Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ Pt.2  
User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4537 posts, RR: 42
Posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 26299 times:

This thread is intended to follow on from Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ (by JetCaptain Aug 2 2005 in Civil Aviation)

There are a number of other threads about aspects of this issue. If your post would fit better in one of those threads, please use them. If it is more a general post, please use this one. Whichever you choose, please only make your post in one thread. For your information, these are the other active threads relating to aspects of this issue (I am pretty sure this covers them all):

Cancellations As A Result Of Air France Crash? (by Jmc1975 Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Congratulations Air France Crew (by Traveler Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

How Is Immigration Dealt In AF/YYZ Case? (by Venezuela747 Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

AF 358, A Crash Or A Simple Accident? (by A5XX Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

An Accident That We Can Learn Hard From! (by Palladium Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

The Airbus A340 Has An Excellent Safety Record... (by CV990 Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Air France Loss - Seating Arrangements (by Timmytour Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Have You Ever Seen A Crew In Action? (by FlyGuyClt Aug 3 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Anyway, please continue on the general discussion here.

Might I add my 2c and say that when I first heard of this news this morning, I thought that there was going to be a horrible loss of life. That everyone was able to get out is fantastic. There will be plenty of time to debate the causes in the future, but right now I think we should be thankful that there are over 300 people out there who could easily have been another aviation statistic, but instead are safe and sound. We can only hope that future aviation accidents may be able to have the same result...

V/F


"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
137 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCV580Freak From Bahrain, joined Jul 2005, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 26250 times:

560+ posts, 70,000 views to original thread, is this a A.Net record ?


One day you are the pigeon, the next the statue ...
User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2828 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 26253 times:

Glad about the new thread, the previous one caused my IE to crash...

One thing I noticed on one of the two pics here so far:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Lee Thomas



You can see on the nr1 engine that the thrust reversers were deployed, but I do not see any deployed spoiler... This could be due to the angle of photography, or loss of hyd pressure after the incident. But a total loss of control can probably be discounted if the thrust reversers can be seen.



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 26229 times:

I posted it in the other thread but it's been locked so...

Pics on the internet:










E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineAirEuropeUK733 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 975 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 26157 times:

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 2):
Glad about the new thread, the previous one caused my IE to crash...

And mine!! Glad everyone got out safe and sound and hats off to all the crew for doing a fantastic job

AE733



It's nice to fly with firends
User currently offlineAAMD11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1056 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 26119 times:

>> 560+ posts, 70,000 views to original thread, is this a A.Net record ?

I doubt that very much - I've a feeling a certain September 11th thread was bigger.


User currently offlineSTARalliance24 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 26106 times:

The people had to literally jump out of the plane!!! The where no slides ????

User currently offlineMatt27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 26058 times:

Quoting STARalliance24 (Reply 6):
The people had to literally jump out of the plane!!! The where no slides ????

It doesn't look like it


User currently offlineStall From Switzerland, joined Apr 2004, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 26028 times:

Very impressive pictures !!!

It seems the plane was burning before all passengers had evacuate the plane. It seems that the evacuation slides were not deployed, people had to jump from the doors/emergency exits. Is it a normal procedure or should the slides have been deployed ?

Anyway congrats to the cabin crew, they did a splendid job !!!!

 bigthumbsup 



Flying is fun
User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 25971 times:

Quoting STARalliance24 (Reply 6):
The where no slides ????

From studying the pictures posted by YUL332LX it looks like the front door is about 6-8' from the ground and the middle door about 10-12', so I think that the deployment of slides would probably have hindered the evacuation.

Just my 0.02c

[Edited 2005-08-03 16:52:44]


MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4537 posts, RR: 42
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 25965 times:

Quoting Stall (Reply 8):
It seems that the evacuation slides were not deployed, people had to jump from the doors/emergency exits. Is it a normal procedure or should the slides have been deployed ?


It looks to me like the 1L slide has deployed, so perhaps it is just a fault with the 2L one (the only other one which we'd expect to be visible in the photos posted by YUL332LX...)

