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What's Going To Happen To Our Planes?....  
User currently offlineSTARalliance24 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 378 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9811 times:

Sorry the previous post has been deleted.....Whats going to happen to our planes when gas and oil will be extinct!!!! The planes that make our lives joyful are going to be GONE  cry . What are they going to do about it? How are we going to travel? Not everyone can afford a 12 day cruise across they Atlantic!!!! Are they going to make electric planes? Will they build a new type of fuel that doesn't come from down below (fossil fuels)??? Feel free to say your comments about this.

69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineThelowfarehero From Cayman Islands, joined Aug 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9784 times:

yeah it's pretty lame how they delete some of those, especially when you are being hit with a good ammount of replies. I wouldn't mind turning a 737, A320 etc. Into a small home, or a solar powered house boat.


I HAATE AA!
User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2669 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9774 times:

Well, how about a solar powered plane  Wink? Oh, wait. The UK would be f*cked.

User currently offlineSTARalliance24 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9744 times:

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 2):
Well, how about a solar powered plane ? Oh, wait. The UK would be f*cked.

Ya the solar panels could cover the whole wings and body. It would add a little bit of weight but I'm sure the scientist can figure that one out. And by the way Vancouver would be screwed too.  Wink


User currently offlineThelowfarehero From Cayman Islands, joined Aug 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9728 times:

hopefully they can engineer a synthetic fuel, maybe out of soybeans , or corn, something renewable. But I will deffinately miss the smell of Jet-A


I HAATE AA!
User currently offlineSTARalliance24 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9723 times:

Quoting Thelowfarehero (Reply 4):
hopefully they can engineer a synthetic fuel

like cow crap or horse sh*t


User currently offlineThelowfarehero From Cayman Islands, joined Aug 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9704 times:

what about human urine? The airline will practically force beers down your throat so you consistently make trips to the lav which empties into the fuel tank.  stirthepot 


I HAATE AA!
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12899 posts, RR: 100
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9677 times:
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Quoting Thelowfarehero (Reply 4):
hopefully they can engineer a synthetic fuel, maybe out of soybeans , or corn, something renewable.

There is no reason, other than cost, that one cannot run an aircraft on vegetable oil. Oh, antifreeze and fuel injector cleaner would need to be added (toxic stuff), but you could run the aircraft on bio-fuels. My dream!  hyper 

But alas, the barrels per acre aren't up there yet. But hey, at $65 bbl... the average farmer only gets $550/acre per crop per the monsato web site... so soon they'll be growing our fuel. (vegetable oil is a decent #2 fuel that can be used to heat homes, run in some diesel engines, and in a modified form gas turbines.)

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineN243NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1626 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9661 times:

You might want to check out this thread in Tech/Ops right now. Personally, I feel that bio-diesels will be the next step in powering the airplanes of the future.

-N243NW Big grin



B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9645 times:

Let us hope that by the time the crude oil reserves are gone already Aliens have contacted us and show us how there UFO's work!

Seriously,
I'am still not convinced on what is said about the oil reserves...
I live in a country where they ask 1.33 EUR per liter gas or around 5$ per gallon...
Still they import the fuel for 5 or 10% of the price we pay, the rest is tax...

So is it making believe people that the world reserves are almost empty and thus able to ask for higher prices or is the crude oil really exhausted and thus worldwide people would pay such amounts? I don't think so...

Off course a fact remains that aircraft are huge "energy" spillers, so it is good to search for alternatives and get less dependent from oil producing country's or even your own country in my case  Wink

Anyway the future fuel will be H2O with a little additive!


User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9622 times:
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To answer your question - if we cannot develop an alternative fuel, which is synthetic and non-carbon based - our planes will be parked in the desert. The will also require the creation of new engines--which can burn these non-carbon based synthetic fuels.

Close your eyes, and imagine a world where planes are powered by artificial fuel which is in unlimited supply. See the planes dancing across the horizon without contrails from our clean burning synthetic fuel...



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineSWISSER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9560 times:

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 10):
To answer your question - if we cannot develop an alternative fuel, which is synthetic and non-carbon based - our planes will be parked in the desert. The will also require the creation of new engines--which can burn these non-carbon based synthetic fuels.

Yes!
it has been 50 years from prop to jet engine, now we are 50 years later from Jet, I think it is time to explore new possible methods!
Maybe a reverse power on Earths gravity! that would be something and maybe usable to get easely in space!
I'm dreaming too off course!


