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Sen. Hutchison Proposes Thru-ticket WA Compromise  
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3265 times:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...es/081205dnbuswright.1d352e39.html

Texas Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison yesterday proposed an end to the Wright Amendment's through-ticketing restrictions as an initial compromise in the debate over its repeal. Hutchison has not offered any such legislation, however, and still believes a full study on the impact of the WA's repeal is necessary.

"We could make some improvements to customer service without an outright repeal," Ms. Hutchison said.

AA is opposed to any changes in the Wright Amendment, while WN has said it is open to lifting the through ticketing restrictions as a first step toward full repeal.


I think this is definitely the way to go. Eliminating the through ticketing restrictions is the obvious first step. Let's see how that goes, and then talk about full repeal. I don't think anyone really believes it will be gone in one fell swoop.


"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

Sounds like she might be afraid there are enough votes to repeal the amendment.Otherwise I dont think she would be talking like this. Doesnt her husband have some kind of job with DFW or possibly AA? Cant remember the details on that.

User currently offlineTyphaerion From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 619 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3239 times:
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Quoting Ssides (Thread starter):
AA is opposed to any changes in the Wright Amendment, while WN has said it is open to lifting the through ticketing restrictions as a first step toward full repeal.

Wow, what a suprise, AA is against this move, which would so blatently help WN because of the nature of WNs normal services which includes a stop or two. This would allow you book direct off of WNs website to anywhere in their network for 2 stops or less probably.



For some, the sky is the limit. For us, it is only the beginning... -- Jack Hunt
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 3, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3213 times:

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 1):
Doesnt her husband have some kind of job with DFW or possibly AA? Cant remember the details on that.

Sen. Hutchison's husband, Ray Hutchison, is DFW's principal bond lawyer. While I don't think this really is a per se conflict of interest, I'm surprised it isn't mentioned more often.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7519 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3188 times:

Quoting Ssides (Thread starter):
Texas Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison yesterday proposed an end to the Wright Amendment's through-ticketing restrictions as an initial compromise in the debate over its repeal.

Definitely a step in the right (not be confused with Wright) direction. IMHO, the through-ticketing restriction should have been abolished right after 9/11/01. Not even DCA nor LGA have such a restriction.

[Edited 2005-08-12 16:53:33]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineCjpark From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1248 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3176 times:

"We could make some improvements to customer service without an outright repeal," Ms. Hutchison told reporters at the Texas Transportation Summit in Irving.

She still opposes a complete repeal of the Wright Amendment.



"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3164 times:

I say go for it and watch the connecting pax suck the ever living life out of the low fares DAL would have to offer. Call it an experiment to knock some sense into Southwest about whether they really want all that freedom.

Want a sure bet... Allow this and we'll never hear about a Wright Repeal again. What we will hear about is a Hutchison Repeal from the passengers as they see their low fares available at DAL vanish into thin air.


User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3116 times:

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 6):
I say go for it and watch the connecting pax suck the ever living life out of the low fares DAL would have to offer. Call it an experiment to knock some sense into Southwest about whether they really want all that freedom.

Want a sure bet... Allow this and we'll never hear about a Wright Repeal again. What we will hear about is a Hutchison Repeal from the passengers as they see their low fares available at DAL vanish into thin air.

How would this "suck the ever living life" out of DAL's low fares? DAL would see an increase in O&D traffic sure, but not much in terms of connecting traffic.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3110 times:

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 6):
I say go for it and watch the connecting pax suck the ever living life out of the low fares DAL would have to offer. Call it an experiment to knock some sense into Southwest about whether they really want all that freedom.

Yeah, WN doesn't know what they want, how to run an airline, or how to be profitable. They should defer to you for that advise. Give me a break.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3102 times:

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 6):

Want a sure bet... Allow this and we'll never hear about a Wright Repeal again. What we will hear about is a Hutchison Repeal from the passengers as they see their low fares available at DAL vanish into thin air.

So, is that just a really silly way of saying you're for it? Why not call KBH and tell her you agree?

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 6):
I have a really bad headache...

That's too bad, but could you please stop trying to pass it around?



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineAirlineAddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3089 times:
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Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 6):
I say go for it and watch the connecting pax suck the ever living life out of the low fares DAL would have to offer. Call it an experiment to knock some sense into Southwest about whether they really want all that freedom.

Want a sure bet... Allow this and we'll never hear about a Wright Repeal again. What we will hear about is a Hutchison Repeal from the passengers as they see their low fares available at DAL vanish into thin air.

If this is truly the case, AA should wholeheartedly support the KBH compromise. Less low fare competition for flights out of DAL means higher fares for AA out of DFW.


User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3058 times:

Good, then CO could fly bigger planes from IAH-DAL and get even more connecting int'l pax Big grin

Continental, the only airline to serve DFW and DAL  Wink

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13086 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3023 times:

Sen. Hutchison is proposing with the resonable thru-ticket comprimise for now as to the WA is one that would definetely benefit WN and the passangers on WN especially those connecting to smaller Texas cities they only serve from Love. I think WN would support it as whould the Republican majority in the Senate/House whom espouse less regulation of business.