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineGLA MD11 From France, joined Mar 2000, 277 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 25928 times:

Thx, I have tried all day to open the 550+ thread, without success... Too hard to download.
Impressive pictures!


User currently offlineBristolFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 25767 times:

Quoting STARalliance24 (Reply 6):
The people had to literally jump out of the plane!!! The where no slides ????

Huh, I was watching Fox news in Phoenix last night and they were going on about a Phoenix based company who made the slides, boasting about the local links.

BF



Fortune favours the brave
User currently offlineGBan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 25708 times:

Very interesting pictures, YUL332LX.

As a side note: I wouldn't have expected people to carry their bags in such a situation. I personally would rather leave my expensive notebook and camera behind and be happy to get out as fast as possible.


User currently offlineXJRamper From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2451 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 25657 times:

I have to hand it to the AF crew for getting everyone off safely. That's what the FA's are there to do, not just to serve you drinks. A job well done.  Smile

XJR



Look ma' no hands!
User currently offlineJush From Germany, joined Apr 2005, 1636 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 25630 times:

I still think of people who think about pictures in this situation... i would be paniced to get my ass out of that plane wouldn't think of taking pictures at all.
But very scary and i a way spectacular to see those pics...
Glad that everyone survived and only minor injuries.... It could have been a bad day for aviation....



There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
User currently offlineYUL332LX From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 820 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 25625 times:

JFYI,

The pictures I provided above are now loaded on airdisaster.com



E volavo, volavo felice più in alto del sole, e ancora più su mentre il mondo pian piano spariva lontano laggiù ...
User currently offlineSleekjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2045 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 25540 times:

Can someone give me some info about a KLM flight running low on fuel over Toronto after the crash?


II Cor. 4:17-18
User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1582 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 25466 times:

This is MY theory on the incident:

1.) The Aircraft was given clearance to land.
2.) A violent storm started just as when the Aircraft landed.
3.) The Aircraft started to Hydroplane, Reversers deployed but wheels where not in contact with the pavement.
4.) Brakes on wheels where applied, subsequently brakes overheated and started to smoke and fire.
5.) Aircraft starts swerving on the runway.
6.) Aircraft couldn't stop, overshot runway and fell in the ditch.
7.) Aircraft breaks in half due to falling in the ditch.
8.) Fire engulfed aircraft due to fire from the Landing gear.

That's my take on the accident.

Drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineOakmad From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 25412 times:

Just this report:

Quote:
Passengers told how the power on the jet went out about one minute before the landing and how they believed it was hit by lightning.

"I saw lightning," Mr Bramer said. "Maybe the plane had already been hit by lightning. The reason I'm mentioning that is because just as we landed, the lights turned off. And that's unusual. So I'm sure that the bad weather was responsible."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/we-thought-the-plane-would-blow-up/2005/08/03/1122748664261.html


User currently offlineFrequentflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 736 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 25410 times:

From cnn.com

Quote:
The evacuation of more than 300 people took less than two minutes, with a co-pilot the last to leave the flaming wreckage, airport Fire Chief Mike Figliola said.

Figliola said three-quarters of the passengers and crew aboard the plane left the wreckage in the 52 seconds it took for emergency crews to arrive.

"The crew did a great job. They're trained to get the people off," Figliola said

Wow Congratulations to AF Crew personnel, those guys saved hundreds that day



Take off and live
User currently offlineWhyWhyZed From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 914 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 25223 times:

WOW, what a day it was yesterday. I had to go to YYZ to drop my grandmother off. We left my hourse at 4:10 and picked her up. All along we thought it was just a normal day, besides the dark clouds towards Toronto. We hit Oakville and got a HUGE downpour, so we exited at Dorval and went to Timmy's. After a bit of a wait, we proceeded. Flying over the 427, we saw a darker streak in the sky, but it was scattered, So we just figured it was a low rain cloud.

