ETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1966 posts, RR: 9 Posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2508 times:
With all these airlines around the world, there are for sure many flavours of reservation and checkin systems out there, some using bigger interlinked systems (galileo, sabre) or others using in-house systems. Can someone shed some light on what's out there? The ease of using one over the other?
I remember flying Westjet and being suprised at a) the speed of checkin (with a human), b) the minimal paperwork at checkin which consisted of a barcoded grocery store like receipt which showed my flight, gate and seat information (purchase made online, so nothing on their end, but I think it had a barcode as well). The main point here is that such system even reduces costs, human error related to data entry and processing speed. I don't remember getting a pouch for my 'receipt' at checkin (you know, those boarding pass holders?)...
Think of this... with all of those tickets and boarding passes we get at legacy airlines, the cost of maintaining such stock, of producing them, the pouches oh the pouches that are given out when we checkin (imagine how many of these are given out to whoever flies out of ORD or through ORD on any day for example), those magnet stripe boarding cards etc.
What system does Westjet use? Would it be, for the legacy airlines, too much to redevelop their res systems? Or are they linked with archaic systems that make it impossible to move forward?
TymnBalewne From United States, joined Mar 2005, 548 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2478 times:
BA uses Amadeus for reservations and inventory management but continues to use it's "home grown" DCS (Departure Control System) for check-in and weight and balance.
The check-in system is made easy by a front-end known as PRS (Passenger reception system). This allows the check-in agent to "fill in the blanks" and the required formatting of the entries is done behind the scenes.
Utapao From Thailand, joined Jul 2005, 638 posts, RR: 11 Reply 2, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2472 times:
ETStar -
You are right on track as far as automated checkin (kiosks or Internet). Many of the airlines have done everything possible to get customers to move to this type of automation. The reduction of ticket counter agents (certainly some customer service aspects suffer because of this) and the relatively low cost of maintaining check-in kiosks is exactly what airlines are targeting to help reduce their costs. Unfortunately, a certain percentage of the passengers still need to see an agent (non e-tickets, international, etc) and they have reduced their counter staff to a level that is too low in many cases.
As far as carriers maintaining their own reservation systems, etc., many of them do. That is a HUGE expense. Many others opt to use the services of the 4 GDS's to host/house their systems in a separated partition of the GDS.
Nearly every airline out there purchases services or software from Sabre, Galileo, Amadeus or Worldspan. A very significant portion of Sabre's business, for example, is in providing solutions for airlines -- everything from yield management, weight/balance, crew scheduling, aircraft scheduling, meals, baggage systems, check-in software, etc. Some of the other GDS's have similar offerings, but I don't know if it is to the extent Sabre has capitalized on it.
Designing a simple reservation system for a -small- carrier, including check-in, bar coding, etc., would not be unmanageable. For a carrier of any size, however, they have to weigh the cost of doing it in-house or purchasing the services from a vendor.
Even though automated checkin has been around for a couple of years, we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg. Smart cards, biometrics, etc., are all being investigated by some pretty smart people to see how airlines can speed up processing, simplify the passenger's experience, and, of course, reduce their costs. It will be interesting to see what comes out in the next few years. I'll just always miss having the "face" to talk to... at least some times!
Flykal From Australia, joined Sep 2003, 435 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2467 times:
KE uses TOPAS for reservations, and also DCS for check-in and W&B.
If you know the direct entry methods for DCS, to check-in the passenger and issue boarding passes and bag tags takes only a matter of seconds (even groups with thru-check-in). However, most agents I know use a "windows" style interface which is, not surprisingly, slower, but more user friendly.
Think of it like comparing Windows to DOS. DOS can be a hell of a lot faster - provided you know the entries to type!
One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time
Searpqx From United States, joined Jun 2000, 4331 posts, RR: 28 Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2459 times:
This is a pretty good thread from a few months back. It covers many of the current and past systems, with a lot of their history. Airline Computer Res Systems - 10Mar05
Quoting ETStar (Thread starter): Would it be, for the legacy airlines, too much to redevelop their res systems? Or are they linked with archaic systems that make it impossible to move forward?
