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NWA Uses Champion Air To Cover Flights Today?  
User currently offlineMikeM2648 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 102 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7947 times:

Lookup Flight 1983 DTW - LAN:
Departs: Detroit-Wayne County Int'l, MI (DTW) Arrives: Lansing, MI ( LAN )
Gate: Gate:
Scheduled: 5:23PM Scheduled: 6:03PM
Actual: Cancelled Actual: Cancelled
Aircraft: Weather: LAN
Note: Passengers re-accommodated on Champion Air.

Looks like this was more than just a rumor?? I thought this was only for a potential mechanic strike. Why would Champion be covering flights today?...has this ever happened before? This flight is still in the future..they seem to have made this decision well in advance,

-Mike

[Edited 2005-08-10 20:31:16]

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNeilalp From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1034 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7898 times:

Yep just noticed the same thing on EWR-DTW

Departs: Newark Int'l, NJ ( EWR )
Arrives: Detroit-Wayne County Int'l, MI (DTW)
Scheduled: 2:36PM Scheduled: 4:27PM
Actual: Cancelled Actual: Cancelled

Note: Passengers re-accommodated on Champion Air.


How many planes does Champion have? My guess is their fleet would hardly help NW in the strike case.


User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9625 posts, RR: 68
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7890 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

http://www.championair.com/our.html

Currently our airline operates a fleet of sixteen Boeing 727-200 aircraft and serves a wide variety of customers that include major tour wholesalers, professional and college sports teams, the Department of Defense, and corporate incentive groups.


User currently offlineMikeM2648 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7847 times:

Departs: Lexington, KY ( LEX ) Arrives: Detroit-Wayne County Int'l, MI (DTW)
Gate: Gate:
Scheduled: 11:25AM Scheduled: 12:47PM
Actual: Cancelled Actual: Cancelled
Aircraft: Weather: DTW
Note: Passengers re-accommodated on Champion Air.

Its not hard to find ....it appears this has happened a lot today. Anyone inside NWA have a clue what is going on?

-Mike


User currently offlinePremoBrimo From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7831 times:

Found another one....

Departs: Detroit-Wayne County Int'l, MI (DTW) Arrives: Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton, PA ( ABE )
Gate: Gate:
Scheduled: 6:00PM Scheduled: 7:24PM
Actual: Cancelled Actual: Cancelled
Aircraft: Weather: ABE
Note: Passengers re-accommodated on Champion Air.
Status: See Note Above



Now You're Flying Smart.
User currently offlinePremoBrimo From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7774 times:

and another....

Departs: Fargo,ND/Moorhead,MN ( FAR ) Arrives: Minneapolis/St. Paul-Int'l, MN (MSP)
Gate: Gate:
Scheduled: 2:45PM Scheduled: 3:39PM
Actual: Cancelled Actual: Cancelled
Aircraft: Weather: MSP
Note: Passengers re-accommodated on Champion Air.
Status: See Note Above



Now You're Flying Smart.
User currently offlineMikeM2648 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7754 times:

Departs: Dallas/Fort Worth-Int'l, TX ( DFW ) Arrives: Detroit-Wayne County Int'l, MI (DTW)
Gate: E6 Gate: A10
Scheduled: 12:25PM Scheduled: 4:04PM
Estimated: 12:25PM Estimated: 4:06PM
Aircraft: Weather: DTW
Note: Passengers re-accommodated on Champion Air.


Do these flights violate any sort of contract NWA has with its unions ...or is this an OK thing to do? I just dont recall ever seeing them (or anyone else) use a charter carrier before. How many flights are cancelled today?

-Mike


User currently offlineAirplanePeanut From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7707 times:

Departs: Baltimore/Washington-Int'l, MD ( BWI ) Arrives: Detroit-Wayne County Int'l, MI (DTW)


Gate: Gate:
Scheduled: 4:19PM Scheduled: 5:59PM
Actual: Cancelled Actual: Cancelled
Aircraft: Weather: DTW
Note: Cancelled due to aircraft maintenance.
Status: Cancelled

Any relation?
 airplane peanut



..
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7580 times:

How did they get the 727's to the airports? Did they call them or did they happen to be at these airports? Because Champion Air flies to some airports but what if they dont fly to an airport that the passenger is stranded in from NWA?
Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineCBPhoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1552 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7555 times:

I think they would fly them into the airport. I doubt Champion just sat in Fargo waiting for NWA to cancel it's flight!


ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineMikeM2648 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7536 times:

I think they are making the run both ways (from and to the hub). It looks like the champion air DTW - LAN is immediately followed by a LAN - DTW, based on looking at the flight status,

-Mike


User currently offlineAdmluvs2fly From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 166 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7510 times:

where are you finding this info?

User currently offlineNkops From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2662 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7450 times:

Am I reading this wrong.. or is NWA putting weather in as the reason for cancellation...

This has to be a violation of the pilots contract... unless NWA is operating the flights as a charter, but I don't think they could get a way with that.



I have no association with Spirit Airlines
User currently offlineOkie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3009 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7443 times:

I think Champion only has 10 planes configured for passenger/charter operations the other 6 are configured for executive type accommodations.
Champion does flights for several vacation operations but I am not sure how many planes are tied up with those tasks and for how much of each day. I was on a DFW-CUN-DFW trip recently through MLT vacations. I believe the same plane did an DFW-LAS-DFW trip as well. That give you a DFW-CUN-DFW-LAS-DFW for one day. I am not sure of how many extra crews or excess equipment that CA has on hand.

If you do a little research you will find that Champion Air is more than loosely affiliated with NWA.

I am sure this is part of the ongoing saga at NW. Looks like it is going to get
REAL UGLY!

Okie


User currently offlineAsstChiefMark From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7184 times:

I wonder if we'll see a topic entitled "MSP Rarities" or "DTW Rarities" if there's a NWA strike.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Christian Mogensen



Mark

[Edited 2005-08-10 23:49:58]

User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7179 times:

Quoting Admluvs2fly (Reply 11):



Quoting Admluvs2fly (Reply 11):
where are you finding this info?

It's on NWA.com, pull up flight status for the flights mentioned in this thread.


User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1397 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7131 times:

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 14):
I wonder if we'll see a topic entitled "MSP Rarities" or "DTW Rarities" if there's a NWA strike.

I can't speak for DTW, but Tim keeps a good list on his MSP Update Charters & Diversions page.

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 7111 times:

From Wikipedia....

In 1987, MGM Grand Air, a charter airline owned by the casino, with a focus of operating VIP charters with luxurious aircraft, took flight. Operating Douglas DC-8 and Boeing 727 aircraft in lavish configurations, MGM Air was one of the most comfortable and expensive flights money could buy. However, by 1994, with business jets being the latest fad for celebrities and business leaders, MGM Grand Air was no longer profitable, and the company sought to sell it off. The buyer was Front Page Tours, a small tour operator based in Salt Lake City, UT dedicated to providing airlift to sports teams and their fans to major sporting events. The name was changed to "Champion Air" and the fleet was standardized on the Boeing 727. However, success never came to this airline, and in 1997, Minnesota Twins owner Carl Pohlad and Northwest Airlines acquired the company. The airline packed up and moved to Minneapolis, where it shared facilities and resources with Northwest, and replaced Sun Country Airlines as the leading charter operator for Northwest-owned MLT Vacations. The airline continues to operate both VIP and general charters for MLT and other operators to this day.

From NW's Annual Report.....

MLT Inc. MLT Inc. (�MLT�), an indirect wholly-owned subsidiary of NWA Corp., is among the largest vacation wholesale companies in the United States. MLT develops and markets Worry-Free Vacations that include air transportation, hotel accommodations and car rentals. In addition to its Worry-Free Vacations charter programs, MLT markets and supports Northwest�s WorldVacations travel packages to destinations throughout the U.S., Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, Europe and Asia, primarily on Northwest. These vacation programs, in addition to providing a competitive and quality tour product, increase the sale of Northwest services and promote and support new and existing Northwest destinations. In 2004, MLT had $469 million in revenues.

There is your link!



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6874 times:

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S9844.html?cat=1

Aparently the pilot's union isn't happy. (Not sure why if they were still getting paid)



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6739 times:

From the article: "The company says the move was neccesary because of "an abnormally high level of aircraft that are currently out of service."

But it shows weather as the reasons they were out of service? Isn't that an obvious lie?


User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6701 times:

Quoting B744F (Reply 19):
But it shows weather as the reasons they were out of service? Isn't that an obvious lie?

No, it wasn't weather.

After the flight status was cut and pasted into the forum, it becomes a little decieving. The part where it says "weather DTW" is not part of the actual flight status. It is simply a link so you can check out the current weather conditions at DFW (or any other city depending on which flight you are checking the status of).

Its something that could have easily started confusion.

In the link above shows "cancellation due to aircraft maintnence"



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineOkie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3009 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6504 times:

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 17):
in 1997, Minnesota Twins owner Carl Pohlad and Northwest Airlines acquired the company. The airline packed up and moved to Minneapolis, where it shared facilities and resources with Northwest

Thanks for looking that up Skibum9. I had to take care of some other duties.