Little did we know, when we T3 departures, emergency vehicles were everywhere. At this point the time was 5:30-5:45. We still proceeded, until we started to hear news within the terminal, that it was a 737, no other news at the time. She checked in, and she decided to just go past security and wait for the plane. At this point it was about 6:15.

I rushed out to try and get more info, since I still never knew the RWY at the time, then I headed out for a drive to find it.

Security, had everywhere covered. I was shocked. Places that I thought people never went...hehehehe. Even some business buildings had security in their parking lot. It was definitely being kept confidential. I can just imagine how pissed off the media was, you can see them walking around the whole half of the airport trying to find a shot.

All in all, Malev was diverted to YUL, and it arrived back at YYZ at midnight, and departed for BUD at 2:40AM

< /life story >

http://www.wwspotters.com/af340.jpg
http://www.wwspotters.com/af340.jpg
(My crappy attempt at trying to be the first with photos from the events...Look at the tire tracks going down the hill)

Anyone got ATC feeds??? I'm dieing to find some. ATClive has some stuff but I can't find anything with AF. I think they might have had to remove the AF part's since it goes quiet for a bit, quite often.

- Jason DePodesta

[Edited 2005-08-03 18:00:03]

User currently offlineScandinavian From Sweden, joined Sep 2000, 267 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 25135 times:

Incredible pictures! What can you say? Great work from the Air France crew, it´s hard to understand that no one died in this terrible crash.


"He was a wise man who invented beer"-Platon
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12041 posts, RR: 47
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 25130 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

You do have to wonder why the hell those people are taking their hand luggage with them.  crazy 


Hey AA, the 1960s called. They want their planes back!
User currently offlineSTARalliance24 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 25136 times:

[quote=WhyWhyZed,reply=21]WOW, what a day it was yesterday. I had to go to YYZ to drop my grandmother off. We left my hourse at 4:10 and picked her up. All along we thought it was just a normal day, besides the dark clouds towards Toronto. We hit Oakville and got a HUGE downpour, so we exited at Dorval and went to Timmy's. After a bit of a wait, we proceeded. Flying over the 427, we saw a darker streak in the sky, but it was scattered, So we just figured it was a low rain cloud.

Little did we know, when we T3 departures, emergency vehicles were everywhere. At this point the time was 5:30-5:45. We still proceeded, until we started to hear news within the terminal, that it was a 737, no other news at the time. She checked in, and she decided to just go past security and wait for the plane. At this point it was about 6:15.

I rushed out to try and get more info, since I still never knew the RWY at the time, then I headed out for a drive to find it.

Security, had everywhere covered. I was shocked. Places that I thought people never went...hehehehe. Even some business buildings had security in their parking lot. It was definitely being kept confidential. I can just imagine how pissed off the media was, you can see them walking around the whole half of the airport trying to find a shot.

All in all, Malev was diverted to YUL, and it arrived back at YYZ at midnight, and departed for BUD at 2:40AM




http://www.airliners.net/procphotos/rejphoto.main?filename=af340.jpg
(My crappy attempt at trying to be the first with photos from the events)

Anyone got ATC feeds??? I'm dieing to find some. ATClive has some stuff but I can't find anything with AF. I think they might have had to remove the AF part's since it goes quiet for a bit, quite often.

What a day indeed.


