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AS Flights, SEA-JNU, SEA-KTN  
User currently offlineFlyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1881 posts, RR: 3
Posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2312 times:

I was looking at city populations, and this is just wired, AS flies multiple 737s to these small cities in Alaska, and I'm confused, does half the city go on vacations on a monthly basis or what is the deal...I Know in Juneau the only way in really, is by air, or water, because its not connected by any real highway system to the lower 48. Wow, AS sure does have a lot of capacity in there for a city that has around 30,000. I live in Eugene, OR and they have 11 flights here, and they are QX at that, then again, population doesn't always reflect how many people have to fly for jobs..etc...Obviously There is a reason for this capacity whether it be large oil corporations, geographical isolation, or cruise ports, I don't know, But I just want some info! Thanks guys!

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2294 times:

Think tourism - the time to visit Alaska is the summer and capacity increases during this high demand period to KET and JNU. Also, some cruise pax stopover in these cities as part of their CruiseTour of Alaska.

The only way into JNU or KET by air from the lower 48 states or just about anywhere else in the world is on these AS flights via SEA.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

As Dutchjet says, in the summer the capacity jumps due to the tourist influx, but overall its simply because it's the only way in or out. I grew up in Juneau and I don't know a single person that doesn't make at least one, if not two or three, trips outside every year.

As far as industry driving the traffic, other than the tourists, its mostly government travel between Juneau and Anchorage. The other major industries; Fishing, Mining & Lumber, don't drive significant pax numbers (but fishing does drive tremendous cargo volume).



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2254 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 1):
The only way into JNU or KET by air from the lower 48 states or just about anywhere else in the world is on these AS flights via SEA.

You can also fly in from ANC if you get a flight there.

There is another reason for all this capacity to Juneau is the fact that it is the capital city of Alaska and gets a lot of government traffic. The fares are high yield as well. One of the main reasons for the KET stop on most flights is the need for a good alternate in case of JNU's famous fog conditions. Finally, and most importantly, is cargo. This is true of fish and particularly mail, which AS basically carries all of



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2250 times:

N1120A........No fooling, there are flights from ANC-JNU? I said that they only way in FROM THE LOWER 48 and other points in the world is via SEA. Not many passengers (if any) are flying to ANC and then backtracking to JNU, and this routing is never used by the Cruise/Tour companies organizing travel for the zillions of passengers visiting Alaska each summer as part of a vacation package.

Government traffic is a major factor on the ANC-JNU flights, its not nearly as important on the SEA-JNU flights.....as stated, to get to/from JNU to anywhere in the world (except KTN, SIT or ANC, lets be specific) a pax must take one of the JNU-SEA flights and then connect onwards.


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6200 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2228 times:

One word!

*CARGO*

This is the biggest reason. KTN averages 14,000 lbs. of fish flown out daily, yes....... Daily! The larger amount of passenger only planes in the summer is tourism, but the large pits of the -400 and -900 are perfect for getting Fish and Crab out. Also, remember there are a lot of products that need to be flown in since Alaska can't grow many thing. SFO send and average of 5,000 pounds of produce to JNU and ANC on a daily basis. Hope this helps!

ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
other points in the world is via SEA. Not many passengers (if any) are flying to ANC and then backtracking to JNU, and this routing is never used by the Cruise/Tour companies organizing travel for the zillions of passengers visiting Alaska each summer as part of a vacation package.

You seem to forget that ANC gets its share of asian tourists as well as Hawai'ians

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
to get to/from JNU to anywhere in the world (except KTN, SIT or ANC, lets be specific) a pax must take one of the JNU-SEA flights and then connect onwards.

JNU has flights to Whitehorse, Yukon as well. Hence it is Juneau International Airport



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2187 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
JNU has flights to Whitehorse, Yukon as well. Hence it is Juneau International Airport

Not any scheduled flights. There are none in GDS.



a.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2180 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Not any scheduled flights. There are none in GDS.

It is done by a small carrier on what was a Navajo (not sure if it is still a Navajo, but they still do fly it) and likely does not sell through GDS channels.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2118 times:

Air North provides scheduled service between Juneau and Whitehorse.
The Air North website doesn't shows the route, but doesn't list the service, but I would imagine that's because it's not jet service. It can be booked via Travelocity.

To add on to what AS739X said, not only do almost all of the pax flights carry cargo, one (or two depending ont the season) 737-200QC, in all cargo configuartion, fly through each night. SE Alaska is totally dependent on air and sea service for everything. There is no significant local production of any consumer goods.