User currently offlineTi717 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 227 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2980 times:

Quoting Lt-AWACS (Reply 11):
Good, then CO could fly bigger planes from IAH-DAL

Just what DAL needs more 737  Wink



Sir, don't you think we should turn on the runway lights?" "No, that's just what there expecting us to do!"
User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (9 years 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2902 times:

Quoting Ssides (Reply 7):
How would this "suck the ever living life" out of DAL's low fares? DAL would see an increase in O&D traffic sure, but not much in terms of connecting traffic.

Are you under the false assumption that connecting passengers will not absorb the majority of low fares at DAL because of this? Or is it your false contention that hub carriers fares are higher at a hub because they like to gouge locals?

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 8):
Yeah, WN doesn't know what they want, how to run an airline, or how to be profitable. They should defer to you for that advise. Give me a break.

They know exaclty what they want, and they'll get it. More money in the form of higher O&D fares from DAL. What's your point?

Quoting SATX (Reply 9):
That's too bad, but could you please stop trying to pass it around?

I thought I was passing back to you WA clowns. Sorry.

Quoting AirlineAddict (Reply 10):
If this is truly the case, AA should wholeheartedly support the KBH compromise. Less low fare competition for flights out of DAL means higher fares for AA out of DFW.

You're merging two different issues. One of fares, the other of airport cost increases as a result of Wright Appeal and passenger diversion.


User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3496 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2818 times:

Spin, spin, spin.....

My point was that you said:

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 6):
Call it an experiment to knock some sense into Southwest about whether they really want all that freedom.

Weren't you implying that WN does not know the repercussions of what they are requesting in regards to Wright? While you are a genius in your own mind, I think WN has a longer track record of being profitable and being right (no pun intended).


User currently offlineAirlineaddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2734 times:
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Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 6):
Want a sure bet... Allow this and we'll never hear about a Wright Repeal again. What we will hear about is a Hutchison Repeal from the passengers as they see their low fares available at DAL vanish into thin air.



Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 14):
You're merging two different issues. One of fares, the other of airport cost increases as a result of Wright Appeal and passenger diversion.

No, I'm not. Your premise in Reply 6 was that all of the low fare seats from DAL would be taken by thru-fare tickets thus increasing costs for folks who currently fly out of DAL. If this truly happens, then AA would be in a better position because less low fare seats would be available from the Metroplex. Unless AA doesn't price match WN...


User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2698 times:

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 15):
Weren't you implying that WN does not know the repercussions of what they are requesting in regards to Wright?

No genius, I was implying that they do know what they are doing and that lemmings such as yourself don't see the reality of the situation. You're hung up on a false sense of security that you'll see lower fares, when the reality is that you won't. Most Southwest pax are short hop point-to-point where fares are lower, but the connecting pax will absorb those lower fares. There's no way around effectively raising the average fare paid by the DAL customer. I'm sorry it's a very complicated issue for you, I wish I could help you understand how capacity affects pricing but clearly it's not possible.

Quoting Airlineaddict (Reply 16):
No, I'm not. Your premise in Reply 6 was that all of the low fare seats from DAL would be taken by thru-fare tickets thus increasing costs for folks who currently fly out of DAL. If this truly happens, then AA would be in a better position because less low fare seats would be available from the Metroplex. Unless AA doesn't price match WN...

AA won't change a thing and DAL fares on Southwest will increase as a result of connecting seat absorption. Sounds exciting no????


User currently offlineThelowfarehero From Cayman Islands, joined Aug 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2677 times:

You have no ideas what you are talking about....everything you say translates into AA AA AA AA AA. What are they filling your pockets as well to come in here and preach the AA proaganda. Your basis for these obsurd ideas that ticket prices will go sky high due to the thru-fares is absolute trash.


I HAATE AA!
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 970 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2618 times:

>> Most Southwest pax are short hop point-to-point where fares are lower, but the connecting pax will absorb those lower fares. There's no way around effectively raising the average fare paid by the DAL customer.

#1. WN's average "hop" is 600 miles. They aren't just flying DAL-HOU anymore, and two hour flights don't much qualify for short hops. Additionaly, much of WN's growth is in longer sectors that is driving this figure further upward.

#2. Assuming that connecting passengers will absorb lower fares assumes the number of lower fares stays constant. This isn't the case as WN has been adding capacity steadily, with an additional 75 73G on immediate order. WN is also rumoured to be strongly considering aircraft of greater capacity (with better economics) like the 739ER. There are pleanty of options to prevent a scenario you describe.


User currently offlineGift4tbone From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2600 times:

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 19):
>> Most Southwest pax are short hop point-to-point where fares are lower, but the connecting pax will absorb those lower fares. There's no way around effectively raising the average fare paid by the DAL customer.

#1. WN's average "hop" is 600 miles. They aren't just flying DAL-HOU anymore, and two hour flights don't much qualify for short hops. Additionaly, much of WN's growth is in longer sectors that is driving this figure further upward.

