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Bmi - Call In The Consultants?  
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3745 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4180 times:

Bmi is in a mess, isn't it about time that they called in independent consultants to devise a strategy to sort themselves out?

88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4154 times:

A particular consultant called Dickie Branson perhaps.......

User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3745 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4121 times:

,,,,or Barbara Cassani..

User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4083 times:

Time for major action

1 Close heathrow operation. Sell slots,
2 close regional
3 ditch long haul fleet
4 Close bmibaby brand
5 Commence significant operations ex Manchester, Birmingham and Leeds
6 rename as British Midlands
7 base fleet around a319 - Follow Air France Dedicate concept for long haul ex Manchester and current 'modular' concept for short haul.

By having focus they can succeed.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineFlycro From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

I can't believe you suggest BMI don't have focus!!!!!

Lyon 4 times weekly is pure genius!!!!


User currently offlineBoysteve From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4039 times:

Sorry BestWestern but I differ from your plan.

BMI needs to reassert itself as the UK's second airline and quickly. One of BMI's strengths (when they had some) was being a credible alternative to BA. I believe this was good for competition and still should be. This means regular shuttles from LHR to MAN/EDI/GLA, as well as services to key European destinations, with good consistent service. This market is big enough to support 2 UK carriers. The biggest single complaint I have read in various threads on here is the down-grading of these services to the point where they won't through-check baggage anymore on the cheapest tickets. This needs to be reversed.

I would concentrate the long-haul routes from MAN (yes, I know I'm biased). With good connections provided by BMI domestic/SAS/LH these would be successful. ORD does very well, IAD was successful before they down graded it (73% loadings on an A332, these pax should not have had their quality of service/aircraft sacrificed). LAS appears popular also. I would operate the Mumbai flight from MAN, afterall PK operate 17 times weekly to Pakistan from MAN, so why not any direct India flights? Full co-operation with Star alliance needs to be maintained.

It is only a few years ago that the future looked healthy for BMI, it shouldn't be too difficult to go back if they have the backbone and the balls to do so and admit that things have been unclear of late. I base my views on what would be healthiest for customers from the UK regions as well as for a bmi strategy. Afterall they need to understand the needs of current and potential customers also.

As for BmiBaby. This should run as a totally separate business, maybe drop the bmi and become just 'Baby' as to not confuse marketing strategies and corporate identities. After this I don't really have an opinion as to whether the low cost operation should be sold off completely or not. My only hope is that they keep the same call sign;

"Baby, cleared to land".......... Always makes me  Smile


User currently offlineSTARCREW From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

I couldn't take anymore new business models...lets just agree the management should go back to playing with toy train sets.


there is only ONEWORLD
User currently offlineSchooner From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3939 times:

Lets face it, their f@cked.

Cheers.



Untouched and Alive
User currently offlineZkojh From China, joined Sep 2004, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3885 times:

bmi = bloody muddle indeed


NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3862 times:

Didn't they just announce that MAN-IAD is being cut? Wow...wonder if UA will pick that up, now that they're getting 4 763's back.

User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3794 times:

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 5):
This market is big enough to support 2 UK carriers

However, there are now five Six significant UK based carriers

1. British Airways
2. easyJet
3. Ryanair
4. Virgin Atlantic
5. Bmi
6. FlyBe

IMHO, Bmi is the weakest of the lot of these, both financially and strategically.

They need to find a market where they can be the strongest player and dominate. That will never be heathrow, where they will continue to struggle. Heathrow slots also have millions and millions of pounds of value attached to them, which can be used to expand the regional operation. Manchester and Birmingham are huge cities crying out for proper air service. British midland can provide this.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3745 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3737 times:

Ryanair is significant in the UK, but it dosen't have any UK registered Aircraft.

Does bmi have any trophy routes? LHR-PMI is rumoured because a director apparently likes to go on holiday to PMI.


User currently offlineAirEuropeUK733 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 976 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3731 times:

Quoting STARCREW (Reply 6):
lets just agree the management should go back to playing with toy train sets.

Maybe they could have a go at the PC game Airline 6 before they are let loose on the real thing again...

