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Two Airlines Sharing Aircraft  
User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9020 times:

Are there or have there ever been arrangements between airlines whereby they share aircraft? Say airline A flies from its home base to airline B's home base, then during airline A's "down time", airline B makes use of the aircraft to serve another city? While wet leases come to mind, any other partnerships where this has been taken to a higher level? Would countries have issues with such arrangements when giving out licenses?

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1845 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 9009 times:

I seem to remember there was some sort of agreement between BA & US many years ago. US aircraft painted in BA colors with US crew flying BA routes (LHR). Anyone confirm?


Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11837 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8983 times:

Back in the 1980s, AA and AS had a 727 interchange that linked Texas with Alaska using very unique 727s -- they were painted in AA's standard silver with red/white/blue cheatline on one side, and AS' white with the eskimo on the other. They flew on the routing IAH-DFW-SEA-ANC-FAI, with AA crews flying the plane IAH-DFW-SEA, and AS crews then taking over for SEA-ANC-FAI.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8961 times:

It's called an "interchange" here, and the only ones that readily come to mind were Braniff (v1.0) and Alaska, and later, American and Alaska. It was an Alaska 727-200, and Braniff/American flew it DFW-SEA, and an Alaska crew would take it SEA-ANC...

User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12278 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8943 times:
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Back in the DC10 era NZ and BA had an agreement. NZ would fly a DC10 from AKL-LAX with NZ crew and BA would fly the DC10 from LAX-LHR with BA crews

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26022 posts, RR: 50
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8941 times:

Aircraft interchanges were pretty common in the US especially in the early 1970s. Such interchanges allowed airlines to often service markets which they did not hold CAB authority to serve on their own.

Then there are also seasonal leases. Transavia Holland and Air Florida for many years used to regularly exchange B737-200s during their respective high seasons. Air Florida aircraft would head for Europe in the summer, while Transavia 737s would come over to the US in the winter.
Sun Country also in recent years has exchanged 737-800s with Transavia.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12278 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8941 times:
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In the 80s QF and NZ shared flights from WLG to SYD, MEL and BNE. The aircraft had both NZ and QF titles on it

User currently offlineMainliner From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 419 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8923 times:

What about the short period that Air France operated some sub-sonic Concorde flights for Braniff on US domestic routes? If I recall correctly, there were Braniff crews on those flights, and the flights were mostly JFK-DFW.


Every flight counts.
User currently offlineCaptinTuT From United States of America, joined May 2005, 346 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8910 times:
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Quoting TUNisia (Reply 1):
I seem to remember there was some sort of agreement between BA & US many years ago. US aircraft painted in BA colors with US crew flying BA routes (LHR). Anyone confirm?

i would say that was 1993 when US airways and BA had the alliance

Regards
TuT



Aircraft Flown: B747-B777-B737-B767-B757-A300-A318-A319-A320-A321-A330-A340-MD80-MD90-CRJ600-CRJ900-E190
User currently offlineHawk44 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 759 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8890 times:

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 1):
I seem to remember there was some sort of agreement between BA & US many years ago. US aircraft painted in BA colors with US crew flying BA routes (LHR). Anyone confirm?

Yes, BA and US did this with 767's and 747's out of PIT

And I know US did not have 747's but some of the crew on the 747's worked for US but wore BA uniforms IIRC, not sure of all the details but I know a few people that worked these flights and non-revved on them several times.



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Never under estimate the power of US
User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8875 times:

If im not right F9 Jetexpress and QX share the same RJs sometimes. . QX is the sole owner.

User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8834 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
Aircraft interchanges were pretty common in the US especially in the early 1970s

But were more common in the 1950s through 1970s.
By the 1970s many airlines were getting their own route authorities eliminating the need for such cooperations.

Back when the CAB carved up the country; dictating where airlines could and could not fly; interchanges were the only way an airline could expand into new territories, that was until they were awarded their own flights.

Delta/PanAm from London to Atlanta and New Orleans via Washington D.C..
Eastern/Braniff had a 10-stop monster from Atlanta to Denver.
Hughers AirWest/Frontier from SoCal to Denver.
Alaska/American to DFW/IAH and ORD/DCA from ANC via SEA.
Alaska/Continental to DEN/MCI from ANC via SEA.
United/Braniff SEA to DAL/HOU via PDX, BOI and SLC.
United/Continental SEA to ICT and TUL.
Plus the 3-way ABC, American, Braniff, Contiental, southern transcontinental route.