#2. Assuming that connecting passengers will absorb lower fares assumes the number of lower fares stays constant. This isn't the case as WN has been adding capacity steadily, with an additional 75 73G on immediate order. WN is also rumoured to be strongly considering aircraft of greater capacity (with better economics) like the 739ER. There are pleanty of options to prevent a scenario you describe.

I agree with you completly. WN is a point to point carrier, not a hub and spoke carrier like ALL the majors. With their ever-growing number of cities/states, there are more point to points, and these points are getting further and further apart.

Also, if WN gets this leeway, then i'm assuming they will instantly increase capacity on most DAL flts. Specifically ABQ, and HOU. Becuase from those cities, you can go almost anywhere in the WN system n/s. Not so much for ABQ, but def anywhere in the southwest/cali region. And HOU is great for the east coast.
Maybe we'll see a return of the PVD-HOU flt.

-Tony@PVD



Top 3 airports: PVD 26.0%(115 flights), PHL 15.6%(69 flights), PHX 12.0%(53 flights)
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2598 times:

I can forsee many one-stop direct flight oppourtunities

DAL-MSY-MCO (and other florida airports)

DAL-JAN-BWI

DAL-BHM-BNA

DAL-OKC-MDW (STL/MCI)

DAL-ABQ-PHX

They would obviously tweak their schedule to allow for as many of these types of flights as possible.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineN200WN From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 784 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

Quoting Gift4tbone (Reply 20):
Also, if WN gets this leeway, then i'm assuming they will instantly increase capacity on most DAL flts. Specifically ABQ, and HOU. Becuase from those cities, you can go almost anywhere in the WN system n/s. Not so much for ABQ, but def anywhere in the southwest/cali region. And HOU is great for the east coast.
Maybe we'll see a return of the PVD-HOU flt.

-Tony@PVD

And don't forget about MSY...the perfect stop for flights to Florida.

I also hope the HOU-PVD flight comes back...Schedule Planning had the timing all wrong on both flights the last time around as neither was available to/from SAT and other points.


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 23, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2552 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR




Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 19):
#1. WN's average "hop" is 600 miles. They aren't just flying DAL-HOU anymore, and two hour flights don't much qualify for short hops. Additionaly, much of WN's growth is in longer sectors that is driving this figure further upward.



Well said, Dfw. It's really quite surprising how many people don't realize this, and still view WN as "that little Texas carrier".



2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineACAfan From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 710 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (9 years 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2340 times:

Why not replace it with a 1500 mile perimiter rule? Allowing through ticketing of course.


Freddie Laker ... May be at peace with his maker ... But he is a persona non grata ... with IATA
25 DfwRevolution : >> Why not replace it with a 1500 mile perimiter rule? Allowing through ticketing of course. 1500nm is virtually all of the U.S., parts of Canada, an
26 ACAfan : Fine lets make it 1000 mile.
27 Meteorologist : I couldn't have said it better myself! Fact of the matter is that is EXACTLY what would happen unless Southwest offers significantly more service thr
28 Apodino : I have tried to avoid this issue lately but I will post something on this one. Hutchison's idea is a good compromise a first step I think should be ta
29 Cjpark : I don't think there will be any action on the WA whether it is a compromise or out right repeal that will not have limits attached to the Love Field M
30 N77014 : That is not a decision the customer makes; rather one made by WN's yield management. All WN wants is equal access to the skies for DAL passengers the
31 FlyingTexan : There is no city in the Southwest system only served from Love. Amarillo (with service to DAL) also has service to 2 points westbound; ABQ and LAS. I
32 Ssides : And, I believe that if the Wright Amendment (or the thru-ticketing restrictions) were repealed, you'd see a non-stop CRP-DAL flight.
33 Boeing7E7 : 600 miles is a short hop. While SWA averages 638 miles per segment for the 737-700 the rest of the industry averages over 1,100 miles for the same ai
34 Post contains images DfwRevolution : >> On the flip side if the Master Plan is not altered and WN expands to where there are only 5 gates available for other airlines would this not open
35 2H4 : Kinda makes you wonder how that 1,100 mile figure would change if the other carriers were subject to the same limitations WN is... 2H4
36 DeltaFFinDFW : I don't understand why you think a CRP-DAL non-stop would happen if only thru-ticketing was repealed. To go anywhere, you would have to connect to a
37 Yyz717 : The WA amendment is nothing more than a restriction of commerce, which results in higher airfares for Americans, and Texans in particular. No "comprom
38 Cjpark : Americans and Texans deserve the right to designate which airports are available for Commercial Traffic and which are not. You said that service shou
39 1MillionFlyer : The wright amendment MUST be repealed, it really is a restraint of trade argument (Robinson Patman act). I have to go to Dallas next week from BNA, I
40 RJNUT : Texas is just so wide open and unregulated in so many of their affaris, its just odd that this one issue has thorns! Very Non-Texan if you ask me!
41 Post contains links FlewGSW : Today's Fort Worth Star-Telegram opinion page http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/opinion/12403865.htm An amazing tale of two airports. "This is a story a
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