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When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?  
User currently offlineFpofllflyboi From Bahamas, joined Jun 2005, 234 posts, RR: 1
Posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6594 times:

Is there a certain life span that a 732 has before it should be scrapped? Is about 25 years cutting it close? Or does it depend on how many hours or cycles flown and the amount of stress placed on the fuselage during flight at certain altitude?

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6585 times:

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Thread starter):
When Is It Time For A 732 To Retire?

When the airline who operates them decides to retire them.

Patrick


User currently offlineA3204eva From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 1060 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6580 times:

An aircraft's life span is set to so many landings. After this number has been reached, the operator can then decide whether they want to 'fix' it so more cycles are added to it's life span. If they don't, then off to scrap  Wink

I'm not sure about any other airlines, but Ryanair has planned to get rid of all their 732s by thee end of 2005



"They have lady pilots......... they're not that good, but they have 'em"
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6493 times:

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Thread starter):

When a 732 can no longer make money, it will be retired, and for some that won't happen for a good long time.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6483 times:

In the case of Delta, not for a lonnng time.  Wink

User currently offlineHKGKaiTak From Australia, joined Jun 2005, 1050 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6451 times:

Ask Paul Stoddart, he's starting a new airline with a fleet of 732s . . .


4 Engines 4 LongHaul
User currently offlineCORULEZ05 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6391 times:

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 1):
When the airline who operates them decides to retire them.

Aren't there specific regulations or limits on the amount of flight hours a plane can have on its record?

Seems to me like the "oldy hogs" are NW (not the 732 I know) and DL. The real question here is: is it cheaper to keep these old planes in their fleet even with all the maintenance they require or is it just better to replace them?

As for the 732 retirement, as long as the airline is keeping up with maintenance and regular check ups, it really shouldn't be a problem. I personally think that once a plane starts to show age, it is time to get it go because it hurts the image of the airline.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6370 times:

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 6):
I personally think that once a plane starts to show age, it is time to get it go because it hurts the image of the airline.

Exactly how many airlines follow your criteria?



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineDLKAPA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6369 times:

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 6):
Seems to me like the "oldy hogs" are NW (not the 732 I know) and DL. The real question here is: is it cheaper to keep these old planes in their fleet even with all the maintenance they require or is it just better to replace them?

Lets see, Maintenance or lease fees AND maintenance...


User currently offlineINTENSS From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 317 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6280 times:

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Thread starter):
Is there a certain life span that a 732 has before it should be scrapped? Is about 25 years cutting it close? Or does it depend on how many hours or cycles flown and the amount of stress placed on the fuselage during flight at certain altitude?

Simple answer: When the operator deems it is economically viable to do so.

-Rich


User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8463 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6259 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

SAA retired their 732s in June this year, they were in the fleet since the mid 60s (not sure if the same ones) but they were reliable workhorses to the end.


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineRobert1177 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6054 times:

This is a stupid question but what do you mean by cycles?????
I would love to know.
R


User currently offlineBjones From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6035 times:

Alaska is getting rid of their 737-200's which are all QCs and replacing them with 737-400 combis over the next couple years(they will be modified 737-400's that are already in their fleet). I think the first 400 comes on line by the end of this year. The downside is these will have a fixed bulkhead instead of the old movable one (oh and no gravel kit). The upside is that they can haul more load and are much cheaper to operate. AS had decided that it has reached the point where the 200 is too expensive to operate and there are better alternatives.

User currently offlineSlashd0t From Canada, joined Dec 2002, 221 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5948 times:

I know WestJet's 732',s should be all gone by 2006 based on economical reasons. With fuels costs as high as they are and the amount they consume plus high maintenance to keep them going, it just doesn't make sense to keep them anymore. On with the 600/700 & 800's Big grin


/.
User currently offlineSATL382G From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5926 times:

Quoting Robert1177 (Reply 11):
but what do you mean by cycles?????

A takeoff, followed by climb to cruise altitude and pressurization, then descent, depressurization, and landing is considered one cycle. Cycles are considered a better measure of usage for short haul aircraft.


User currently offlineLitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1788 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5870 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting CORULEZ05 (Reply 6):
Seems to me like the "oldy hogs" are NW (not the 732 I know) and DL. The real question here is: is it cheaper to keep these old planes in their fleet even with all the maintenance they require or is it just better to replace them?

Well NW and its DC9s are a whole 'nother (and frequently recurring) thread ...

But DL and its 732s are another story - yes they have quite a few old 732 and 733 aircraft, but a LOT of them are on lease ... and they are not renewing those leases when they expire.

This is for two very good monetary reasons : 1) they are LEASED (and that lease is *expensive*) and 2) those older technology engines are gas guzzlers.