Delete this User
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5762 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8752 times:

If we go back in history a bit, around 1939 - 49, QF & BAs precessors used to pool aircraft between SYD & LON. QF put in one third of them and BA two thirds. Aircraft operated right thru from SYD to LON & return. QF crewed aircraft SYD-SIN & BA SIN-LON.

QF also do cruse charters all over Europe using B744s that would otherwise sit at LHR all day, are these on QFs own account or in some way done in conjuction with BA? as I dont think QF have traffic right to all the places they have been reported.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinePilotdude09 From Australia, joined May 2005, 1777 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8730 times:

with the A380's commin in would it be possible to have one airline operating with their format upstairs and another downstairs for example:
Qantas up stairs and NZ downstairs offering both their layouts??? i think its possible. and could work well if it was implemented correctley



Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8714 times:

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 13):
Qantas up stairs and NZ downstairs offering both their layouts??? i think its possible. and could work well if it was implemented correctley

LOL! Riiiiiiiiiiiight.  Big grin



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3335 posts, RR: 20
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8681 times:

wasn't one of the early concordes painted with 2 aircraft titles on either side?

might have been BOAC/BA and either SQ or Gulf Air...

Can anyone confirm?


User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8663 times:

"Qantas up stairs and NZ downstairs offering both their layouts??? i think its possible. and could work well if it was implemented correctley"

So if QF doesn't treat you right, you just pop downstairs!  laughing 

Here's some more.....

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Photo © Howard Chaloner


BA livery on the starboard side.

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Photo © Glen Reid


Air Pacific livery on the port side.

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Photo © Dave Faulkner


Leased from Qantas and also used for some of their services.


User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8519 times:

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 12):

QF also do cruse charters all over Europe using B744s that would otherwise sit at LHR all day, are these on QFs own account or in some way done in conjuction with BA? as I dont think QF have traffic right to all the places they have been reported.

Charters do not need traffic rights in the same way that scheduled services do. All that is needed is permission from the CAA for the foreign airline to operate the service on behalf of the chartering company, which is nothing like as complex as a scheduled service application.


User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5762 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8366 times:

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 17):

I was not thinking of UK traffic rights, I presume that was worked out a
l-o-n-g time ago, after 70 years of service the UK & Oz should have it worked out! I was thinking more of rights into European countries that QF has never served. I belive that they have done charters to BCN for example. Spain has never been on QFs radar, even in the days of 10 day/22 stop trips.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineVunz From Netherlands, joined Jun 2001, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8332 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 5):
Then there are also seasonal leases. Transavia Holland and Air Florida for many years used to regularly exchange B737-200s during their respective high seasons. Air Florida aircraft would head for Europe in the summer, while Transavia 737s would come over to the US in the winter.
Sun Country also in recent years has exchanged 737-800s with Transavia.

There's olso such an agreement between Transavia and South African at the moment.


User currently offlineDC10BHX From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8170 times:

1st post onto A-Net.

If memory serves me right CO had a DC-10 painted up with the left hand side as VIASA. It came into BHX just the once (which confused the spotters no end). I think they had a split livery with AZ on another DC-10 as well.



I'm lucky my job is my hobby
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8125 times:

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 13):
Qantas up stairs and NZ downstairs offering both their layouts??? i think its possible. and could work well if it was implemented correctley

Or how about TED upstairs and UA downstairs? Song upstairs and Delta downstairs? Why don't we get personal TVs? NO SOUP FOR YOU!



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAIRCANL1011 From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 262 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 7490 times:

Air Canada Shared an L1011 with Eastern Airlines on a seasonal basis.


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Aircan L1011



CYMRU AM BYTH / WALES FOREVER
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 6918 times:

Quoting Squirrel83 (Reply 10):
If im not right F9 Jetexpress and QX share the same RJs sometimes. . QX is the sole owner.

That's different. In that case, the only real difference is the livery on the aircraft. Horizon flies under contract for Frontier Airlines using the Frontier JetExpress titles on their aircraft...however dispatch rotations and such may place an aircraft in Frontier titles on another Horizon route, and a Horizon plane on a JetExpress route. In any event, the only difference is the aircraft.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlineTS-IOR From Tunisia, joined Oct 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 6728 times:

Condor and Lufthansa, formerly Hapag-Lloyd and SAT/Germania, AirBerlin and NIKI, and recently Tuninter leased an A320 to be shared with Tunisair.