OR

they could just stick to playing with the Lego airport  Wink

AE733



It's nice to fly with firends
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3726 times:

I'm available to take on the work - providing they give me a nice fat fee  Wink


Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 3720 times:

Quoting Richardw (Reply 11):
Ryanair is significant in the UK, but it dosen't have any UK registered Aircraft.

But the average Ryanair customer in th eUK probably doesn't know this.

Besides, serving other EU destinations means it doesn't matter that they are non-UK, they are currently the second or third (behind easyJet) biggest carrier in the country. BMI, serving almost entirely domestic and EU destinations, is under a great deal of threat from them.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24853 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3705 times:

From being a distant observer across the pond but also frequent traveler to the UK, I've never quite figured out were BMI falls as far as type of airline.

Are they a full service airline ala BA, a carrier in the middle trying to cut cost and be efficient, or a LCC ??

Seems every few years the direction of the entire corporation changes. Between routes, aircraft, product offerings etc.
Besides to domestic and European mix ups, I truly cant figure out what their long haul ambitions are with their small A330 fleet. Is it part of Star Alliance strategy to feed North America hubs, leisure to the Caribbean & Las Vegas, or now India and Saudi Arabia from Heathrow?

I can fondly remember taking BD in the 80s and early 90s when the carrier had a very decent domestic and European product, superior to BA's in my opinion. However since about 2000, I have tried to avoid the carrier as each contact with seems to be different leaving me puzzled with the overall inconsistency.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBA380 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3700 times:

the problem is that if they called consultants in, the would engage 5 different consultancies, give them half a project each, discontiune 2 projects half way through and ensure that none of the parts of the project were based on the same data so they would be useless.

Still, calling in consultants would be preferable to waiting 6 months and then calling in receivers



cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3694 times:

Don't forget EZY carries more pax from the UK into Europe than BA now.

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3683 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Perhaps it is time for LH to step in - as per the article below Sir Michael Bishop can force LH to acquire the rest of BMI (not sure if it works the other way round though - eg can LH buy the stake whether SMB wishes to sell or not ) maybe LH should do this while there is still some residual value left in the airline - who knows they could even get together with their star partner SQ aand try to finally put into motion the oft discussed combination of BD and VS into a single entity - perhaps if Sir Michael ( and his apparently well known dislike of Sir Richard Branson ) was out of the way this could be made to work


http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1106736980.html

"January 26, 2005
Sir Michael Bishop, half-owner of UK airline bmi, is unlikely to sell his stake in the carrier in the short term, industry sources said on Wednesday amid speculation about the company's ownership.

Under a deal signed in 1999 between bmi and Germany's Lufthansa, Bishop has the right to exercise a put option this year which would force the German carrier to buy his stake in bmi for around GBP£229 million (USD$429.8 million).

Bishop owns 50 percent plus one share of bmi, formerly known as British Midland. Lufthansa owns 30 percent and Scandinavian airline SAS has the remaining 20 percent.

An industry source said it was highly unlikely Bishop would sell as the airline was now recovering from two years of losses and following a management shake-up.

Speculation about the future of Bishop's stake came after the Daily Telegraph newspaper said on Tuesday that Lufthansa had approached British Airways and Virgin Atlantic about selling its stake in bmi.

Another source dismissed the possibility of BA buying Lufthansa's stake in bmi.

Virgin Atlantic also reportedly rejected Lufthansa's approach but said it remained interested in forging closer ties with bmi.

Bmi has recorded two years of losses after a downturn in long-haul travel following the September 2001 attacks on New York, but said last week it expected to report a break even result for calendar 2004 and 2005.

Bmi is a valuable acquisition target for Virgin as the short-haul carrier holds the second-largest number of sought-after takeoff and landing slots at London's congested Heathrow Airport behind BA.

Lufthansa and bmi declined to comment."



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3666 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 18):
Perhaps it is time for LH to step in - as per the article below Sir Michael Bishop can force LH to acquire the rest of BMI (not sure if it works the other way round though - eg can LH buy the stake whether SMB wishes to sell or not ) maybe LH should do this while there is still some residual value left in the airline - who knows they could even get together with their star partner SQ aand try to finally put into motion the oft discussed combination of BD and VS into a single entity - perhaps if Sir Michael ( and his apparently well known dislike of Sir Richard Branson ) was out of the way this could be made to work

Problem is that if LH controlled over 50% of BMI, then they would have to cease the long haul stuff as BMI would no longer be a primarily Uk owned airline. That would mean under existing bilaterals they could fly those India services for example.

