Legacy135 From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 1052 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 9877 times:
A major part of operating costs always result from financing as well. I am sure, at the moment you can get an MD11 for very interesting lease rates. So it can be absolutely an up to date aircraft for some more years.
Remember, the last ones have been delivered when A330/340 have been around already.
That's true, but i am talking about Brand New A330's off the Production line. Although some MD-11's are only 10 years old, they will more than likely be taken out of Passenger service within the next 5 or 6 years. And if it is possile, they may be converted into Cargo Aircraft.
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9711 times:
If Finnair was thinking about replacing the MD11 fleet, I dont think that they would be looking for additional MD11s are reported in another thread.
I think that Finnair is quite happy with the MD11, its suits their route system, the operating ecnomics are acceptable, and they are probably much cheaper to lease or acquire than 777s or A340s. The MD11s are not very old, between 10 and 15 years old, and they fly longhaul segments which means cycles are rather low - the MD11s can be flown for many more years without any issues.
My guess is that Finnair, when its ready to think about a replacement for the MD11 fleet, will look directly to the A350 and 787 families of aircraft. Its a bit late in the game for Finnair to select the A330/343....they can simply wait for the A350 at this point. Finnair could be interested in the 787 family, since its ideal for long thin routes and/or the 777 series for higher demand routes. In any case, Finnair has lots of time to figure this out.
Just to make things accurate, Finland is not a part of Scandinavia. If you want to talk about Finland and Scandinavia together that would be Fennoscandia.
Finnair is not replacing their MD-11s during this decade, which means the A359 would be on the market just in time when they need the new planes. And although the '11s are maturing well, don't forget that McDonnell Douglas built their planes to last. Just look at the fleets of DC-9s/DC-10s still in use.
So what Finnair is saying here is basically that some time around 2010-2011, Finnair will replace its MD-11 airplanes with another plane. In my opinion, they will probably replace it with the A350 or the B787. I wouldn't be surprised if we will see a Finnair order some time soon for one of those two types. And since Finnair is currently growing like crazy, I guess that they need at least ten planes for the beginning of next decade.
Killjoy From Finland, joined Dec 1999, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9197 times:
Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 2): If/when they do, perhaps a smaller widebody would suffice. The 788/789 or 358/59 is probably inevitable.
Isn't the A359 actually larger than the MD-11? In any case, I don't think a smaller one will do, and I also think this will cause the B787 to lose.
Finnair is currently flying to Bangkok more than once a day and I highly doubt that they would want to cut capacity. The 359 can match the MD-11, but the 789 can't. It would force them to either increase frequencies, or to also fly the 777. The former option isn't all that attractive, as there already is a decent amount of flights, and the latter option of flying two types would obviously raise costs.
I'm not 100% confident about my theory, however, as other issues may also affect the decision. For example, they may well decide to replace the 757 with the 787, which would then make the 777 an obvious MD-11 replacement, even if it is a bit bulky for some routes, and older than the A350. Cargo capacity should also be important.
I do think a combination of A321, A358 and A359 is more logical, though. It'll leave a gap where the 757 is, but almost any solution will leave a gap somewhere, and it's one type less than the best Boeing-combination I can come up with (they already fly the A321).
Plus, if they keep growing at this rate, they'll need the A380 for BKK in ten years . Do any of you think that'll actually happen? I don't know. Stranger things have taken place.
Lumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8988 times:
Quoting Dogfighter2111 (Reply 19): I cannot give you a link at the moment. I will get you a link to a Boeing News Report where they said that with no more production of the B757, the B787 will serve as a Replacement.
Thanks, Mike. That'll be interesting reading!
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
RedChili From Norway, joined Jul 2005, 2367 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8947 times:
Quoting Killjoy (Reply 16): Isn't the A359 actually larger than the MD-11? In any case, I don't think a smaller one will do, and I also think this will cause the B787 to lose.
Agree. I checked the numbers on Airbus and Boeing web sites now, and I guess that the 787 will be too small to replace the MD-11 for AY. The A359 has 15 seats more than the MD-11 in three-class, so that's better.
OV735 From Estonia, joined Jan 2004, 937 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 8576 times:
I've heard the main reason why AY likes those M11's so much is because of what lies below the passenger cabin, ie the large cargo capacity, which is very useful as the airline doesn't have a separate cargo arm.
That's what keeps them from buying any A330's or 777 now, as both have much smaller cargo holds and AY probably doesn't want to cut down on cargo capacity, as that's a large source of income.
Since they're going to have to switch to new models some time within the next 10 years, and none of the current 'future' designs (787 and 350, that is) probably have a large cargo hold either, there would be basically two options: a) cutting back on capacity (unlikely, I think); or b) opening a separate cargo arm with dedicated cargo aircraft. In the latter scenario we could theoretically see some of those M11's being converted to cargo carriers, so that might give even more time for the tri-jet in the AY fleet.