25 Post contains images AMSSFO : Didn't KLM and Viasa share a DC-10 with KLM livery on one side and VIASA on the other one time long ago? Also, Alliance Airlines operates an F100 with
26 Aviationmaster : "If memory serves me right CO had a DC-10 painted up with the left hand side as VIASA." "Didn't KLM and Viasa share a DC-10 with KLM livery on one sid
27 AlitaliaMD11 : Khalfia and Air Algeria have done a fair shair of sharing aircraft like the A340-300.
28 Halls120 : I used to see those planes in ANC all the time, and it was very odd.
29 Post contains links MakeMinesLAX : It was IAD-DFW, and the interchange involved both BA and AF. A US (the country, not the airline) registration decal had to be slapped on the plane fo
30 N9801F : Doesn't look like anyone mentioned the WA-CO (Western+Continental) interchange. Customers could board an aircraft in Houston, fly with a CO crew to De
31 B707Stu : I flew that one in '78. Was a Air New Zealand DC-10 operating with a BA crew LAX-LHR-LAX.
32 BostonBeau : Pan Am had interchange agreements with Delta and Northwest at one point probably in the 60s, and only in the winter when traffic was lighter The Delta
33 Jetstar : When both TWA and Eastern Airlines first got their L-1011’s, in the early 70’s, they tried to share some of their 1011’s during the year. Easter
34 Post contains images Chilledflyer : Regarding BA/US partnership, US did paint one of their B767-200 into BA colours. Remembered seeing a few pics on A-net, so here you go! -chilledflyer-
35 RicardoFG : Skyservice and My Travel often swap aircrafts every season, widebodies usually come to 5G in the summer and narrowbodies in the winter...I know MP and
36 Jetdeltamsy : I flew AA/AS interchange service numerous times. It was the crew that were "interchanged", the aircraft were always AA aircraft..on both sides. Never
37 Jdaniel001 : I think people are confusing leasing vs. interchange. Alot of airlines did interchanges when the airlines were regulated. It was a way for them to "ex
38 WINGSOFMAN72 : This kind of obvious but just flew into DEL yesterday on VS and it was the Virgin Nigeria aircraft (G-VBUS). It's really just a paint job, the aircraf
39 TACAA320 : TACA and CUBANA share specially in flights to Montreal.
40 Searpqx : You beat me to it, yes there was a WA-CO interchange to both Canada and Alaska. There was also one with Wien & ? (CO I think but I honestly can't rem
41 SCCutler : Close, but they were actually true Braniff operations, with all BN crews (pilots and cabin), and the aircraft actually changed hands and registration
42 Tedex : SkyWest has some "generic" CRJ-200s that they'll fly as either United Express or Delta Connection.
43 HKGKaiTak : I believe the operative word here is "operated" - didn't Norfolk Jet Express go bust a month or so ago? IIRC QF is now flying the route with 737-400s
44 TymnBalewne : Actually, this was only done with the US 767's. I don't believe any US crew regularly operated the 747 (except for service training). The 767's were
45 Post contains links and images StealthZ : Or this period of co-operation between JAL & QF in the mid '90s View Large View MediumPhoto © Brian Wilkes Regards Chris
46 TUGMASTER : Just a thought , anyone remember seeing Gulf Air Tristars in the states in the 70'-80's and TWA L-1011's around the middle east...? This was due direc
47 Post contains links Ikramerica : http://www.braniffinternational.org/aircraft/concorde.htm
48 BCAL : Monarch and First Choice also swap aircraft with US/Canadian airlines or tour operators during the winter months. I believe that at one time Air 2000
49 764 : I seem to remember that about ten or fifteen years ago UA and AA were planning (never happened) to cooperate on the NYC-ORD and ORD-DFW markets in suc
50 Utapao : TACAA320 - sorry I haven't made it down to SJO last couple of weeks, but was in MEX this weekend and saw the TACA A320 (I believe) in TACA/Cubana liv
51 ExPedia : This principal of repositioning lift is the primary reason UK tour ops have such a huge presence in Canada. The UK market is a summer one; Canada is
52 Post contains links and images TACAA320 : View Large View MediumPhoto © Frank Robitaille Yes it does. Is leased from TA, with Irish registration. Its name is Mensajero de Esperanza, to ho
53 Vfw614 : Styrian Spirit currently operates its CR7 on schedules from Austria to Zurich and in-between the flights, the aircraft does rotation for Swiss from ZR
54 SunriseValley : To make it clear, the LAX-LHR sector was a BA flight. BA used the a/c on the LHR-BOS route and may be others, before doing the LHR-LAX return leg.
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