Planes they *own* outright, they are keeping.

As someone else pointed out, it's a simple question of maintnance costs vs lease+maintnance costs.

Without that lease, older planes are even today FAR cheaper to operation even with their expensive maintnance and fuel costs ...

It's like paying off your car loan ... you don't go run out and buy a shiny new one ... you drive the paid off vehicle 'til the wheels fall off. All the while enjoying NOT paying that $350/mo to the bank.

As long as a 732/733 can be operated reliably and more cheaply than a newer alternative, any airline with a decent bean counter is gonna keep on doing so.

That's why you see so many DC9s flying for NW : they own 'em all outright, and because they do so, it's cheaper for them to run 'em than buy new planes to replace 'em with.

- litz


User currently offlineATA L1011 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1392 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5749 times:

Well litz the -300's are much more economical than the -200's and are still very effecient fuel wise. Although some of them are maintenace nightmares in DL's fleet!


Treat others as you expect to be treated!
User currently offlineFpofllflyboi From Bahamas, joined Jun 2005, 234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5659 times:

Quoting Robert1177 (Reply 11):
This is a stupid question but what do you mean by cycles?????



Quoting SATL382G (Reply 14):
Quoting Robert1177 (Reply 11):
but what do you mean by cycles?????

A takeoff, followed by climb to cruise altitude and pressurization, then descent, depressurization, and landing is considered one cycle. Cycles are considered a better measure of usage for short haul aircraft.

Thank you SATL382G, for responding to Roberts "stupid" question.

Robert, you've been educated!


User currently offlineIlgrancapo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5580 times:

Quoting A3204eva (Reply 2):
I'm not sure about any other airlines, but Ryanair has planned to get rid of all their 732s by thee end of 2005

Ryanair has retired all it´s 737-200 in june 2005 and has tranferred it to Autodirect for scrapping it.

More about it. New airlines in Indonesia (Batavia Air,Bouraq Indonesia Airlines, Jatayu Airlines, Mandala Airlines, Merpati Nusantara, RPX Airlines, Sriwijaya Air, Xpress Air) are acquiring recently (2003, 2004, 2005) Boeing 737-200 to use it in intercities flights. I believe that with a great maintenance, this aircraft could flight about 15 years?


User currently offlineDrinkstrolley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5436 times:

Where's European Jimmi? He'll tell you all about the Ryanair 732s!!!

User currently offlineFlydubai From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5401 times:

It all depends on when it was brought into service. I think that the 732 should have a lifespan of 12 to 16 years, having said that no major airline should still have them in their fleet. All major airlines should update their fleet every ten years.

Hamz..


User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5386 times:

I remember when all the legacies started dumping their -200s. I would have thought that Southwest would be the last carrier to dump them since they are an LCC. Delta ends up being the last -- strangely, having retrieved their -200s from their low-cost subdivision. Who would'a thunk it?


redngold
(who misses USAirways' MetroJet)



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineLiedetectors From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 5330 times:

a plane is retired when cost exceeds profits earned when operating the airplane.


If it was said by us, then it must be true.
User currently offlineMorvious From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 707 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 5321 times:

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 5):
Ask Paul Stoddart, he's starting a new airline with a fleet of 732s . . .

Just as bad as his F1 team? No chance I am flying it  Smile

Quoting Fpofllflyboi (Reply 17):
Thank you SATL382G, for responding to Roberts "stupid" question.

There aren't stupid questions, only stupid answers.
Atleast I did learn something from it!



have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5599 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (9 years 4 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5238 times:

Quoting Redngold (Reply 21):
Delta ends up being the last -- strangely

DAL does tend to keep aircraft types in their active fleet longer than other airlines do. I'm thinking of CV-880, DC-8, and 727.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
25 HAWK21M : When it gets Economically Difficult to Maintain.An Aircraft out of a Major check is almost as good as it can get. regds MEL
26 Post contains links and images PanAm747 : And don't forget your best chance to regularly fly on a 737-200: I just flew these two HNL-ITO and ITO-HNL. Not the most comfortable planes in the wor
27 AirWillie6475 : I wouldn't want to fly with your safe airline.
28 Post contains images UN_B732 : i say look at Northwest DC-9s, then we can talk Seriously, I think once the 732s have far too many cycles (as FR and WN have already, presumably, put
29 Litz : I remember reading once in one of the many numerous DC9 threads there's been over the years, that something in the way Douglas made 'em makes them st
30 Afterburner : Merpati, Mandala, Bouraq are not new airlines. They've existed for decades. It's true that they have been acquiring 732's because they were not allow
31 Fpofllflyboi : Morvious, perhaps you should have read Roberts first response or the thread starter in its entirety before you replied to mine. You obviously didnt.
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