25 Artsyman : Slides are actually very flamable, and are not meant to be deployed close to fire. While I have no idea if this is the reason for 2L not to be deploy
26 Vzlet : Maybe the extra engines caused control problems. From CP, via Yahoo: "The Airbus A-340's twin tail-mounted engines had just started to burn when Figio
27 Starlionblue : I'm pretty sure the 340 reversers are locked if the wheels aren't on the ground. IIRC it went to Syracuse. No drama.
28 Post contains links Scbriml : Good video report on BBC's News home page http://news.bbc.co.uk/
29 Sabena332 : I was wondering about the same when I saw the pictures. I would definitely leave my carry-on luggage behind to get out as fast as possible and to occ
30 Matt : YUL332LX, where are the pictures from?
31 Post contains images Starlionblue : The pics were taken by pax with cellphones. So how long will it take until they paint over the titles? Should be today I would think.
32 SNBru : I could be wrong, but as far as I heard, the aircraft didn't break. You can see it on the pictures. The aircraft broke after the fire started over th
33 Starlionblue : From cnn.com. "John McDougall, deputy chief of the Mississauga Fire Department, said that when the first fire crew reached the plane about 52 seconds
34 Zsx81 : Really makes you wonder if people really think about all the reponsibility when they say yes to "Will you be willing and able to assist in case of an
35 Baw716 : They say a picture tells a thousand words... This is certainly true in this case: 1) The 1L slide is deployed, but does not appear to be completely in
36 BestWestern : I was thinking of potential static from cell phone (from the cameras) and aviation fuel vapors. Its a well known fact that many people try and take th
37 Mikephotos : Looking at the pic taken by WhyWhyZed, you can pretty much say with an Arrestor Bed system this wouldn't have been so bad (for the aircraft). It's goo
38 Starlionblue : Well the fuel was already burning so... In any case this is no biggie unless you're standing in the tank. Contrary to popular belief, jet fuel is not
39 Smcmac32msn : "The Airbus A-340's twin tail-mounted engines had just started to burn when Figiola arrived on the scene less than a minute after the crash." Another
40 Milan320 : Has YYZ installed any protective measures for aircraft that overshoot the runway? I believe one is called EMAS (Engineered Material Arresting System).
41 Starlionblue : Since these systems requires prepositioning it would not have been beneficial. Nobody (probably including the pilots) knew anything was going to go w
42 Post contains images Midway2AirTran : Now that it appears that everyone on board is safe, the only thing tragic in this case is the loss of a nice aircraft. Still sad to see.. Looking at t
43 Mikephotos : As I mentioned above, yes I believe it would have made a huge difference as it appears the wheels were on the ground as the aircraft left the end of
44 Post contains links Milan320 : Thanks for the info. I thought that perhaps there's a permanent solution that can be installed at the end of runways for such occurances. try the arc
45 Mikephotos : I think he was referring to foaming the runway which of course would require notice in advance that there is a problem. We are talking about the perm
46 Milan320 : So what prompted JFK to put in the permanent solution then?' Wonder if it will take two such cases for the GTAA to finally decide on an extra safety
47 Starlionblue : Ok we are talking about different things. - Foaming - requires advance warning. - Overrun bed at end of runway - "always on". - Net to catch aircraft
48 Post contains links PHLapproach : Dave (owner of liveatc.net) wants people to use these archives: http://dl.liveatc.net/CYYZ-Toronto-Aug-02-05-1530.mp3 http://dl.liveatc.net/CYYZ-Toron
49 Milan320 : That's the one I'm talking about. /Milan320
50 David L : I'm glad everyone seems to have got out of the original thread unscathed. 52 seconds? They should be there immediately![Edited 2005-08-03 20:01:20]
51 Post contains links and images Mikephotos : From the EMAS website "Runway 04R could not achieve a 1,000 foot long safety area, due to Thurston Basin being 550 feet from the runway end. Since th
52 Post contains images Starlionblue : Time to start using FireFox But even with FF the load times were painful. Are you for real? With no advance warning there is no way they would get th
53 Trex8 : wy does every website I have checked say the AF A343 only carries 272 passengers??? was this plane a non standard cabin configuration??
