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Airline Mergers  
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3848 times:

With the ongoing merger between HP and US, could some of these possible mergers work?

CO+DL?
CO+AS?
AA+DL?
B6+F9?
YX+AI?

All of these combo's have simiar route structures, fleet commentality, and each possible airline would benefit from the mergers by gaining more cities to support their routes. I can't find any good matches for NW, or UA. Any Suggustions?

-Jeff M

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3811 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Thread starter):
CO+DL

Maybe, but they are both strong on the east, they should do something like US/HP with strong on both coasts.

Quoting COERJ145 (Thread starter):
CO+AS?

That seems better, don't know if it will work but sounds reasonable.

Quoting COERJ145 (Thread starter):
AA+DL?

Maybe, kind of odd match though. AA doesn't seem to go with anyone well.

Quoting COERJ145 (Thread starter):
B6+F9?

Maybe, but B6 does great on their own and F9 is doing ok but they are a good match in-case anything happens but they are both well run

Quoting COERJ145 (Thread starter):
YX+AI?

Wait, Midwest and who? Code won't come out.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3801 times:

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 1):
Wait, Midwest and who? Code won't come out

Airtran...sorry


User currently offlineFlyibaby From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3796 times:

B6 is too sure of themselves to merge with anyone, and I think they can afford to be. They keep adding aircraft and keeping the LF around 90% and keep pulling off a profit, even with the fuel costs. I don't see them doing anything other than on their own.

User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3793 times:

Quoting Flyibaby (Reply 3):
B6 is too sure of themselves to merge with anyone, and I think they can afford to be. They keep adding aircraft and keeping the LF around 90% and keep pulling off a profit, even with the fuel costs. I don't see them doing anything other than on their own.

YES

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 2):
Airtran...sorry

Ok, so I think FL and YX, would be ok... but they could do better. They both are focused on the same region (east and midwest-FL not so much)
--
US+UA could work, they already codeshare so...
UA+CO-CO strong on east and Europe, while UA is strong on EAST, WEST (Kind of) and the PACIFIC for sure.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineRamerinianair From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3779 times:

AirTran's code is FL. I think that the only one who can merge with AA would be UA since they have the common ORD hub and large ops in JFK and LGA. This would consolidate some routes and instead of competing, they could dominate. Of course, there would be the anti-trust thing. They have mostly Boeing fleets and the vast domestic presence of AA could boost feed the pacific dominance of UA. They are both the only ones who are allowed into LHR too!
SR



W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3769 times:

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 4):
US+UA could work, they already codeshare so...

Been there, already attempted, failed...luckily. Bad idea, all around.

Quoting Ramerinianair (Reply 5):
I think that the only one who can merge with AA would be UA since they have the common ORD hub and large ops in JFK and LGA.

Not a chance. UA is not big in JFK and LGA, but AA is.

Signed,
US Department of Justice
European Union
Government of Japan
and on and on and on...


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11972 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3754 times:

Quoting Ramerinianair (Reply 5):
I think that the only one who can merge with AA would be UA since they have the common ORD hub and large ops in JFK and LGA. This would consolidate some routes and instead of competing, they could dominate. Of course, there would be the anti-trust thing.

Yeah -- a big anti-trust thing. You could say that again.

AA and UA's route network overlap (not so much in New York, but definitely Chicago, L.A., transcon) would pretty much guarantee that the merger would never get regulatory approval. These two companies -- which arguably have the most overlapping networks of any two major legacy carriers in the U.S. -- would never get off the ground for precisely the reason you state -- they would consolidate routes and dominate. AA and UA together would have about one third of the entire U.S. market. DOJ would never allow that.


User currently offlineJdaniel001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

There will be one big domestic full-service carrier after AA gobbles up NW, DL, and CO. Then a few national LCC's, the new US, WN, B6, Ted and then maybe a few regionals. UA will be the biggest US flag carrier overseas. However, it will dump most of it's domestic presence and concentrate on the major business centers and TED and Express.

User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3705 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 9):
yes. have school year around so kids spend less time staying up late on their parents computers and posting redundant threads.

Awesome  Smile


User currently offlineLiedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3690 times:

STLGph you just won my respect. Good call!


If it was said by us, then it must be true.
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3650 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 9):
yes. have school year around so kids spend less time staying up late on their parents computers and posting redundant threads.

