loss is by no means cash gone.

The numbers do add up; just not in your simplistic world.


User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3242 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4643 times:

Quoting UA744Flagship (Reply 20):
The numbers do add up; just not in your simplistic world.

You probably won't be as condescending and hateful once you're standing in that unemployment line. If you lost $1.4billion of someone else's money, you probably would not be living any more. That's just the way it goes.



.......
User currently offlineUA772IAD From Australia, joined Jul 2004, 1698 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4522 times:

JMC1975,
As stated by others, the loss is inconsequential- and due mainly to political reasons- spending $602 million to turn the pension plan over to the federal government (NY TIMES). I suggest you pick up a copy of today's (Sunday's) New York Times. The Sunday Business section has a huge, thurough, well researched article about how Wall Street has damaged United's pension plans. In fact here's the link, it makes good reading-
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/31/business/yourmoney/31pension.html


User currently offlineHoya From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4049 times:

Quoting Flyua (Reply 17):
it appears the ORD-EZE nonstop returns on December 15th. At least, that's according to Apollo. Also, the second daily IAD-GRU nonstop is still set to begin on October 31st.

Has UA reallocated 767s to fly these routes, converting them from domestic to international configuration? Or is UA discontinuing some international service to allow for the ORD-EZE and the 2nd IAD-GRU flights? UA stopped ORD-EZE in June due to a shortage of 767s, so from where are the planes coming then?



Hoya Saxa!!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32177 posts, RR: 72
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3999 times:

Quoting Hoya (Reply 24):
Has UA reallocated 767s to fly these routes, converting them from domestic to international configuration? Or is UA discontinuing some international service to allow for the ORD-EZE and the 2nd IAD-GRU flights? UA stopped ORD-EZE in June due to a shortage of 767s, so from where are the planes coming then?

Reduced long-haul flying to other markets, such as Europe, in the winter. The second IAD-GRU flight is the biggest waste of a valuable US-Brazil slot I have ever seen. They should have at least put it at a new gateway...SFO or LAX. IAD-GRU is such a strong performer for UA, but adding so much capacity is going to kill the route's performance. I don't know what UA is thinking, other than taking some temporary losses for the long term benefit of keeping the frequencies.



a.
25 Bicoastal : UA will easily be able to fill the additional IAD-GRU capacity from IAD. Right now when booking (EZE, too), people often have to go to their 2nd, 3rd,
26 MAH4546 : No doubt, but yields are going to take a serious beating.
27 UA744Flagship : You and me both. I would have thought LAXGRU would have been perfect to feed the #2 LAXNRT, but that is quickly going away now. Oy vey.
28 Gigneil : That is a wild and unbased accusation on your part. N
29 Bicoastal : "No doubt, but yields are going to take a serious beating." I disagree. The high yield traveler, too, is having trouble booking on United's flights. L
30 AS739X : This also can be a preemptive move, does UA see US leaving STAR and thier partnership and leaving them no way to get passengers to these places? Just
31 UA772IAD : LAX would be nice wouldn't it? What do you mean by it's quickly going away? Is the LAX-NRT run going to be dissolved? They really need some more plan
32 Islandboy : I was thinking besides CDG and FRA, are there any other International Destinations served by the legacy carriers?
33 MAH4546 : Huh? Are you asking about from a particular city? The US legacy airlines fly to close to 30 European cities. Or are you asking for a European airport
34 Islandboy : It was the latter. Thanks Mah!
35 UA772IAD : Do you mean anywhere else? I'll give you UA's EUROPE: LHR, FRA, CDG, ZRH, MUC, BRU, AMS (all from IAD, most from ORD and few from JFK) SOUTH AMERICA:
36 Jmc1975 : Well, it is the polar opposite to legitmate and honest accounting practices. Time will tell which one it really is.
37 Hoya : Huh? UA is being scrutinized heavily by both the bankruptcy court and the creditor's committee. None of them would let UA practice "fishy, if not fra
38 AlitaliaMD11 : All routes on the B757-200?
39 MAH4546 : No it's not. Their application was rejected. Without a doubt, UA will be applying again in 2007, though.
40 Jmc1975 : Exactly. As I said earlier, the executives at UA and the politicians will never let on that Chap.7 is imminent until the day UA announces immediate l
41 StevenUhl777 : You *STILL* don't get it. Do us all a favor and don't post here anymore. Are you the reincarnation of Kahala777 or his best friend?
42 Jc5280 : While I really do not agree with JMC1975 99% of the time, I have to agree with him on one point. None of the higher ups at UA would allow it to leak t
43 Post contains images Jmc1975 : I'm just stating the facts. This is an aviation discussion forum, where all input is and should be accepted. Your suggestion comes across as baised,
44 StevenUhl777 : That very well may have been the case a few months back. They're bound to confidentiality to not disclose information like that at specific times. Ri
45 JC5280 : Absolutely. UA is certainly not close to that kind of situation now as things have improved dramatically. But it was close. I am sure many companies h
46 Jmc1975 : True. But the $1.4B will have to paid at some point. Somebody has to pay the piper. They won't get off scott free. It's not so much a lost cause othe
47 Post contains links StevenUhl777 : I used to work for UA in '95 and '96. My Dad retired from there a few years ago. I don't work in the industry, just follow it closely, and combined w
48 Islandboy : Im just curious as to why United decided to enter NAS after all this time. I know that they codeshare with US who pretty much runs about 6-8 flights f
49 Baw716 : They are going to take on AA in the Caribbean? That's bold. They'll get killed. UA forgets that AA and UA run neck in neck in market share at O'Hare w
50 Post contains images UA744Flagship : Boy, it's that kind of surrenderist attitude that is indicative of the great business plan you have for us. There is room in the Caribbean for everyo
51 Joost : Not a strange thought, however, I think it is not about US leaving star, but it might well be that UA will have fewer antitrust immunicy with a merge
52 A330323X : UA and US certainly don't have antitrust immunity, which is a very different thing than code-sharing. They continue to compete vigorously on all rout
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