User currently offlineMainMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 2097 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9443 times:

Quoting Thelowfarehero (Reply 1):
yeah it's pretty lame how they delete some of those, especially when you are being hit with a good ammount of replies. I wouldn't mind turning a 737, A320 etc. Into a small home, or a solar powered house boat.

I's not lame, it's pretty understandable in the present climate. Just think about it.........  Smile


User currently offlineSTARalliance24 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9235 times:

I'm sure some super intelligent scientist is reading this page and is taking notes. With all our bright ideas maybe we have saved our airplanes.......or maybe not  stirthepot 

User currently offlineMatt72033 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1617 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9166 times:

Quoting STARalliance24 (Reply 3):
It would add a little bit of weight

but you'd save weight not having fuel on board!


User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3589 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9128 times:

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 10):
To answer your question - if we cannot develop an alternative fuel, which is synthetic and non-carbon based - our planes will be parked in the desert. The will also require the creation of new engines--which can burn these non-carbon based synthetic fuels.

Bio-fuels such as vegtable oil or soy are carbon based. What type of non-carbon based synthetic fuel are you talking about. Nuke? The reactors are a bit heavy.

Quoting STARalliance24 (Thread starter):
Are they going to make electric planes?

Not likely. What source will you get the electricity from? Batteries are way too heavy, the available surface area on a plane is woefully inadequate to utilize solar (red-eyes would also present a problem) and I doubt that a 8K mile extension cord is a good answer.


User currently offlineSTARalliance24 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 9040 times:

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 15):
Not likely. What source will you get the electricity from? Batteries are way too heavy, the available surface area on a plane is woefully inadequate to utilize solar (red-eyes would also present a problem) and I doubt that a 8K mile extension cord is a good answer.


DAMN you just kicked out that possibility.  Sad


User currently offlineMatt24wigan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8996 times:

u all like using bad language

User currently offlineIlgrancapo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8936 times:

18 years ago Iberia celebrating it´s 60th aniversary of its fundation ask for a great sketcher of comic strips (forges) to draw different strips relating Iberia´s history.

From 1927 until 1987, Forges drew different stories about the post years of the Civil Spanish War. In these years the fuel existencies are very poor and Iberia was lucky because most of its flights consumed normal fuel as many of the cars that we use today. The aircraft used in these flights was the Dragon Rapide (De Havilland DH-89).

In one of the post years of this terrible war, one of the stories showed people inside an aircraft and under their feet were PEDALS!!!!. The captain ask for efforts because without it the plane never take off.

That´s were we´ll arrive in a near future if anyone find other energy source and if it´s possible, renovable.


User currently offlineSkyexRamper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8806 times:

Quoting STARalliance24 (Thread starter):
Whats going to happen to our planes when gas and oil will be extinct!!!!

We will never know because that time is far far from now.


User currently offlineNealcg From United States of America, joined May 2004, 141 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8589 times:

I think one great myth that oil will just one day run out one day and we are all screwed. The reality is that as fuel becomes more scarce over the next 50 to 100 years the price will continue to increase thereby making alternative fuel sources more viable. One big thing advocates don't tell you about the failure of alternate energy sources from being a real competitor or petroleum is the absolute cost and efficiency advantage that petroleum has over ANY alternative...Its not even close.

Now if petroleum starts becoming noticeably scarce the price advantage will begin to disappear and alternative will become more attractive.

It is also important to remember that we get our oil from relatively easy to get locations. There are other vast reservoirs of petroleum products still in the earth but they are either very expensive to get to or they are of such poor quality that given the market it isn't worth the cost to refine it. As prices increase it will become feasible to exploit these less worthy petroleum products. So the answer is that current engine technology based on a carbon based fuel will probably be around for at least the next 100 years except for breakthrough in hydrogen based engine systems, which is likely.

my .02



REMEMBER...NO MATTER WHERE YOU GO...THERE YOU ARE !!
User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2423 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8369 times:

We are not running out of petroleum. The demand for petroleum has outpaced the ability to pump, refine, and deliver fuel and oil to a hungry global market. Prices are high because demand is high, and those who are willing to pay the price get the goods. Econ 101 applies here.


Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineThelowfarehero From Cayman Islands, joined Aug 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 7849 times:

Us americans are to blame for alot of the consumption. Look at the highways, practically everyone drives an SUV, and not just the smaller models, im talking excursions,escalades, suburbans etc, and 90 % of the time there is only 1 maybe 2 people in that massive truck. It's funny , cause in europe ,hardly will you ever see such gas guzzlers. If we bought within reason, and bought more fuel efficient everyday vehicles, maybe our airlines and economy wouldnt have to suffer so much.


I HAATE AA!
User currently offlineStarrion From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7667 times:

"Us americans are to blame for alot of the consumption. Look at the highways, practically everyone drives an SUV, and not just the smaller models, im talking excursions,escalades, suburbans etc, and 90 % of the time there is only 1 maybe 2 people in that massive truck."


Yes everyone drives an SUV. Let's see in our parking lot of 120 vehicles I see 2 SUV's and six pickups. All the rest are cars. Perhaps a little more realistic assessment rather than wild overstatement would be more credible? Are there too many large SUV's? Absolutely.

Much of the US is wildly spread out geographically, so mass transit is not a realistic option, but we do need to invest more in metro areas because the roads are simply too crowded. If reliable and inexpensive mass transit options were available, a lot of people would be happy to switch.

The same is true of airplanes. Amtrak has failed miserably to provide fast service on the busiest corridor in the US between Boston, NY and Washington. Aircraft in large numbers between the three Boston-area airports, the three metro NY and three Metro DC airports. Fast and reliable Rail service could have replaced all this highly inefficient transport but Amtrak has failed to offer it. Their Acela trains had to be pulled because the brakes were wearing faster than expected. The whole rail system needs to be replaced with a true high-speed replacement but that won't happen while Amtrack is in charge.



Knowledge Replaces Fear
User currently offlineFlyMeToTheMoon From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 242 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7623 times:

If we switch to #2 diesel to fuel planes then NW will NEVER, EVER retire the Diesel 9s (aka DC9)!!!!!! They are already ahead of everyone else by using diesels.

On a serious note - despite of all the doom and gloom oil is not going to run out in our lifetime. Yet this is the problem - as long as we still have oil there is absolutely no incentive for anyone to come up with alternative fuels. Pretty pathetic. On a historic note - during WWII the Germans came up with all sort of synthetic fuels for their planes, so who knows, some of that technology will be reapper. But do not hold your breath.

In the mean time - Happy Flying!