Not a problem in theory, as many people have said that BD's long haul aspirations are a joke and they should concentrate on short haul. However that then begs the problem as to what LH would do with it. Could they really make some serious money out of it on purely UK and European flights. The main benefit would be to feed traffic into their FRA and MUC hubs for long haul connections - but they already do that pretty well already in their own name. And they would always prefer to feed star partners long haul traffic into LH short haul at FRA or MUC than BMI flights at LHR.

To be honest BMI would be too much of a headache and not enough gain for LH. Merging with VS is all very well, but again they have to avoid the majority foreign ownership rule - the reason why SQ can't go over 49% of VS.



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3649 times:

Quoting Richardw (Reply 11):
LHR-PMI is rumoured because a director apparently likes to go on holiday to PMI.

Well, the director is in for a shock with PMI frequencies being hacked this winter down to x3 weekly. I cant believe that Heathrow can only support x3 weekly flights to palma.


Honestly LH should acquire BMI, and run the company from Frankfurt. In this way, they can close the UK management offices and remove all the duplication between the companies. LH would also have a home for their 733's also.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineZSOFN From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1413 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3642 times:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 19):
Merging with VS is all very well, but again they have to avoid the majority foreign ownership rule - the reason why SQ can't go over 49% of VS.

Isn't this irrelevant in terms of a BD / VS merger? They're both UK owned are they not? Or have I misunderstood you? Tends to happen  Smile


User currently offlineBA380 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1466 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3638 times:

I have been advocating a LH takeover for some time. It makes sense for all concerned. The current state of affairs is excreble and with LH owning the lot, they could start to make themselves into a truly Europe-wide airline.


cabin crew: doors to automatic and cross-check...
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3641 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Cornish (Reply 19):
Problem is that if LH controlled over 50% of BMI, then they would have to cease the long haul stuff as BMI would no longer be a primarily Uk owned airline. That would mean under existing bilaterals they could fly those India services for example.

Doooh!!!! good point , hadn't thought that one through  boggled 

Presumably LH have been able to get around this for LX ? perhaps it could be done for BD also in a similar manner - ie put the other 51% stake into some sort of holding company until the bilaterals can be tweaked ( though I suppose both BA and VS would scream and shout - and I guess with LX they ( LH I mean) had the Swiss government on their side - not too sure how interested the UK govt would be in hurrying through amendments to a fistful of bilaterals to assist LH )

seriously though , with the mess that BD seems to be in I could see LH concluding that if they might be forced into "investing" GBP229 million in BD then it is probably better done sooner rather than later in the hope of salvaging something .  Smile



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineCornish From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 8187 posts, RR: 54
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3637 times:

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 21):
Isn't this irrelevant in terms of a BD / VS merger? They're both UK owned are they not? Or have I misunderstood you? Tends to happen

Sorry I meant in response to the remark about the two merging as part of a LH/SQ get together not as seperate to that. VS is 49% owned by SQ. BD is 20% LH owned and 20% SK owned currently - if LH took over Sir Michael's share then it would be cobnsdierably more than 50% foregin owned.