Hey, I own my comp anyway, if u don't like the thread, don't relpy to it, or suggust to have it deleted. I am also not a kid, i'm a teenager with an intrest in the world of aviaton hoping to become a pilot.  Angry


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9514 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3632 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 12):
i'm a teenager with an intrest in the world of aviaton hoping to become a pilot.

you want to be a pilot? then you'd better get busy suggesting lots of merger possibilities so you can be sure to have a job in a few years.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3629 times:

The issue is is that mergers have lots of hidden costs, ruin corporate cultures and normally start the demise and bankruptcy of the acquiring carrier

Airline History:

US Airways purchased:
PSA
Piedmont = Bankrupt

Continental purchased:
PeopleExpress = bankrupt (but survived)

American purchased:
TWA = American almost went bankrupt

Delta purchased:
ASA
Comair
Pan Am Europe Assets = almost bankrupt

etc etc etc


User currently offlineAggieflyboi04 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 208 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3612 times:

WN, FL, F9, B6 hehe would be intresting but will NEVER HAPPEN

User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3602 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 13):
you want to be a pilot? then you'd better get busy suggesting lots of merger possibilities so you can be sure to have a job in a few years.

Stop with the sarcasm!!!!!!!! bomb 


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9514 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 16):
Stop with the sarcasm!!!!!!!!

hey, honestly, i think it's great you know what you want to do. and i hope you stick to it. and i hope you're successful at it. and you get one hell of a dental plan. but never, ever, wish against yourself.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineVegasplanes From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 778 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 14):
Airline History:

US Airways purchased:
PSA
Piedmont = Bankrupt

Continental purchased:
PeopleExpress = bankrupt (but survived)

American purchased:
TWA = American almost went bankrupt

Delta purchased:
ASA
Comair
Pan Am Europe Assets = almost bankrupt

etc etc etc

Don't forget about Pan Am-National=well, we know.

Texas Int'l-Continental

Texas Int'l/Continental/People Express and Eastern, that was a GREAT combo.  Wink


User currently offlineVegasplanes From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 778 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3568 times:

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 18):

Texas Int'l/Continental/People Express and Eastern, that was a GREAT combo. Wink

I forgot that NY Air, Provincetown-Boston, and the original Frontier was also in that tangled mess, Britt Airways might also be included, so many airlines, so little memory.


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3538 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Thread starter):
CO+DL

Actually, this wouldn't be such a bad combination...just think, you'd have hubs in Atlanta, Cincinnati, Houston, Newark, and Salt Lake City, (presumably Cleveland would be cut) and assuming the DC-9 variants got gutted, which isn't all that unlikely, you'd have an all-Boeing operator. The only issue might be that huge smattering of focus cities that Delta has, namely Boston, Fort Lauderdale, New York (both Kennedy and LaGuardia) Orlando, Tampa, and Washington, of which some (the New York operations for starters) would be gone.

Quoting COERJ145 (Thread starter):
CO+AS?

Alaska Airlines is, put simply, nothing short of a mess right now. With their labor strife among their current employees, to say nothing of their 472 ramp service and stores agents at Seattle who are currently looking for another job, I'm not sure who would want to touch them. Operationally, however, this would be a relatively good fit, with hubs in Cleveland, Houston, Newark, and Seattle, and in Alaska's case, a nearly all-Boeing fleet, although the 737-200 and 737-400 would be new 737-variants in Continental's fleet, so those might go. In all likelyhood, the MD-80's Alaska has would be gone.

Quoting COERJ145 (Thread starter):
AA+DL?

Would be unlikely to get past the Department of Justice. For one, the combined carrier would be the largest slotholder at LaGuardia, in addition to likely being the largest carrier at Kennedy as well, although in neither case do they share a significant number of destinations (obviously, there is some overlap). Looking beyond the Big Apple, however, this could be a good fit. DL's MD-90's are an oddball, and likely would be gone, and the MD-88's could see the same fate. Likewise, Delta's 737-200's and 737-300's would likely be jettisoned, along with American's Airbuses. The other issue would be the regional fleets, with little synergy other than the CRJ-700, as American Eagle otherwise operates all-Embraer aircraft, whereas with the exception of Atlantic Southeast's ATR's (which would likely be spun into Executive Airlines d/b/a American Eagle), Atlantic Southeast and Comair operate all Bombardier aircraft. At this point, you have a pretty good fleet mix, plus hubs in Atlanta, Chicago (O'Hare), Cincinnati, Dallas-Fort Worth, Miami, St. Louis, Salt Lake City, and San Juan. St. Louis would likely be gone, however other than that, there aren't any other hubs that are obvious choices to pull down. The carrier would also be the dominant carrier in Boston, it should be worth noting.