Fly me to the moon... but not through LHR!
25 STARalliance24 : That's what I'm afraid of too......Our children's children will not get the chance to see what we are seeing today (magnificent aircraft flying in th
26 SATX : Ever heard of Texas? Maybe I should go outside to my parking lot and take a picture for you. You'll see an SUV, TRUCK, car, SUV, V8-SEDAN, car, TRUCK
27 ExFATboy : The eventual answer is probably hydrogen, derived from seawater using nuclear energy (fission or, if we have it by then, fusion.) I'm not sure how we
28 SLUAviator : We have to be realistic, the cost of fuel is not going to come down. That means airlines need ways to eliminate the use of fuel. If you save an averag
29 Post contains images STARalliance24 : I'm gonna miss the smell of the burning fuel as the airplane takes off. But I wonder what burning crop fuel is gonna smell like????
30 727EMflyer : French fries. Mmmm..... Bio Diesel is alive and well. I think you will see it become a mainstream automotive fuel within 20 years. Thats not ver long
31 Kykevin54 : I'm looking forward to new fuels. When the new ones arrive, demand for gasoline will go down and the price will follow. Then, I can actually afford to
32 Post contains images STARalliance24 : If this continues on we won't see any more 747s because they use alot of fuel. Unless the 747ADV is fuel efficient??? It would be very very sad.
33 Post contains images Indy : And if the plane ran out of fuel and didn't make it to its final destination no one on board would be sober enough to care
34 Post contains links and images Lightsaber : Very sensible post. Most Mathusians forget that as a resource becomes scarce alternatives are found. And for those paranoid of bio carbon fuels need
35 Lhrmaccoll : I agree with the fact that America is to blame for a hell of a lot (not all) of the economic problems, fuel prices etc. 1: Out of the whole worlds SUV
36 STARalliance24 : Isn't it china??? Or India, never heard of the U.S being the most pollutted country.
37 Lhrmaccoll : No, for population were the figures i were reffeering to. If you look on a pollution map, America is a big red light. China clearly produces more, but
38 Post contains images STARalliance24 : It's okay at least now I know But do you know where canada stands in the pollution map???
39 SATX : I've heard time and again that the US represents roughly 5% of the world's population but produces roughly 25% of the worlds pollution. Who can beat
40 Lhrmaccoll : Indeed. BTW, as far as i know Canada as a sole country produces vewry little pollution per head, but shows up high, as the winds spread pollution in
41 BSU747 : My heart bleeds, come back and moan when you are paying over $7 a gallon, Here in the UK I have just filled my car (Ford Focus) with petrol (gas) and
42 Thelowfarehero : Lhrmaccoll From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 57 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted Fri Aug 12 2005 23:03:14 UTC+2 and read 610 times: I agree with the
43 Post contains images ER757 : Your post was worth way more than .02. That was one of the most well-written, well thought out views on the situation I've ever seen. Welcome to my r
44 Tsnamm : as long as people are willing to PAY for their fuel they can drive whatever they want...as far as mass transit,railroads etc. goes...are you willing t
45 Post contains links Dl757md : All hydrocarbon fuels, synthetic or petroleum, produce water when burned which is what makes up a contrail. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymake/Aud
46 Post contains images SWISSER : that is right on the spot! Still a car running on gas fuel is much less polutant for the environment then a diesel car... I was driving behind a VW p
47 Kykevin54 : The fact? I don't think that America is to blame for the world's economic problems can be called a fact. In fact, in my view, the opposite would be t
48 Post contains links Ivo : Boeing together with Cronus Motors is developing an electric motor for taxiing: http://www.flightinternational.com/A...+prove+electric-drive+concept.h
49 Lhrmaccoll : Hi All, i am not name calling, or targeting the US, just targeting some people's ignorance when it comes to cars and travel. Over here, the Audi 1.8's
50 STARalliance24 : That's totally true!!!!!
51 ATA753 : u r right and wrong at the same time. In chicagoland where I live IMHO SUVs and pickups are good 40% of the cars on the road. Plus even smaller cars
52 KITH : As stated in the Financial Times/NY Times in the last few weeks, the current problem with OIL is the lack of refining capacity. They can pump it all t
53 Post contains links Francoflier : America has for a time now been leading the world's economy, but the thing about being the world leader, is precisely that you lead. What better coun
54 MauriceB : What about props? I mean they can also run on gas or maybe even electricity
55 STARalliance24 : Lets just hope that in at least 50 years from now someone is going to use that invention on bigger aircraft!
56 Startknob : Just two points and one thought that was NOT in this thread up to now: 1. Flying You need an AWFUL amount of energy to speed up a mass. Additionally y
57 Post contains images Francoflier : Ok, I got it: Let the cars use hydrogen (I didn't say it, W did, in his great revolutionnary vision of the future) and the aircrafts can have the bio-
58 Post contains links SATX : Here in the US, non-commercial vehicles on the road actually get worse mileage on average than they did 20 years ago! My list starts with 1984 at 21.
59 Mrocktor : Good argument overall, I would just like to point out that a 20% decrease in fuel energy density does not mean a 20% reduction in range. Range decrea
60 Sebolino : Oh yeah. I forgot that the reserve of oil is infinite in the home of the braves. It all depends on what you cause pollution. In terms of CO2, it's th
61 Tjwgrr : Eventual is the key word here. Presently there is not an economical way to produce large quantities of hydrogen. Plus, storing hydrogen poses all kin
62 Post contains images Tjwgrr : Yeah, Atlanta has plenty of gas stations.
63 B744F : Some people incorrectly think that only when the oil actually starts to run out is when we would need to invest in alternates. Unfortunately, the mark
64 Mrocktor : This view is simplistic and ignores the main reason that capitalism works. People act in their own self interest. As soon as developing alternate fue
65 Post contains links DLPMMM : Just because you hear it "time and time again" does not make it true. The Nazis used this tactic quite adroitly. It's called "the big lie" and if you
66 GoogleBoy : Yeh! quite right. I am the infamous GoogleBoy who started the two posts "Mitigating the Incoming Oil and Airline Crisis" I was quite on the button, w
67 GoogleBoy : I said it and they kicked out my two posts on the subject. Good to see someone else sensible is taking care of business...
68 GoogleBoy : Wow! that's interesting. Bombardier should take note pretty quick!!!!!!!!!
69 SCCutler : ? A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
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