My brain still hasn't quite woken up yet - hope that makes sense  Smile



Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
25 Cornish : I think you've answered your own question - lets face it BD would come a poor third in any govt negotations behind BA and VS. A sad fact, but true. A
26 Billy : Cornish, you are right. Making LCC work out of LHR is tough because you need room to grow, and have slot flexibility to alter your summer and winter p
27 Cornish : Very true. Also asides from the actual high costs at LHR, the issue of turnaround times and delays at the airport would make true LCC operation a non
28 BestWestern : Apart from the slots, what value does BD offer to LH and SK? It can be argued that LH doesnt need anymore slots at Heathrow. They already have an exc
29 Jmc757 : Why sort BMI out? Where would we egt our entertainment from then? Let the comedy continue i reckon!
30 Cornish : Absolutely. I'm talking pure monetary value of the slots if sold. Other airlines would pay megabucks for some of those.
31 Post contains images Work4bmi : Hello, Yet more rubbish from those who dont know! Sure, your entitled to have your say - but alot of what I continue to read just makes me laugh. You
32 BlueShamu330s : oooh, someone's touched a nerve. You will find that most posters are or were diehard bmi supporters. Instead of throwing your toys out of the pram, t
33 AirEuropeUK733 : Just because someone may advocate that LH should buy out BMI doesn't mean that the staff would suffer. Indeed, maybe the prospective purchaser would
34 Skymonster : Yet more rubbish from someone who's swallowed the output from the Donington Hall propaganda machine hook line and sinker. OK Work4, which of those si
35 Cornish : Thanks Shamu. You are so right. most of the people on here who are critical of BMI and their current direction are people who have openly said that t
36 BestWestern : Dont you love it! That's the attitude I'm seeing from BD thesedays. With that attitude you dont deserve to survive. Perhaps, I will do that. How does
37 Billy : I think that BMI is in the position that BCal were in; too small to be big, too big to be small. They need to radically re-engineer their business (as
38 BestWestern : Hell, they have already announced changes at regional, and are planning to review the remaining business class by the end of the year. Someone should
39 Kiwiandrew : I can believe it , but LH may not have a choice if Sir Michael Bishop forces them to purchase the remaining 51% as per their 1999 agreement - then th
40 Post contains images BestWestern : Like their staff downing tools for the afternoon???? I'd Air France!
41 Vs25 : Like the rest of many people here, I am/was a big lover of BMI. The fares from LHR have got no cheaper. Ok so the headline price may be less, but it s
42 BCAL : I disagree. BCal had totally different problems from bmi. For starters, they were never allowed access to LHR (that privilege was given to VS who wou
43 Work4bmi : Hello, Thanks for the replies... I totally respect all of your posts and or course enjoy to read them. I have not been baffled with the "science" part
44 STARCREW : well you are obviously not customer facing.... I can't be positive, the new business model has been introduced in a completely inept way from not tel
45 STARCREW : and another thing... You cannot bring in a low cost concept at LHR! It is not a low cost airport, it is expensive to fly from and its congested. Low c
46 BestWestern : I have no problem with BD implementing a buy-onboard concept - its a great idea.... I do have a problem in the way they have done it, as it will not
47 Skymonster : Work4, I understand your loyalty to the company - I was an inmate of Donington Hall for nine years as you know, and I too was proud of the company and
48 Orion737 : Call in the consultants? Call in the men in white coats more like!!
49 BestWestern : For me, this one move has completly distracted BMI senior management for over three years. It resulted in BD taking their eye of their problems at He
50 Cornish : Exactly. And BD have two main areas that seemingly dominate their thinking at the monent - the whole baby concept - now spreading to mainline and lon
51 Richardw : With MyTravelLite gone or going from BHX, is there an opportunity for WW to dominate at BHX? For WW to be successfull it needs to become the preferred
52 BestWestern : They have, and their answer is 'Modular'. Basically Bmi want to be everyones friend. the airline for the masses. You know what happens when you try a
53 Post contains images Cornish : "Modular" - just illustrates my point about some marketing person in charge....
54 Skymonster : Jack of all trades, master of none!
55 Post contains images BDKLEZ : What, call in the consultants and waste a hell of a lot more money on a six-month "feasability study" etc. These guys will cost a fortune, and a fortu
56 MainMAN : I don't get this idea people have about dumping long haul from MAN. MAN to ORD (esp with UA/star alliance), Las Vegas, Barbados are obviously routes