Yes and No - The legacy systems (SABRE, APOLLO, Worldspan) have done an immense amount of development to keep up with the times. Your description of checking in with WestJet is identical to how I check in with AA. I show up at the gate with a piece of paper printed at home that they scan, and and from that local workstation interacts with SABRE to process all of the check-in function.
You are correct that developing on the mainframes is expensive, and time consuming. To get around that, today, most airlines that use one of multi-host systems (or at least the ones in the US), front end it with some sort of PC based automation.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
Goodmanr From United States, joined Apr 2005, 297 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2449 times:
Quoting Utapao (Reply 2): The reduction of ticket counter agents (certainly some customer service aspects suffer because of this)
I respectfully disagree. Clearly the role of ticket counter agents has been diminished, but I think service is much better at the kiosks. You can select your seat easier, and the process is faster than with an agent as you don't have to wait in line. I generally prefer not to deal with people when I don't have to (I know this feeling isn't universal) so I far prefer the kiosks. Of course, sometimes you do still need an agent, but I never seem to have trouble finding one behind the kiosk counter.
Some airlines have better kiosks than others, UA has great ones, NW and CO are good IMO, US are ok, but they're difficult to change flights on.
ETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1966 posts, RR: 9 Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2418 times:
Quoting Utapao (Reply 2):
You are right on track as far as automated checkin (kiosks or Internet). Many of the airlines have done everything possible to get customers to move to this type of automation. The reduction of ticket counter agents (certainly some customer service aspects suffer because of this) and the relatively low cost of maintaining check-in kiosks is exactly what airlines are targeting to help reduce their costs. Unfortunately, a certain percentage of the passengers still need to see an agent (non e-tickets, international, etc) and they have reduced their counter staff to a level that is too low in many cases.
Interesting, but from what I have seen (used AC and UA kiosks), it would pretty much take the same amount of time to check in at the kiosk if you do not have your $hit together, if you are not the typical frequent traveller who can almost do it blindly, or if you do not fly the same airline all the time. Checking in from home, which is quite amazing (and a great advancement) does give one some relaxed experience, instead of worrying that you are holding people back (chances are those lining up for a kiosk want to get done quickly etc). As for checkin personnel, it's more of a 50/50, because once again, if everything is fine, you would want to bypass, other times, you pray the person behind the counter is nice (ESPECIALLY if you are standby - now let's not lie, we all done it!). At AC, there's still the folks who tag your bags (if any, even if checked in at home) and you may have to jump a hoop or two.
However, I think the main issue that the kiosks and online checkin have alleviated is not the wages and manpower, but the lines at the checkin counters. I personally have not seen an empty counter when there is a flight out (let alone at hubs), and the more people fly, the more kiosks and counters even out... and we'd still need a counter agent during weather delays or missed connections etc (at which time we might even complain there ain't enough!)
But the other thing that I even mentioned in the starter post is the paperwork associated with travel. Kiosks once again only deal with time, but the damned boaring pass still has to print, you may still use that glossy boarding pass pouch, still gotta maintain the mag swipe readers (which at AA, from what I recall, were part of this clunk on a counter - goes in and out horizontally, like at a subway station), and all that. None of it is reusable either, so it's all out (not being tree-huggerish, but again, let's think of how many people fly say AA on a single day).
Quoting Flykal (Reply 3):
If you know the direct entry methods for DCS, to check-in the passenger and issue boarding passes and bag tags takes only a matter of seconds (even groups with thru-check-in). However, most agents I know use a "windows" style interface which is, not surprisingly, slower, but more user friendly.
Ah yes, I have seen those... I find that checkin staff (or any other establishment staff such as supermarkets) freak out when I lean over to see what they're typing (the software engineering in me...) or when I ask questions related to their systems or work - always get the "it's slow" response. At any rate, even with the direct entries, errors are bound to happen (say I have 20 yrs on DCS and this hot chick passes by my counter, and enter BKO instead of BKK). Scanners etc would eliminate that. Also, why not ONE single piece of paper for the whole trip: you have a three leg trip, three boarding passes, miss a flight in between, they tear it up right in front of you (they always scare me!) and issue new ones, etc etc etc.
