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Alitalia Expected To Order 777s  
User currently offlineAllee From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 484 posts, RR: 0
Posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2404 times:

Just heard on my local news (Vancouver, BC) that Alitalia is expected to order 10 777-300s (plus 10 options) to replace their 747-200s. The deal is expected to be finalized this summer.

Allan

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTeahan From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 5294 posts, RR: 61
Reply 1, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

I doubt think so! They allready ordered 5 B 747 400's (+ 5 options) to replace there 742 200's! Maybe you are talking about replacing the MD11's!

Jeremiah Teahan



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineAa737 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 849 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2097 times:

Alitalia has 8 (I think) 742s left, and with only 5 744s on order I can see a few of the new 777s replacing some 742s, but I would think that most would replace the MD-11, a lot of airlines seem to be donig that.

User currently offlineDeltaAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2085 times:

An Italian Magazine has just reported the same about Alitalia. 10 777-300ERs, plus 5 options.

User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2081 times:

That is great news! They are better off buying 777s with powerful GE90s over the underpowered CFM56 powered A340-300.

User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2044 times:
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I doubt the A340-300 was in the running, more likely the A340NG, which we don't know if it is underpowered, yet.

Sammy


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2030 times:

Hi Sammy, I assumed it would have been the CFM56 powered A340-300 since Alitalia has a GE powered widebody fleet.

User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2018 times:
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Tedski, even though the A340-300 has CFM's doesn't mean they are common with the CF6's in the rest of Alitalia's fleet, so no matter what they choose, it would be a different type. Also, from what was said in the article, the 777-300ER is under consideration, and its competitor would be the A340-600, which will be Rolls powered.

Sammy


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

Hi Sammy, I bet they will go for the 777 over the RR Trent A340-600 because it is powered by the GE90 being that they are a big GE customer. Wasn't the reason for Air France going with the GE90 777-300ER because they didn't want the RR Trent on the new A340s?

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8124 posts, RR: 54
Reply 9, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2002 times:

TEDSKI, every single time you mention the A340, you go on about how 'underpowered' it supposedly is. It can reach 39,000 ft from brakes off in 31 minutes, fully loaded, 207 miles from liftoff, at max climb power in normal airline operation. You have a serious obsession with A340s being under powered and gloating weirdly whenever Boeing win a sale for their also excellent product. Why?


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineAvion From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 2205 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1994 times:

AF hasnt ordered any 773 yet, have they?

Avion


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2000 times:

Are we sure that this order is for a 747-200 replacement? As stated earlier, Alitalia recently ordered 5 747-400s with 3-5 options as a 747-200 replacement. Alitalia has been quoted as looking for a MD-11 replacement. The 777-200ER would make a perfect replacement. Its a great aicraft and has commonality with the 747-400s that they recently ordered. As for the A340-200/300 being underpowered, well there is no easy way to say this. IT IS.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

Hi Sammy, the reason I gloat about the A340 is because some European airlines who use to have 747-200s who were making profits on some of their busy routes were pressured by the EU to go for the A340-300 to replace their older 747s instead of the high passenger capacity high power 747-400 & 777.

User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1963 times:
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Tedski, tell that to Cedarjet, I said nothing about your gloating!

Sammy


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1954 times:

Sorry Sammy about that, I am sure you support me on this, as far as Cedarjet you should know that the EU is pressuring many European airlines to buy Airbus products to help their economy instead of supporting the US who liberated them in two World Wars.

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8124 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1955 times:

Tedski dear boy, please explain what you are talking about when you say that European airlines were forced to buy A340s against their will when they really wanted "high power [there it is again], high capacity" 747-400s and 777s? What on earth are you talking about? Airlines are in business to make money by carrying passengers from A to B, not artificially supporting aircraft manufacturers. If LH were forced to buy a huge fleet of an unsuitable type of aircraft, how come they made $530m profit last year? If Airbus are so crap, why do they have 55-60% of the world market? You think this is done by "pressuring" airlines to buy AI product?

The 747 is too big for most EU carriers (Swissair, Sabena, Austrian, SAS) and those few who can profitably deploy it are very happy with their decision, as are their host governments: Lufthansa, Air France, British Airways, Iberia, Alitalia (BTW all the main 747 operators in Europe are the flag carriers for the Airbus risk-sharing nations).

I would love to know where you get your inside info on the airline business and politics. Please stick to the facts!



