Wilax From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 465 posts, RR: 3 Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5475 times:
While working out this evening, just before sunset, in Inglewood, I saw a JetBlue A320 with the "tiles" tail on final approach to LAX 25L. What gives? Why would a JB land at LAX? If LGB arrivals were being diverted, I should have seen a stream of JB's landing, not just one. Can anyone find a flight report on that plane or someone in the know at LAX?
If I had to venture a guess, it'd be that they had some type of mechanical problem that precluded their landing on BUR's short runway...
I've run 737s in there over the years, and some mechanical problems that develop inflight require additional runway length that BUR just doesn't have available. As examples, an anti-skid going inop, landing gear problems, or an engine being shutdown (which on a 737 requires landing at flaps-15 versus the normal flaps-40 you plan at BUR). When these kinds of things crop up, you go somewhere else with a longer runway that can handle whatever performance degradation that the mechanical problem entails...
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21471 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5131 times:
But ONT is closer for an emergency.
The valley developed a high wind condition yesterday afternoon/evening out of the blue. My balcony door kept slamming shut, and the trees were going a little nuts. I can see the BUR landing path from my balcony, and am not too far away. Might that have had something to do with it?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Thelowfarehero From Cayman Islands, joined Aug 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5113 times:
ok..sounds logical. Makes plenty of sense. Especially with the length of rwy 8. A little off the topic, but alot of WN pilots love flying in there, say it's like landing on a carrier, especially for all the x-navy guys. SAN looks fun too.
From the center of LAX to the center of BUR is 18.0 miles, versus 46.5 miles for the center of LAX to the center of ONT.
Sometimes, the closest is not always the best. The Southwest LAS-BUR flight that had a main gear problem on arrival about 10 years ago went to ONT (even though it was farther) in order to avoid blocking a runway at LAX for several hours. With a far lesser amount of traffic, ONT was better able to tolerate it...
Skaggs From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 144 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 4874 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 6): Sometimes, the closest is not always the best. The Southwest LAS-BUR flight that had a main gear problem on arrival about 10 years ago went to ONT (even though it was farther) in order to avoid blocking a runway at LAX for several hours. With a far lesser amount of traffic, ONT was better able to tolerate it...
I was in ONT last month and they are down to 1 runway. 26R/8L is closed for a year.
Ontario, California (April 26, 2005) --- Ontario International Airport’s (ONT) $50 million Runway 26R/8L Reconstruction Project will result in its closure to aircraft operations for approximately 12 months beginning at 4 p.m. PST Saturday, May 7. The project involves reconstruction of the runway’s westerly 10,200 feet and includes the removal and replacement of existing asphalt pavement, signage, runway lights, storm drains, service roads, electrical vault, markings, and taxiway intersections.
“During the construction period, all aircraft landings and take-offs will take place from the airport’s parallel runway, Runway 26L/8R, which is 10,200 feet,” said Kim Ellis, ONT’s acting airport manager. “This runway can accommodate all types of aircraft and, with coordination from aircraft operators and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) air traffic controllers at ONT, will support the airport’s existing aircraft traffic load. Therefore, the reconstruction project is not expected to cause heavy flight delays.”
The project’s construction management company is Parsons Brinckerhoff Constructions Services, Inc. The construction contractor is Griffith Company.
“ONT management and staff will continue to hold meetings with the airport’s air carriers, general aviation aircraft operators, FAA, and other applicable agencies to discuss plans and procedures for minimizing departure and arrival delays, as well as noise impacts on surrounding communities,” said Ellis.
During reconstruction, aircraft operations will maintain their normal flight pattern of aircraft departing to the west and landing from the east, wind conditions permitting.
“Los Angeles World Airports (LAWA) invests millions of dollars into Ontario International’s infrastructure to accommodate the growth we are experiencing," added Ellis. “The runway project will facilitate aircraft movement and operations at ONT such as accommodating the Airbus A380 that will enter service in 2006 as the world’s largest aircraft.
ONT is located in Southern California’s vast “Inland Empire” region that includes San Bernardino and Riverside Counties. The airport is one of four owned and operated by LAWA, a Los Angeles City department that oversees an airport system in the nation’s second largest metropolitan area. The other airports owned and operated by LAWA are Los Angeles International, Palmdale Regional and Van Nuys.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24775 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4751 times:
OPNLguy is 100% percent correct.
The aircraft developed some flap problems which precluded the Burbank landing. After arrival LAX passengers were offered bus transportation back to Burbank.
The aircraft involved N589JB spent the night at LAX and departed this morning on a short ferry flight down to LGB at about 9am.
Also to cover last nights BUR-JFK redeye due to the LAX diversion, N510JB was ferried up from Long Beach.
As far as the diversion to LAX vs ONT discussion, Jetblue has established contingency handling at LAX which is the preferred diversion airport for its BUR/LGB/ONT flights, primarily as the facility is 24hrs, offers CAT II/III runways, has maintenance facilities, and most importantly offers the best passenger accommodation options (hotels, ground transport etc.) Last winter we saw a few diversions due weather and curfews.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
WesternDC1010 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 327 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4332 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 9): The aircraft developed some flap problems which precluded the Burbank landing. After arrival LAX passengers were offered bus transportation back to Burbank.
Where did N589JB park last night at LAX to disembark passengers? Was it at one of the remote stands at the northwest end of the field or one of the Imperial stands? Was it at one of the gates of a specific terminal?
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26350 posts, RR: 76
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4297 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 19): Yes, it is. If you are flying from JFK, and you experience trouble before reaching BUR, ONT is closer. Now, if you experience trouble on the BUR final approach from the West, THEN LAX is closer.
If you are coming from the Northwest, as most planes into BUR seem to do, LAX is definately closer. Also, if they knew of the problem well beforehand, they could plan the LAX stop. LGB could be thought of as a good diversion site for B6, except that it is not all that close to BUR, there is only the one long runway even though there are 5 runways in total and it is possible they wanted United Services to look at the aircraft
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4279 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 19):
Yes, it is. If you are flying from JFK, and you experience trouble before reaching BUR, ONT is closer. Now, if you experience trouble on the BUR final approach from the West, THEN LAX is closer.
I mentioned the distances between the respective airports back in reply 6.
When it comes time to divert a flight, us folks that actually do so base what's "closest" on where the airports are in relation to each other. Additionally, this jibes with diversion fuel calculations to the alternate, which are based from missed approach (right off the runway's end) to the alternate, and not an infinite number of directions/distances from the airport.
FLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4216 times:
Quoting N1120A (Reply 17): Quoting Laxintl (Reply 16):
I think we have given up on talking about the diversions as they seem to be a normal occurance even while having the passenger booking caps on the Burbank flights.
Hell, B6 should just lift the cap as it is not helping and get the extra revenue
True...if the passegers know there is a chance of a fuel stop and fly it anyway, might as well.