KL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1573 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3229 times:
This is probably bad news for RAM and good news for Boeing.
Ie, no heavy discounting here.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5160 posts, RR: 49 Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3222 times:
FCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2347 posts, RR: 4 Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3022 times:
As i already mentionned in a previous thread some weeks ago , this one will be for Boeing with the 787.
Boeing has already reserved slots for RAM , for delivery beginning in 2008 , in order to get this order , as RAM is considered by the Wichita manufacturer as a prestige African airline.
No way here for Airbus to place A350 as they can't deliver the planes before 2010-2012.No surprise Airbus will not make any tenders.
Once some years ago , RAM was very closed to place an A330 order to replace the Gecas leased 767s , but this plan failed to materialise.This was the last chance for Airbus to place wide bodies at RAM.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5160 posts, RR: 49 Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3014 times:
Airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6884 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2987 times:
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5160 posts, RR: 49 Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2985 times:
BCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2894 times:
No.. lets get this very clear. Chicago is where World Headquarters is, THAT'S IT! The manufacture/final assembly is in Washington! I am so damn sick of hearing Boeing referred to as a "Chicago company". They relocated WHQ there for tax purposes only. At our soul, we will always be a Seattle company through and through! *end rant*
Searpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 12 Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2847 times:
With the recent sale of the Ontario division, is there any significant Boeing Commercial Aircraft production that doesn't take place in the Puget Sound? (I'm not talking about subcontract assemblies).
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
RedFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4181 posts, RR: 30 Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2819 times:
Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 7): They relocated WHQ there for tax purposes only.
I thought the real reason for relocating was because that jacka** Condit who was running the company at the time was trying to place WHQ closer to the East Coast, where a lot of political lobbying occurs and that Chicago won the competition because of the tax breaks it eventually offered. While Boeing may have complained about the heavy tax costs associated with the Seattle area, it was in the end a ruse (among many) to move WHQ because Seattle did offer concessions to get them to stay.
In any event, I digress from the topic at hand, but only because my blood boils when I think of how that moron Condit ran the company for over ten years.
Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 7): At our soul, we will always be a Seattle company through and through! *end rant*
Seattle will ALWAYS be the soul Boeing and I hope someday Boeing takes it's WHQ back there.
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5160 posts, RR: 49 Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2772 times:
So how many 787s will RAM order and what type? Like I said Boeing has this one in the bag.
KennyK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 478 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2640 times:
I'm surprised Airbus didn't put in for this contract if for no other reason to have a dig at Boeing by perhaps enabling RAM to get a better price for 787s, it's not as if Airbus doesn't have a good product, the A332, maybe I'm being a bit cynical.
Ruscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1408 posts, RR: 2 Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2561 times:
Quoting KennyK (Reply 12): I'm surprised Airbus didn't put in for this contract if for no other reason to have a dig at Boeing by perhaps enabling RAM to get a better price for 787s,
I'd reckon that Airbus has already gone as low as it can, and forced Boeing down already. The cynic in me says that the Airbus Sales Manager leaked this to reporters as a last ditch attempt, to upset the Boeing deal by embarrassment.
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22723 posts, RR: 88 Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2515 times:
Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 14): The cynic in me says that the Airbus Sales Manager leaked this to reporters as a last ditch attempt, to upset the Boeing deal by embarrassment.
Yes, indeed, that is extraordinarily cynical.
It is also entirely possible that Airbus got wind oif which way it would swing and saw no point in pursuing it.
You may recall that something similar happened with Spirit, when Boeing declined to tender. This decision was released to the press - by Boeing. No one "leaked" anything.
The Spirit order went to Airbus as a foregone conclusion.
What this present Moroccan sitaution does do, of course, is give the lie to the concept of Airbus giving away their aircraft to practically anyone at rock bottom prices.
Georgiabill From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 544 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2495 times:
Great news for both Boeing and RAM. Just curious on which routes will RAM use their 787's? Also does anyone know if Oman Air is still considering the 787?
Georgiabill From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 544 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2371 times:
Thanks FCKC. Any chance of Ram looking towards expanding to India,China or West Coast of USA?