Quoting COERJ145 (Thread starter):
B6+F9?

This merger makes a bit of sense, and might actually be a GREAT idea, as it would give jetBlue an opportunity to right-size, and in some cases (Burbank comes to mind) right-perform some routes, and perhaps start to string together jetBlue's currently disjointed network, using Denver and New York as the hubs.

Quoting COERJ145 (Thread starter):
YX+FL?

This happens to be one I don't like, simply because Midwest simply is saddled with too many problems and too many poor business decisions to survive. The 328Jet is an absolute disaster economically, and additionally, Midwest's business plan simply involves chasing after a segment of the market that is increasingly getting smaller. Furthermore, Midwest outsourcing their Milwaukee ramp to Skyway (OK, Skyway is wholly-owned by Midwest, but with much lower pay) will likely turn into a decision that will saddle them in this market for any passenger who isn't originating or terminating in Milwaukee. airTran pursuing this would be nothing short of a disaster.



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineFlyGuyClt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3451 times:

Take it from someone who has been there and done that. MERGERS, while they may look good on a route map are awful. Different company cultures, employees, seniority, and anything else that is negative.

Oh, the days of Florida Express and the BAC 1-11. Merger with Braniff II. However, that merger was great for us. The Braniff folks were awesome. But in the end. Bankruptcy, of course the owner at the time went to jail and then NBC but him on The Restaurant and we all got to see Rocco get nailed by this slim on national TV.

Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineARCJET From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3380 times:

West Coast, Bonanza, Pacific = Air West + Howard Hughes = Hughes Airwest
Southern + North Central = Republic
Republic purchases Hughes Airwest
Northwest purchases Republic


User currently offlineJdaniel001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3326 times:

Actually the entire aviation industry will merge into one mega carrier.

User currently offlineSkyexramper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3237 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Thread starter):
YX+AI?

AL it would be and that would be the offical Skyway code. That happened a long time ago! :P


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

1MILLIONFLYER..post 13
I didn't know Piedmont went Bankrupt. I thought US AIR bought them and merged them into their system. Are you sure about that?
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
25 Dutchjet : At this point in time, the major US carriers have enough of their own problems to consider and no airline is in the position to take on the problems a
26 Srbmod : The equation in a more understandable layout: USAir + Piedmont + PSA = US Airways filing for CH 11 twice in nearly as many years.
27 Post contains images SHUPirate1 : Oh, heaven forbid...now New York to Fort Lauderdale will go back to $1000 for a one way ticket...in all likelyhood, at least, that will include a fou
28 Post contains images Mariner : Might be good for JetBlue. It would do jacksh*t for Frontier, except destroy a perfectly good airline. cheers mariner
29 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : [Quoting COERJ145 (Thread starter): CO+DL[/quote] Probably the most logical combo of the legacies. [Quoting COERJ145 (Thread starter): AA+DL?[/quote]
30 SHUPirate1 : I don't believe I mentioned putting any 747's between Denver and New York-Kennedy anywhere in my comments, and I obviously don't like that idea.
31 PlanesNTrains : You conveniently ignored the smiley when quoting me - obviously, it was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the 80's - sorry if I implied something differ
32 FlyPIJets : I have to admit that I rather enjoy reading the threads on the possibilities for the future of airlines. Barring the rather heated defending of positi
33 Dartland : Any airline merging with a non-airline is even a worse idea than an airline merging with another airline -- and I mean no ill-will by that, just pure
34 FlyPIJets : That maybe true, but, in the example of GE, they have been successful with RCA which gives them a business line as varied as making aircraft engines
35 Wdlf1 : How about FL and AS buy 51% of UA take control and trim the fat go lowfare with the whole thing move the hdq to FL. Now that sounds like a winner!!!
36 Post contains links STT757 : CO+UAL with CO running the show, Corporate moving to Houston and Gordon Bethune arranging the financing (Boeing, GE etc..). http://archives.california
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