54 Starlionblue : I think it was. And most airlines have several configs on long haul.
55 David L : How's this: 52 seconds? They should have been there immediately. (By the way, I was being sarcastic, for anyone who didn't notice).
56 Post contains images Starlionblue : Ok, that makes sense. Sorry my sarcasm detector needs calibrating
57 Post contains links Hannigan : Here's a different view I took of an Air France A340. It's too bad you can't identify the reg. It may very well be our unfortunate aircraft... http://
58 Mikephotos : Seems to have been used a lot on the SXM run so I'd say it was a special configuration which included more coach seats to "pack'em in" for the Caribb
59 Post contains images David L : Starlionblue: It was a bit "open to interpretation" by some but I'd have thought you'd have known by now how seriously to take anything I say.
60 Thenoflyzone : Correction based on my previous post: BAW93 which diverted to YOW yesterday will be flying back to YYZ this evening and did not make it to YYZ yesterd
61 Lnglive1011yyz : Listening to the ATC archives made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. It's almost 24 hours since the accident, and I'm still in a feeling of sh
62 Thenoflyzone : Correction based on my previous post: BAW93 which diverted to YOW yesterday will be flying back to YYZ this evening and did not make it to YYZ yesterd
63 Starlionblue : Lol. Sorry the media has jaded me. The sheer lack of logic on the part of some newspeople is mindboggling.
64 Tom_EDDF : There was some discussion in the other thread whether they might have been using automatic landing (CAT III/IIIb) and how this might relate to the acc
65 Starlionblue : I got the impression from a post on the earlier thread that conditions were not CAT III.
66 AMSSFO : I am glad that everyone survived. Hopefully people will get over this very bad experience quickly. How does it work? Is it filled with sand?
67 Jush : Didn't sound sarcastic to me... but maybe i'm missing that little touch called feeling for that... But back to the facts... 52 seconds i guess is rat
68 Starlionblue : I think it's gravel but I'm not sure. Just like F1 gravel beds. Basically high friction but not high enough to snap the gear.
69 ScarletHarlot : I do. I sat in the exit row on Monday as we flew YYZ - MSP - SEA. Mr. Harlot and I both reviewed the exit card (making fun of the funny graphics) and
70 Hrhf1 : Can anyone tell me why they use the shorter 24L for landings in poor conditions when 24R would afford much more room for all aircraft to decrease spee
71 Post contains links Mikephotos : ...it states "cellular cement material" http://www.esco-usa.com/com/fact.html Mike
72 Jush : back to that streaming... what about the AFR transmissions? Nothing at all are they deleted? Because it's normal approach for half an hour for all air
73 Boeing7E7 : Yes it would have. A 600' bed would have stopped the aircraft at the given speen fully loaded, meaning MTOW. ICAO doesn't push the issue. They have p
74 Post contains images Drinkstrolley : I would have drunk mine before the plane had stopped moving!
75 Glidepath73 : All RWY ends shout be shaped straight, with NO bumps, and NO ravines. Even the LH A320 crash 1993 in Warsaw could have been avoided if this little hil
76 Post contains links Boeing7E7 : http://www.esco-usa.com/com/fact.html
77 ManuCH : If I understand this correctly, the streaming we're talking about (the one from LiveATC.net) is the Toronto Approach frequency, not Toronto Tower. At
78 GuyBetsy1 : Gosh. Imagine if this have been at HKG's KAI TAK airport. Straight into the water.
79 Post contains images Buyantukhaa : LOL. My pun was unintentional, sorry
80 EMBQA : Looking at the pictures in reply 3.. Where are the slides...?? The L1 Slides is deployed, but not inflated, the L2 slides is still retracted...?
81 Milan320 : Thanks for taking the time to find those pics and for the answers. Cheers! /MIlan320
82 Bongo : I know it is a really stupid question, but yesterday when we (my kid, 7 years old and I) were watching the horrendous disaster on CNN..He asked me wha
83 Starlionblue : Not stupid at all. If they burn, they burn. If they don't they will first be examined as part of the investigation and finally be released back to th
84 Post contains images David L : Actually, I was going to say that anyway but you provided a good quote for me to pounce on! I was thinking of the chaos as we all tried to get in, po