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1934 times:

What I am trying to say is that if a European nation's airline doesn't purchase Airbus aircraft that nation will not receive any kind of economic support from the EU.


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8124 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1921 times:

Bullshit. I'd love to know your source, though.


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1918 times:

WATCH YOUR MOUTH!!! WE ADULT PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM DON'T TALK LIKE THAT!!!!

User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1920 times:
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Tedski, I don;t think i totally support you on this. Although I do think there is some political motivation in the purchase of Airbus in Europe, but it works just the same on this side of the Atlantic, and other parts of the world.

Sammy


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8124 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1917 times:

What kind of response do you expect when you post drivel like, "If a European nation's airline doesn't purchase Airbus aircraft that nation will not receive any kind of economic support from the EU." I think my post is less offensive cos mine is based in fact and yours is fiction and a malicious fiction at that.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1904 times:

I agree with you Sammy, I over did it with my response to this topic. I do think that if an airline is making a good profit with an aircraft that suits their needs, when it comes time to replace it because of it's age, it should be replaced with an advanced aircraft that will help the airline gain more profit. I shouldn't be pressured into buying something that I don't want. Many airlines that have aging 747-200s should replace them with new aircraft like the 747-400 or 777 that match or surpass the performance of the aircraft it replaces.

User currently offlineLH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1891 times:

I totally agree with Cedarjet on this one. In no way has any European Union country ever received less support from the EU because their national airline bought non-European. British Airways has historically been one a Boeing operator, and I believe that the Airbus purchase was strictly economically based. Air France, Airbus' home country's national airline, is moving towards a Boeing-oriented long haul fleet. SAS, the national airline of Denmark and Sweden, and non-EU Norway, which in coming years will have 737's, A321's, and A330/340's.

This proves three examples of where economics plays the primary role in an airlines decision for which manufacturer, and not poltics.

Anyways, why don't you look at your own government, who less than hid it's decision to give less aid to Israel, if they bought Airbus.

LH423



« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
User currently offlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2744 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1889 times:

This is great news, if true. I've been waiting patiently for more 777LR/A340NG orders, but didn't think I would hear anything until FIA 2000.

As far as the A340 being underpowered, there is a good (informed) discussion about this very thing going on at the Tech/Ops forum. I suggest everyone wanting to post about this read that discussion first. The main point being that the A340 IS underpowered, but only because it was designed that way, to be more economical.

Avion,
AF is strongly rumored to be ordering 777-300LRs. I can tell you that I have a pretty reliable source that says this is true. Sorry, I don't have the amount of frames. Of course, now there is a rumor (how true, I don't know) that the French gov't will only permit AF to order 773LR if they also buy A3XX. If true, it is a very sad turn of events for the aviation industry as a whole.  

Cedarjet,
As your posts are based in facts, you of course know that market share is measured by deliveries, and not orders. Therefore, Airbus (deservedly) gaining 54% of the market in 1999 does not mean they have 55-60% of the current market. Contrary to optimistic comments by Mr. Leahy.

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineA330 From Belgium, joined May 1999, 649 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (14 years 4 months 2 weeks ago) and read 1837 times:

Tedski, don't talk about things you have no knowledge off.
You clearly do not have the slightest idea how the EU and it's member states work, and you have no knowledge about the airline industry.
Airlines buy Airbus for it's price, economics, cockpit-communality and advanced technology.
NOT TO PLEASE THE GOVERNMENT!! (but EL AL had to buy Boeing, or else, the US would discontinue aid to Israel... this is a fact by the way, not gossip.)

ps. let's not start a Euro-US fight OK...



Shiek!
25 TEDSKI : I'm sorry to everybody I have offended, because this past weekend I flew for the first time on a Boeing 777-200ER, I have started to become pro-Boeing
26 Alitis : Its no secret that EL AL was pressured to buy Boeing. In EL AL's case, if you are spending the US' money, I think they have a right to tell you what t
27 A330 : The B777 is indeed a great plane, and I love it. So, TEDSKI, we agree on that one... Everyone is entitled to have his own opinion, but it should be ba
28 TEDSKI : No problem, I hope that the new RR Trent A340-500/600 matches the thrust that the new 777-300LR is suppose to have. The new GE90-115B is supposed to h
29 DeltAirlines : It would be nice to see a 777-300 operater in Europe. I hope this happens. I think it would be for the MD-11s, as Alitalia has 5 firms and options lef
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