Beauing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2184 times:
Quote: Airbus will not participate in a tender
by Morocco's flagship carrier Royal Air Maroc (RAM) to buy four long-haul
aircraft, leaving the $790 million deal to U.S. rival Boeing.
RAM is seeking four new model long-haul jets to replace its 757 and 767 Boeing
aircraft. Boeing proposed its 787 Dreamliner and Airbus put forward its A350.
"It's with regret that we withdraw our bid for this RAM deal," David
Dufrenois, Airbus sales manager for Morocco.The terms of this tender are not
clear and bid deadlines are too short," he added.
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22723 posts, RR: 88 Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2147 times:
Quoting Beauing (Reply 19): So Airbus didn't bid because "the fix was in?" Must be politics.
How very suspicious.
I doubt it is anything to do with "a fix". I doubt it is anything to do with politics.
How "political" was the Spirit deal and Boeing's decline to tender?
It's just one of those things. RAM has a Boeing fleet, and a long history with Boeing. I would imagine Airbus are quite smart enough to see which way the wind is blowing.
Why waste time - and resources - on battles you can't win?
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22723 posts, RR: 88 Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2071 times:
Quoting Beauing (Reply 21): That's what the "fix is in" means.
Okay, if you say so. American friends have always told me that it means an underhand or devious pact - a secret collusion - but if you didn't mean that, that's fine, too.
HZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1971 times:
Quoting Mariner (Reply 22): Okay, if you say so. American friends have always told me that it means an underhand or devious pact - a secret collusion - but if you didn't mean that, that's fine, too.
I still don't see why it would be political.
cheers
mariner
"the fix was in" does have an underhanded meaning. Typically, stated in reference to a trial with a paid off judge, or a game with a paid off referree.
I would say that the order was small enough that Airbus thought "why give a sh!t"...
"RAM's board decided to start talks with Boeing soon after the withdrawal of Airbus from our tender," a RAM senior official said
"The talks will be for four long-haul aircraft with the possibility of buying a fifth plane," the official said.
"We are looking at the 787 Dreamliner which offers major advantages to our company," he added
Airbus were given the chance it would appear;
Airbus (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile, Research) (BA.L: Quote, Profile, Research) failed to make a bid by the July 15 deadline, which RAM had postponed twice upon demand from the European plane maker, RAM has said.
"We ended up with one bid on our table from Boeing," the official added
RAM postponed the RFP twice for Airbus, that could mean anything but if Airbus could garner the orders they did for the A350 at Le Bourget surely they could have laid a solid offer on the table for RAM too, no?
Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
25 YYZ4RADD: dont forget one of the VP's of Boeing is a highly connected Moroccan His name is Siddik Belyamani...... One of the many reasons RAM is quite pro-Boein
26 Beauing: Thanks, this was the type of information I was looking for. It sounds like the fix was in and it's political.
27 NYC777: True but it was in the bag that AC ordered Boeing over Airbus...the pilots just f**ked it up for them.
28 Mariner: The morality of that doesn't bother you? Didn't Boeing get into a lot of trouble with tankers over "connected friends"? I doubt it, but you seem dete
29 Beauing: From your description it sounds like RAM had already decided on Boeing was just going through the motions with the tender. Does that sound like a fre
30 FCKC: Georgiabill I don't think RAM will ever fly to India , China or US West Coast , as trafic is not there.They have no intention to get a greater network
31 Mariner: Free and fair competition? I would imagine that if Continental or Delta or Amercan were looking for a new aircraft it would be a waste of time for Ai
32 Beauing: American has already purchased from Airbus. There's nothing political about nationalism?
33 Bambicruz: Im not sure if I agree on that one, since September 2004, RAM has opened 11 new destinations + later this year/early 2006 they are going to open new
34 Vfw614: Wouldn't it make sense to compete just for the sake of driving down the competitor's profit margin ? It certainly makes more sense to hurt Boeing tha
35 Mariner: Yes, they did. You think they will do so again? Their pilots have already demanded that the aircraft be removed from the fleet. Not in the pure sense
36 Mariner: I would suspect that the order is simply not large enough to bother. List price for the 787 is (from memory) about $130,000 which is not high. Appara