Oh, and to forestall any further bickering, Juneau has N/S Jet service to Seattle, Anchorage, Sitka, Ketchikan, Yakutat, Petersburg and Gustavus, with direct service (w/in Alaska) to Wrangell & Cordova. In addition, there are scheduled flights to Whitehorse, Haines, Skagway, Hoonah, Angoon and a host of smaller towns and villages in Southeast.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineWeb From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 427 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2064 times:

I've been on some of these such flights and they were packed pretty full (SEA-SIT, JNU-SEA); mostly tourists, as I visited in the summer. It's really the only way to get into the panhandle without taking an Alaskan State Ferry for a week, and (personally) I would never forgo AS's great service. The approaches into these small Alaskan places are awesome as well.

So really flying is the best way to get there (and get out!).



Next flight: GRR-ORD-PDX-SEA-ORD-GRR
User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1610 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2043 times:
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If you think Alaska's flights to Juneau are strange, consider that Alaska flies 737s into Yakutat, Gustavus and Cordova (I've been on all three flights). Its all cargo and tourists. In particular, Gustavus is the access point for Glacier Bay. There is a lot of sport fishing around Yakutat and commercial fishing around Cordova. Plus, as AS739X pointed out, they fly a lot of fish out (except this season, now that the 737-200 combis are gone and the 737-400 combis haven't arrived yet). When I flew home from Anchorage three weeks ago, they were stuffing Copper River salmon into every nook and cranny of the belly hold.

User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1209 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

Believe it or not, Yakutat also has a sizeable surfing crowd as well. I've had people from Australia on our planes that were going to Yakutat to surf. Who would have guessed?

User currently offlineFlyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1881 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2024 times:

the 200s are gone now? I thought they were on the way out, but still in service?

User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1209 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2022 times:

Quoting Flyboy80 (Reply 13):
the 200s are gone now? I thought they were on the way out, but still in service?

Theyre still around, just not on the southeast routes, except nightime cargo only flights. They are only using them on most of the Arctic stuff like Nome, Kotzebue, Bethel, Adak, Deadhorse, Red Dog Mine, etc.


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3260 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1988 times:

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
Not many passengers (if any) are flying to ANC and then backtracking to JNU, and this routing is never used by the Cruise/Tour companies organizing travel for the zillions of passengers visiting Alaska each summer as part of a vacation package.

Government traffic is a major factor on the ANC-JNU flights, its not nearly as important on the SEA-JNU flights.....as stated, to get to/from JNU to anywhere in the world (except KTN, SIT or ANC, lets be specific) a pax must take one of the JNU-SEA flights and then connect onwards

Actually quite a few passengers fly to Juneau through the back door from ANC. Since you mentioned Government. Lets analyze one city pair. The Federal Government city pair between Reagan-National DCA and ANC, using a capacity controlled non-restrictive fare is $379.00 each way. ANC to JNU is is another $229.00 each way, for a total fare of $1,216.00 give or take a few bucks.

To fly from DCA-SEA-JNU would cost in the neighborhood of $1,356.00. It is actually cheaper to fly through ANC, Most airlines will match the contract price if not beat it. In the DCA-ANC market, Northwest is a favorite, with one connection at MSP.

I'm not saying it is less expensive in all city pairs but their are several out there. The government contract travel agents always checks routing through ANC for passangers flying to JNU.  airplane   airplane 



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offline707lvr From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 585 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1980 times:

To add to the analysis, government, etc., Alaskans step onto planes much more readily than the rest of us. Hopping down to Seattle for shopping or a ballgame is very routine for those folks.

User currently offlineWeAreUnited From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 423 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1967 times:

Aren't most of these flights EAS (Essential Air Service) markets, and therefore Alaska gets money from the government to operate them? It seems I remember a couple months ago, Alaska Airlines was again chosen as the carrier to provide this service (even though that was of no surprise).

User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

Quoting WeAreUnited (Reply 17):
Aren't most of these flights EAS (Essential Air Service) markets

No, the bulk of the flights serve Juneau, Ketchikan and Sitka, which aren't EAS cities. There are two 'milk run' routes, ANC-CDV-YAK-JNU-SEA and ANC-JNU-PSG-WRG-SEA, that each get one flight a day southbound and one flight northbound. Cordova, Yakutat, Petersburg and Wrangall are all EAS cities, as is Gustavus, which gets a daily flight from Juneau, so a total of 3 EAS flights a day.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1209 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1865 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 18):
as is Gustavus, which gets a daily flight from Juneau, so a total of 3 EAS flights a day.

Are you sure GST is an EAS city? GST only sees service about three months out of each year. It's a VERY seasonal market for us. If it were EAS it would seem that they would require year round service. Plus, I think the only reason we fly there in the summer is for the tourists.


User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1825 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 19):
Are you sure GST is an EAS city?

Yep - http://ostpxweb.dot.gov/aviation/rural/Ak05-05.pdf (page 2). I was surprised as well. And from the amount of the subsidy, it gets the same amount as YAK and CDV, which implies year round service. Maybe AS subcontracts the off-season to one of the other carriers?



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1209 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (9 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1799 times:

Odd, as during the off season we don't even have code share service to GST so I don't think we're contracting the service out. Hmmmm.

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