When CA starts replacing their 27's guess where their "Used but Nice" A-320 series aircraft are going to come from.

I am sure between the pilots and MX NWA looking for excuses to change/modify/or dissolve labor contracts including filling bankruptcy before October change in the bankruptcy laws.

I repeat things may get UGLY at NWA.
I hope they do not get so narrow minded that end up stiffing the paying passengers that pay the bills.

Okie


User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4369 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6465 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 18):
Aparently the pilot's union isn't happy. (Not sure why if they were still getting paid)

Because ALPA does not want to establish any kind of customary practice or settled expectation on this issue that could be used against the union sometime in the future.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineTCFC424 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6401 times:

A few questions that come to my mind regarding these incidents.

1) Is the unusually large number of aircraft out of service due to:
a) The abhorrent (LOL) use of 30+ year old DC-9 series aircraft
b) A mandatory update of aircraft that require extensive out of
service time
c) A slowdown by the mechanics of NW
d) Some other factors that have not yet been addressed
2) Are the pilots/staff of Champion Air governed by the NW agreements with
their pilots/staff, or is it a separate agreement
3) Was this an operational test of "If all hell breaks loose?"

It seems this, if any of the above statements are correct, cannot be a good thing for NW. I agree, it does appear that things will get real ugly real fast for this legacy. I'll finish with a list of SPECULATIVE QUESTIONS that I have.

1) How long could NW maintain its current level of sevice if a strike (or multiple strikes) occur at the airline?
2) Could a strike mean the end of NW if it is not mitigated in a timely manner
3) Is the airline doing ANYTHING to prevent a strike or are they simply waiting until it happens and planning for the worst?

In any case, it appears the skies are quickly darkening over NW. Just as I avoided UA prior to their bankruptcy (US doesnt fly to Austin) I will avoid any travel aboard NW.

Mike S in AUS


User currently offlineN2111J From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 148 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5983 times:

I had intended to start a topic on this, but I see it happened on more than just my flight today. I was booked on NW 698 DFW-DTW, and as I was walking to the gate was surprised to see a Champion Air 727(N683CA) there instead of the scheduled A319. The agent announced that the 727 would be replacing the normal aircraft. I lucked out, as my seat 21C turned out to be an exit row on the 727. I thought it was fantastic, getting to fly on a classic airliner, the number of passenger 727's in the US must be very small. The cabin crew appeared to be Champion, and they gave out free snackboxes to the entire plane, the ones they charge $5 for on regular NW flights. The flight was smooth as silk, with an on time arrival in DTW, thoroughly enjoyable in every aspect. The union vs management tones of the previous posts have definitely tempered the enjoyment of the flight though.

25 Crownvic : Anyone lucky enough to be in N2111J's shoes should thank the airplane God!!! Reminds me of a trip back in the early 1980's Cartagena-JFK that was a sc
26 Hawk44 : Pure speculation but if they say the flight change is due to wx they can get away without giving out vouchers and things like that, if they say it's
27 N2111J : I didn't even realize until now, but I did get a $100 voucher along with all the rest of the pax on the Champion DFW-DTW flight, even though the fligh
28 Pilottim747 : Pilots dont get paid if they dont fly. With more cancelled flights, pilots will be flying fewer hours. They do have a monthly guarantee of paid hours
29 Jblake1 : Here's another question.... Why would Champion be able to complete a flight during bad weather but NWA could not? Is it due to weather at a previous s
30 Trekster : You lucky lucky people I know it might sound bad, but WOW. Northwest planres getting replaced by 727's i wanna get on one of those BADLY Hope the situ
31 Vinceb1117 : Yeah no surprise here, there was an article in USA Today last week that Champion Air would be picking up some routes from NWA. As for violating a pilo
32 Lucianflyboy : I am flying NWA tomorrow DFW-DTW. I guess I won't know if they change to champion until maybe I get to the airport. This sucks! This is my first tiem
33 Jetjack74 : Block or lineholder Pilots and flight attendants are pay protected if their flight or trip cancels as long as it isn't caused by the crew itself. Sic
34 Cubsrule : Let me paste it again for those of you that missed it the first time around
35 Aviationwiz : All I have to say is that NW can rot in he**.
36 Tjwgrr : Why? I'd rather ride on a nostalgic Champion 727 than a NW A319..... Won't be much longer and the only thing riding 727's will be boxes and envelopes
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