37 Beauing: Do you have a source for this? Do you have a source for this?
38 BCAInfoSys: Mariner is full of shite. I am a Boeing employee. I have personally read through the contracts with ANA. And I can guarantee you that his numbers are
39 B744F: You're an IT tech, what do you know about their business and finances?
40 Mariner: The 787-8 variant was priced at a list price of $120 million per aircraft, surprising the industry, which was expecting a much higher price tag. Laun
41 LOT767-300ER: Yes, but the HQ i in Chicago and every damn PR newswire that Boeing releases is from Chicago, not from Washington State. Sorry
42 Mariner: Not a problem, I am not offended. I was as surprised as anyone when I saw that article about the 50% discount. Since 40% is the usual LCD, I assume t
43 N328KF: Indeed, as well as BCAInfoSys is neglecting the fact that Boeing is a company with two major divisions, and the other division really has very little
44 BCAInfoSys: OK B744F.. I'm not an IT tech. I work in IT, but I'm in Information Security. I'm not a tech installing harddrives and whatever, I work on security po
45 BCAInfoSys: N328KF puts it nicely. There is some IDS (Integrated Defense Systems) prescence here, but the majority of it (and Phantom Works for that matter) are i
46 Mariner: Note that I said "Apparently", "rumored" and "if it is true". cheers mariner
47 BCAInfoSys: That's ok Mariner. I understand completely. I just wanted to make sure I was very clear. Not to mention B744F trying to call me out.. just had to make
48 Mariner: I suggest that "full of shite" makes it fairly clear. British English is my first language. cheers mariner
49 BCAInfoSys: You're right.. I spoke a little forcefully. I am just so tired of armchair-CEOs and posers here that try to come across as omniscient. You seem to to
50 N60659: With all due respect sir, before you make such a comment, you may want to: (a) Use the search function and look at his other contributions. BCAInfoSy
51 Mariner: As I said, not a problem, I am not offended. It's very early here in new Zealand, and our little exchange was as good as a cup of strong coffee to wa
52 BCAInfoSys: As do I.. but I hope you're not talking about the Fox News version of "fair and balanced." Steve
53 Mariner: Look where I live - we don't have Fox news. But we do have Mr. Murdoch's other little enterprise, Sky. cheers mariner
54 FCKC: Bambicruz When i wrote RAM doesn't want to get a greater network , i forgot to precise in the long haul run.Of course their network is growing , but a
55 Backfire: Here you go: Air Transport Intelligence reporting that Royal Air Maroc is to sign for four Boeing 787s plus a single option.
56 Beauing: You did not! This is what you said: You didn't qualify it as a "rumor" until after you were called on it.
57 Mariner: Hmm? Which part of the word "Apparently" do you not understand? cheers mariner[Edited 2005-08-09 23:19:32]
58 BCAInfoSys: OK Beauing, I think you got your wires crossed there. The first qoute is from Mariner, not me. And it's in Reply 46, not Reply 45. And in his defense,
59 Beauing: Doesn't change the fact that you didn't qualify it as a "rumor" until after you were called on it.
60 Mariner: Then we speak a different language. In my understanding of English, the use of the word "apparently" does not mean "I know for a fact..", it means "o
61 BCAInfoSys: Well I don't know what others are saying; but they're wrong. I rarely make such definitive statements, but they're wrong. I just pulled up a copy of
62 Mariner: What I think is irrelevant. I assume they are getting the standard 40% LCD, and, as I said, given the one third Japanese component of the 787, a grea
63 Beauing: In my understanding of English "apparently" does not mean "rumor."
64 Beauing: Quoting Mariner (Reply 35): Their pilots have already demanded that the aircraft be removed from the fleet. Another misrepresentation. The source you
65 Mariner: Since you have previously called me a liar and now an obfuscator and a distorter, there seems little point in my responding. Believe what you will. B
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