85 Post contains images Frequentflyer : Drinkstrolley: That's why you should always buy a bottle before flying international!!
86 Post contains images Boeing744 : I was in the air when this occured. LH flight 493 YVR-FRA. I am sure that the pilots got word of this while flying, but wisely chose not to mention it
87 Lnglive1011yyz : They don't normally, which is weird. Even in *Great* weather conditions, they tend to use 24R. Depends on numerous factors -- condition of 24R at the
88 B707Stu : A) I'm not a pilot. B) Heavy Thunderstorms and rain, whenever I've flown means diversion if airborne or you're not going anywhere if on the ground. Wh
89 Post contains images Starlionblue : Well, so could all crashes
90 Scbriml : The report on this evening's 10.00pm BBC news clearly stated that this was the A340s second attempt to land. Any other reports stating this?
91 Post contains images B707Stu : Excellent, I'm glad you're catching on!
92 B707Stu : It'll be interesting to see what the report says about the shoots. Clearly they, at the minimum, weren't deployed fully because of the lack of height
93 YUL332LX : Radio-Canada just broadcasted several pictures shot onboard AF 358 after the accident. Still trying to have the pics online.[Edited 2005-08-04 00:28:3
94 Post contains links YUL332LX : Here's the link to the pictures: http://radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/act...03/001-Miracle-Avion-Toronto.shtml The presentation is in French.
95 David L : I agree to a certain extent but dealing with a real emergency is not something they get the opportunity to do routinely. I think they're due a bit mo
96 Post contains links and images LorM : Listening to the archives on liveatc.net the ILS for 24L was clearly in use and from the approach controllers (which you hear on the archives not towe
97 Usnseallt82 : The flight data recorders were just found from the wreckage. Hopefully some answers will come soon. Cheers!
98 Alberchico : Couldn't they get all their info just by interviewing the pilots?
99 STARalliance24 : Maybe the pilots didn't know what happened exactly.
100 Post contains images F9fan : First thought, it is a miracle anyone got out of that plane alive, let alone everyone. Major kudos to the AF crew. They did their jobs very well, and
101 Blackbird1 : The flight data recorder will answer all questions. Below please find the hourly METAR, very interesting concerning the dramatic change in wind direct
102 Bobster2 : My theory: Tires punctured by FOD on runway, combination of blown tires and wet runway leads to overrun, fire caused by tire fragments opening the fue
103 YOWguy : Saw this big bird leave this evening back to YYZ. BA pilot thanked the tower for the courtesy that was extended to them.
104 Post contains images Msl747 : Here are some pictures of the aftermath from AirDisaster.com: -Msl747
105 Olympus69 : I was watching the approach of Flight 358 and did not see any lightning in the vicinity of the plane. I had it in sight from the time it switched to
106 ManuCH : Try to download using another browser. I had the same problem here and ended downloading the files using Linux' "wget" because Mozilla Firefox would
107 EZEIZA : Watching all those pics still makes mw wonder how on earth was everyone able to get out of that virtually uharmed!
108 Post contains links NAV20 : One thing I'd appreciate some guidance on. According to this press story, the First Officer was doing the flying, and was also the last to leave. "Off
109 CV747 : I hear these accusations on the crew should have diverted. Well its always easy to say afterwards. What I am missing a bit is runway conditions. Which
110 Drinkstrolley : Will people stop praising the AF Crew until there is some hard factual evidence, what if it is conclusively proven that the flight deck crew made a c
111 PADSpot : Since above pictures show that reversers were deployed, there must have been enough weight on the wheels. Reminds me of a crash of a LH A320 at WAW i
112 FlySSC : Brinkstrolley, I think that most of the "congratulations" until now are for the Cabin Crew ... not the pilots. Who/what ever is respondible for this a
113 BoogyJay : I don't know about the landing itself, IF there has been a 1st attempt, maybe the Captain performed the 1st one and then decided to leave the 2nd one
114 BHXFAOTIPYYC : Actually CO didn't do it the first time assuming you are referring to the Concorde crash. Bizarrely enough I was watching a documentary on Portuguese