57 BDKLEZ : I totally agree, but the MAN operation has always been second best, an afterthought, something to fall back on if LHR doesn't work out. It's never be
58 MainMAN : Very similar in fact to BA/JFK, whether or not it makes a stack of money for shareholders. Does MAN really need them? Nah. I'll keep my fingers cross
59 Eric : You'd think that someone who works for the airline would know that it is actually spelled bmi, not Bmi. Welcome to the new world my friend!
60 BDKLEZ : Correct, but a little bit of a petty comment. I hope that humour and sarcasm were intended, if not then grow up!
61 JoFMO : My advice concerning BMI would go to LH, SAS and SQ to sit together at the next Star Alliance meeting and talk about a solution for the whole VS/BMI t
62 Cornish : They can't currently fly LHR-JNB or CPT due to the existing bilaterals. The bilaterals won't change any time soon either. South Africa won't budge be
63 7LBAC111 : Wow - I have been away for a few days and cannot believe I missed this thread! A biased business man does not make a good business man though. and we
64 Richardw : The LHR-LYS service should do quit well during the ski season as more people take more than one ski holiday per year, usually a long weekend.[Edited 2
65 Post contains links and images Varig_dc10 : View Large View MediumPhoto © Paul Kipping In my opinion British Midland started going down hill when they got shot of these beauties! LHR to MME
66 StarGoldLHR : Personally I think BMI would do well to sell it's LHR Slots. Move all it's regional fleet to run from LCY. For the larger AC 318/9/20/1/330 run a base
67 Post contains images MainMAN : To be honest, MAN is already too well connected for this to be viable. In terms of leisure destinations, we have WW, LS, ZB and BA using this size of
68 Vs25 : I just thought I'd let those from BMI who participate on a.net that your recent changes have meant that you will be losing another loyal (silver, and
69 BestWestern : Forget it - LCY is way too expensive airport to operate from, and has crazy weekend opening hours. So many airlines have tried and failed miserably a
70 Post contains images BDKLEZ : With the advent of WW a few years ago and the transfer of the majority of services ex EMA fro BD to WW, at the time we were under the impression that
71 BestWestern : Great Idea. 733's are perfect for these routes. Not at all! Manchester and Birmingham are perfect profit centres by an airline that focuses on them a
72 Cornish : They were there, the agreement was made and then they backed out (at the time of the India awardings) citing that they couldn't reach agreement with
73 ZSOFN : MAN-JNB would be a great plan apart from the a/c utilisation problem. LHR-JNB would not be viable - it already codeshares with SAA who will also soon
74 Cornish : Well they also can't under existing bilaterals. Additionally, despite being a SAA code-share partner, the South African Government would never allow
75 Sulman : If true, that surprises me. I was quite familiar with the area a couple of years ago; there's been a substantial amount of residential development th
76 ZSOFN : Too true. Sooner that route is liberalised sooner we'll see fares drop (they're still pretty high considering the level of competition on the route)
77 BestWestern : As a monoply carrier on MAN JNB, whats to stop them offering a day flight ex MAN and turning the aircraft straight around in JNB?
78 ZSOFN : Would be great but I think it's a little too tight. The flight would probably be around 11:30 hours including taxi time. 1/2 hour turnaround is unlik
79 BestWestern : They could schedule two aircraft to do a JNB - MAN MAN - ORD and vv runs with comfortable turnarounds. No route is ever a true monopoly, but I for on
80 Post contains images ZSOFN : Good point! All in all it's no surprise BD are considering this route after all. The only point I would raise is whether there is indeed the demand.
81 Cornish : Well with BMI not going to do it now, there is a certain other South African airline keen to operate the JNB-MAN route (among others in europe) shoul
82 7LBAC111 : Is that SAA or Nationwide?
83 Post contains images ZSOFN : SAA? Nationwide? Don't keep us in suspense... By the way sorry to anyone who feels this is getting a little off topic. Start a new thread on this per
84 Post contains images Cornish : Well its not SAA.... Sorry - that's enough South Africa talk . Still, I think BD were silly to turn their nose up at a MAN-JNB service, but then they
85 ZSOFN : Personally I don't think BD have much to offer LHR travellers. The place is at full capacity which pushes up costs even if they are opening up new rou
86 MainMAN : The South African population is spread around the UK pretty evenly. Of course, there's a mass in the South East (London) but there are quite a few el
87 Donder10 : Wimbledon alone probably fills up 1 744 a day to JNB!
88 ZSOFN : Thanks mainMAN, wasn't sure if that was the case. See that's what I had in my head!
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