D950 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 493 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4747 times:
Having been through it, I would call it a beautifully efficient white elephant.
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
DeltaFFinDFW From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4680 times:
Isn't it the only airport in the world that is expanding and sinking at the same time..
HZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1597 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4666 times:
It is sinking. Apparently, the seabed that the island was built over is extremely soft--which is why I thought it was odd they are expanding. Looks cool though!
N328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6222 posts, RR: 3 Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4657 times:
Silver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4538 posts, RR: 26 Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4619 times:
Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 4): It is sinking. Apparently, the seabed that the island was built over is extremely soft--which is why I thought it was odd they are expanding. Looks cool though!
I saw a special about this airport on "MegaStructures" last week and this topic was mentioned. I would probably have a clearer answer if it wasn't for the fact that it was like 3AM and I was half asleep, but I want to say it's not so much an expansion as it is a replacement. Due to the fact it is sinking, I believe there is a somewhat short life expectancy for the old runway/terminal.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
Brokenrecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4565 times:
NYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5155 posts, RR: 49 Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4551 times:
Are they also going to build an extension to the terminal. The land area for the second runway looks large enough to accomdodate a terminal expansion project.
Brokenrecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4531 times:
NZAA From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 163 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4454 times:
On "megastructures" it was mentioned that the new runway was vital. With only 1 runway there what would happen if an accident were to occur, apart from diverting the flights it is possible for them to keep the airport operational.
Also they beleive that the land will not sink any more.
BH346 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3265 posts, RR: 17 Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4444 times:
The second island will have a parallel second runway built on it. I believe it will be longer than the first, 4000m IIRC.
The terminal extension doesn't seem very clear anymore. I don't think there really is a need for it since the current facilities aren't near capicity. The Renzo Piano designed terminal is beautiful and functional.
Sinking rate seems to have reduced dramatically over the last few years and seems to be stabilizing. Once the second island is finished, KIX is supposed to start on a project to reinforce the first island by building walls to keep water out of the runway and from flooding the terminal.
Northwest Airlines - Some People Just Know How to Fly
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 14, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4362 times:
Yes, the situation is not nearly as dire as it sounds.
1. You can always add more earth on top of the original island, as it is manmade. That would mean the only real problem is you can't lift the foundations of the original terminals. The building can be lifted, but the foundation will continue to sink.
2. With the second runway, built on a higher island, it allows for the eventually closing and regrading of the first island, increasing that islands height above sea level as well. This is far off, but if it were to ever need to happen, a second runway allows that (again, assuming they do it quickly).
3. If over time, the building keeps sinking, there are many, many years to build a new terminal structure next to it, connecting the first and second islands. They left plenty of room. That would be 20 years off, and by that time, building a whole new terminal wouldn't be the end of the world anyway. Then, when the original is vacated, it could be taken down, the earth raised up (the only spot at that point that would be too low) and a new terminal built.
My college advisor was part of the engineering team preventing the leaning tower of pisa from toppling. They now have it at a point where it is slightly righting itself over time. Miracles can be done when you have lots of time to perform them.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Ktachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1729 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4323 times:
I think the new terminal building was debated. But for now, they were unable to get the construction fees to build it (maybe in the future). Thus, they are only going to have one rwy an a taxiway connecting it to the terminal. It's going to be about a 1km taxi from the threshold of the new rwy to the terminal. Well, I guess some areas of NRT are worse.
Centrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3597 posts, RR: 21 Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4273 times:
I have been amazed by the poor management of KIX. It has been open for 10 years and still has yet to make a profit. It commercial space is limited and IMO not the best.
Solution...build another runway and terminal? It has high landing fees and poor domestic connections. At sometimes during the day half of its gates will be completely empty. What would be the use of a 2nd terminal...it would be empty.
Not getting the terminal I think was okay. I think they should make black before spending more money.
When it comes to offshore airports...give me HKG or NGO anyday. Both of them are 10 times better than KIX in design, facility, and things to do while waiting. HKG & NGO are like entertainment districts with plans arriving. KIX is just a big building for Japanese group tours to leave from.
NGO is already ahead of schedule for being profitable in 5 years. If they are at the point of needing more space they will go to their phase two (2nd runway and terminal expansion).