115 Post contains links AvroArrow : Just to add on tot his thread, I couldn't find this already but I might have missed it. The CBC has a special crash analysis page. http://www.cbc.ca/n
116 Post contains images ZKSUJ : Computer crashed trying to open the last thread. Congrats to the AF cabin crew and the FO who did a final sweep of the cabin to make sure everyone was
117 Post contains links Vunz : When you look at Google maps at JFK http://maps.google.com/maps?q=jfk&ll...80&spn=0.006133,0.011161&t=k&hl=en you get the impression that there actua
118 AirGabon : The Pilot is seriously injured, he's still in hospital, according to press reports he has been injured at his backbone.
119 Timmytour : Does anyone know if there's somewhere providing a breakdown of the nationalities of the passengers on board?
120 FlySSC : 104 Canadian citizens 101 French 19 Italian 14 U.S 8 Indians 7 British Don't know for the rest of the PAX ....
121 Andie007 : + 4 German
122 Starlionblue : As has been said, as far as we know now there was nothing to indicate it would be an emergency landing until the plane was landing.
123 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Would you seriously trust your entire investigation to two people who just endured this accident? Especially if there was an electrical failure or so
124 Post contains links Mdundon : Aerial visuals (RealPlayer streaming video) of the charred hull can be seen on the National Post's website: www.nationalpost.com Regards, Michael
125 Milan320 : Arrgh, I can't find the link now, but it was on the CBC website giving the career statistics of both the Capt. and the FO, and I believe actually the
126 Post contains images ACdreamliner : Finally my first say on this sad subject. I would like to start by saying a huge well done to the AF crew. Very respectable of the FO to stay with his
127 Mikephotos : Your get the impression because it is a plane in the arrestor bed. It's the Gemini MD-11 incident. Mike
128 Jush : Your correct with this one. I just missed the transmission where the AF left the frequency... Planes are usually handed over to Tower when estblished
129 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Me too! If anyone could find the tower audio please post it because I would love to hear it! I've gone through the approach audio several times alread
130 Gogodude : The passenger may have been hearing the normal idling of the engines during the flare, instead of them "losing power."
131 Kaitak : I don't know if you've seen a diagram of the aircraft's track on arrival; basically, the aircraft seemed to be well to the right of the runway, then t
132 Post contains links KDTWFlyer : http://dl.liveatc.net/CYYZ-Toronto-Aug-02-05-1600.mp3 You can hear some people yelling in the background at 2:42-3:40. Also KLM inquring about the cra
133 Starlionblue : Indeed. Trained observers are better than untrained, but nothing beats "hard" data. The brain is amazingly good at manufacturing memories. For sure,
134 B707Stu : Whether you're right or wrong, you've just earned my respect as putting together what's known in the most rational way. Thank You. I agree with your
135 Finkenwerder : Some comments 1. Spoliers not deployed hypothesis Weight on wheels is all it takes as long as they are armed. 3 hydraulic systems all capable of deplo
136 Starlionblue : While your hypothesis sounds plausible, passenger accounts are notoriously unreliable. Untrained observers will create memories to fit their manufact
137 Finkenwerder : I concur, highly unlikely to have lost any power let alone all. The loss of lighting in the cabin could be due to a few cb's popping nothing more.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Air France A340 Off Runway In YYZ posted Tue Aug 2 2005 22:10:37 by JetCaptain
First Air 727 Skids Off Runway In YFB posted Mon Sep 25 2000 22:22:58 by XNV
Russian Plane Skids Off Runway In Indonesia posted Mon Nov 13 2006 22:22:44 by Fleitao
Air France A320 And B737 In Martinique? posted Mon Aug 21 2006 20:15:29 by Speedmarque
Fedex Plane Skids Off Runway In SDF posted Thu Jul 27 2006 16:37:00 by Geg2rap
Plane Skids Off Runway In Ghana posted Tue Jul 4 2006 15:45:07 by Soups
Air France Flt. 8 June 1 Emergency In PHL? posted Fri Jun 2 2006 03:38:53 by PHLstudent
Air Jamaica A340 Off Taxiway At LHR posted Tue Mar 7 2006 00:49:21 by Breiz
S7 (Sibir) Jet Skidds Off Runway In MUC posted Sat Mar 4 2006 22:59:36 by A342
Private Jet Crashes Off Runway In Carlsbad Near SD posted Tue Jan 24 2006 16:47:11 by PanAm747