Quoting Goodmanr (Reply 5):
I respectfully disagree. Clearly the role of ticket counter agents has been diminished, but I think service is much better at the kiosks
Personal preference, I guess. Mostly, line ups are the issue. Otherwise, get to chit chat, swipe a better seat, kill time, or as the a.nutter just nut out. Or talk too much and have a big red circled S marked on your boarding pass (ummpppf! now that was a deterrent)... but you can't blame those guys (not trying to open a can of worms here), but they deal with some serious phenomenons in their 8 hour shifts and can't be expected to be perky.
JGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2431 times:
Quoting TymnBalewne (Reply 1): BA uses Amadeus for reservations and inventory management but continues to use it's "home grown" DCS (Departure Control System) for check-in and weight and balance.
The check-in system is made easy by a front-end known as PRS (Passenger reception system). This allows the check-in agent to "fill in the blanks" and the required formatting of the entries is done behind the scenes.
Amadeus now manages DCS on behalf of BA.
The DCS system BA uses is the same RTZ/PRS system, which Amadeus now runs on their behalf. Amadeus also run QF's DCS system on QUBE. A brand new Customer Managment System is under development, called Altea Fly, part of the Altea suite of Airline IT product, which is designed to replace existing legacy DCS systems. Altea Plan is part of the same suite, it is the new inventory system developed for BA and QF, which is already in service, with AY migrating currently, and SAA migrating early next year.
Quoting Utapao (Reply 2): Some of the other GDS's have similar offerings, but I don't know if it is to the extent Sabre has capitalized on it.
Sabre have an extensive suite of airline IT products beyond simple passenger reservations, but others are entering the airline IT market with next generation products not based on legacy TPF systems. Amadeus' Altea suite is one excellent example, which is making serious inroads with major carriers.
One advantage for an airline of moving from their own in-house system to a GDS applications service provider, is that the GDS system is community based, so that all the participants derive benefit from economies of scale and joint community developments. Airlines get better connectivity with all other GDS's as well as their alliance partners and in the case of Amadeus, a common alliance booking platform. Amadeus hosts distribution for a great many of the principle alliance members, ie.
Oneworld - BA, LA, IB, QF, AY
Skyteam - AF, O.K (KL soon)
Star Alliance - LH, TG, RG, SK, JK, BD, OS, LO (plus OU, KF and JP) (SA soon)
in a single environment, allowing for common PNR database, common alliance-based distribution controls, shared access to Frequent flyer databases, shared fares and other information. This community distribution platform concept is unique to Amadeus ( )
Worldspan does host airline inventory and distribution, but (apart from DL and NW) it's a bit limited.
Galileo don't host airlines at all, although they do currently run UA's distribution system in Apollo (or Covia, I never know which it is, it's part of Apollo anyway).
Other providers of airline hosting systems are Sita Gabriel (they host A LOT of airlines), Navitaire OpenSkies (almost exclusively LCC's), Sirena 2000(Russian/CIS carriers), Atraxis (formerly SR's Res system now owned by EDS), SHARES (formerly the airline inventory portion of System One, now also owned by EDS), Travelsky/MIS (Chinese carriers), Mercator (owned by Emirates), and other smaller systems like Radixx and AirKiosk aimed at smaller carriers and LCC's.
GlobeTrekker From Netherlands, joined Dec 2003, 834 posts, RR: 21 Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2358 times:
KLM uses CORDA (Compterized reservations Royal Dutch Airlines) as their reservation system and CODECO (COmputerized DEparture COntrol for check-in and W&B. Other airlines like KQ and MP also make use of KLM's systems.
There is a Windows style interface called AXIS and AXIS GATE. It was implemented to simplified entries and speedy check-in, but was not a hit with KLM's ground staff in AMS.
At AMS pax are encouraged to make use of self-service kiosk, wether flying on a e-ticket or regular ticket. You check-in at the kiosk, print your boardingpass and then drop your luggage off. There is KLM staff available at the kiosk area. Telephone, fax and internet check-in is also available.
BMI does the same at LHR I noticed last week, when I was there. Check yourself in first.
Globe Trekker
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