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
Carpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2771 posts, RR: 4 Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4257 times:
Kansai Airport is no white elephant. Sure it cost a ton to build and maintain, but itfs definitely needed. Itami Airport sure canft handle all the traffic. The terminal isnft near to full capacity except between 0830 to 1100. Does it need a second runway: No. With Kobe Airport opening up next year and Osaka Itami still around, the second runway is definitely not needed.
The area to the far right of the picture is where the 4,000m runway will be located and slated to open in 2007. The terminal facility will be built between the existing island and the new runway, but that schedule is not yet determined. It will probably be next decade before construction starts on that portion. Besides, itfs probably a good idea that the reclaimed land sink first before the building structure is put up.
Next, I believe KIX is finally posting operational profits. However, they still have that mountain of debt to deal with.
While most places in the world have a difficult time (some places thatfs an understatement) building any airport facility, the Osaka/Kansai region by 2007 will have too much runway capacity. Isnft it better to have more capacity than what we always do here on A.net arguing over slots/building runways? Then, we can argue over which new airline/routes can serve the Kansai-region.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4221 times:
I don't agree on the runway. EVERY major international airport needs a second runway to be considered a viable commitment because, as stated, an accident could shut the airport down for a long time with only one runway.
But as you clearly show, KIX has plenty of time for the rest. No need to rush anything. Grow slowly and wisely, but they should focus on more retail. Maybe they are afraid the more they cram into the terminal, the faster it will sink.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
RamerinianAir From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4080 times:
They are spending billions on preparing for the A380. LOLOLOL
SR
Boeingfan71 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 96 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3971 times:
i saw megastructures too and it says that the first floors have walls that can move up and down due to have to being raised constantly and frequently.
HT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6473 posts, RR: 27 Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3836 times:
When talking about KIX we must not forget that this airport caters mainly for international traffic, while downtown ITM mainly caters for domestic traffic (even though both airports are designated as "Class 1" by Japan´s Ministry of Land, Infrastructre and Transport).
That means that ITM "takes away" a good portion of pax (= revenue) from KIX. And unless either KIX can generate much more additional traffic or some traffic is transferred from ITM to KIX, the situation with the poor revenue at KIX will continue.
The situation in Nagoya is completely different as the new Centrair effectively has replaced Komaki !
N79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3655 times:
KIX is expanding for the same reason that miles and miles of unneeded roads and tunnels are built all over Japan every year. The airport is underutilized as it exists and the 2nd runway will only saddle KIX with more costs without any real prospect for generating enough revenue to pay it off.
However you cut it, KIX is an economic disaster. It expensive and inconvenient for passengers and airlines. While Osaka may have needed another airport, a better, less costly solution could have been found.
25 ClassicLover: How is it inconvenient for passengers?! I got the train directly from Osaka downtown, and was there in 45 minutes. Once at the airport, I found it to
26 HT: The "inconvenient" may refer to a comparison to travel to ITM from downtown ... ? -HT
27 Ikramerica: No, because it's so far been a non-issue, rising far, far less than the dire predictions used to extort trillions.
28 N79969: I have been through KIX. That it looks nice and the train is fast really has no bearing on the economics of the project. Part of the problem is the re
29 Okie: Possibly KIX is sinking faster than anticipated due to debt load? I agree that to be considered a major player in international traffic a second runwa
30 UAMAYBACH1239: The airport is not sinking. It has settled faster than expected but it also has tapered off faster than expected. The second runway is simple double y
31 Kaitak: I don't care how expensive it is or how far it's sinking (unless I'll need to bring flippers and a swimming cap to check in), the Japanese know how to
32 IRelayer: I can't believe some of you people. You can sit there saying that this beautiful, amazing structure is unneccesary, or that it shouldn't be expanded?
33 Malaysia: They are going to add rail tracks under the terminal, so when the original runway sinks, the terminal slides to the new runway and land. right?
34 BuckFifty: There is the possibility that Itami may close within the next 20 years, when Kansai development is at a mature stage, with Kobe adding capacity to the
35 AirWillie6475: Because the other side is sinking.
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