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Singapore Airlines Request For Prop. New Aircraft  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14790 times:

SQ send out a RFP for new aircraft

- Ultra long range Aircraft (A345/772LR)
- Medium Range widebodies (B787/A350)
- High Capasity Aircraft (747Adv / A380)

The ultra long range aircraft are for route expansion to the US (more JFK& LAX and new destinations) Apart from buying new 772LR or A345's, leasing additional 345's is seen as a new option.

SQ did not specify any aircraft types in their RFP, will be interesting to see what Boeing & Airbus come up with.


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[Edited 2005-08-15 14:29:49]

106 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 14693 times:

This could be the key "Order of the Year" for either Airbus or Boeing.....a lot of airplanes of various types will be involved.

Isnt this the second time that SQ has looked at airplanes in these categories, about 6 months to a year ago SQ was out shopping for several types and ordered the 773ER but made no decision as to the other types/missions. At that time, I think that SQ said it would be either all-Boeing or all-Airbus, I wonder if SQ is taking the same approach this time around.

You can be sure that both Boeing and Airbus will use their best efforts to secure this order......it will be interesting.


User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 705 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14489 times:

Would this be an all or thing order, or would this be a mixed bag?

What routes would SQ use for 747Adv when they already have A380 serving the routes with most demands? If they're retiring their 744s, bringing in 747Adv (Plus RFPs 787/350 will not reduce fleet types)

And didn't SQ's CEO say they'd rather abuse their 777s rather than ordering the 787 last year? I guese he changed his mind after oil hit another record high eh?

I'd be surprised if they go with 345s again... so if this is an all or nothing order, that might be good news for Boeing.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9191 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14452 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 2):
What routes would SQ use for 747Adv when they already have A380 serving the routes with most demands? If they're retiring their 744s, bringing in 747Adv (Plus RFPs 787/350 will not reduce fleet types)

If Boeing builds the B 747 Advanced, I expect SQ to place a large order. It fits in the gap nicely between the B 777-300ER and the A 380.

The current B 747-400 fleet will remain in service for a while though, I think.

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 2):
And didn't SQ's CEO say they'd rather abuse their 777s rather than ordering the 787 last year? I guese he changed his mind after oil hit another record high eh?

The B 777s will remain in the fleet for many years to come. SQ's CEO was talking about the B 787-3 for short/medium range routes but not the B 787-8.

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 2):
I'd be surprised if they go with 345s again... so if this is an all or nothing order, that might be good news for Boeing.

Doubt it.


User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4056 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14416 times:
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After all the problems SQ has had with Airbus, it seems logical that they will go for Boeings and that Boeing will agressively court them for orders. Any thoughts?

LACA773


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6491 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14414 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 2):
I'd be surprised if they go with 345s again... so if this is an all or nothing order, that might be good news for Boeing.

Well, if it were all or nothing, let's look at it this way:

A340-500 vs. 777-200LR: All indications are that the 772C is the top performer in this segment, unless ETOPS is an issue.

A350 vs. 787: Specific models aren't specified, but the only valid comparisons on price and capability would be between the A350-800 and 787-912. As they are both paper airplanes, it is tough to make a direct comparison, but based upon what we know technically, the 787-912 would probably have at least a slight edge.

747 Advanced vs. A380-800: This is where the real discrepancy will be seen. How much capacity does SIA need? If the 747 Advanced operating economics are truly equal, will SIA be fine with less seating? And will SIA's rumored displeasure with the A380-800 delivery schedule play into this? IMHO, this contest will be the one that truly determines the winner.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14387 times:

A & B probably will go to offer "the right mix" covering all SQ's network requirements.

Each has a portfolio to choose from & probably some "interim" solutions.

Boeing
- 747-400ER, 747Adv
- B787-3, B787-8, B787-9
- B777-200LR, B777-300ER (low density LR version)

Airbus:
- A380-800, A380-900, (A380-800IHW?)
- A350-800, A350-900
- A340-500, A340-600IHW, (A340-500IHW?)
- A330-300 (A330 light?)
- A321 (A322?)

Much depends on SQ's time table, A & B proved to be willing to go far to get SQ is the past. SQ is unlikely to go for a single source (A or B). Playing them out against each other proved lucrative.

Favorites:
- more / bigger / longer legged A380's
- 787-3's to relieve 772 from duty (if 2010 is acceptable..)
- 772LR's (if Boeing is willing to buy all the A340s again..)
- AC A340-500's (simple low cost, short term solution..)


User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 705 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14354 times:

Just a thought...

With A350 coming so close to 772ERs in terms of seating capacity and range, would SQ order them given their current (and growing) 772 fleet? Would there be a need to fill EVERY niche between 200-500 passengers? Same goes for the 747Adv, if you have 773ER and 380 already, would you want to buy a plane just so you have a perfect sized plane for a few routes? Especially when the demand in the airline industry changes from season to season?


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 14268 times:

This data comparing the A350-900 with B777-200ER came from Flight International, a few months ago.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2149006

ATI (Flight Int) comparison 359-772ER, latest available specs:

..............................A350-900.....777-200ER
3-class seating................300...............295
Full load range............7500nm.............7700
Block fuel/seat..............Datum............+30%
Cash cost/seat.............Datum............+18%
MWE/seat....................Datum............+18%
London noise arrival.......QC0.5...............1.0
London noise departure......1.0...............2.0


Giving the high fuel costs & the SQ habit to replace their aircraft long before their technical lifetime is reached, Airbus will probably present SQ a timetable to replace their large 772ER fleet.

Leahy presenting this in Singapore would probably lead to spectacular indoor lightening sightings in the Chicago area..


User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 705 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14138 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 8):
ATI (Flight Int) comparison 359-772ER, latest available specs:

..............................A350-900.....777-200ER
3-class seating................300...............295
Full load range............7500nm.............7700
Block fuel/seat..............Datum............+30%
Cash cost/seat.............Datum............+18%
MWE/seat....................Datum............+18%
London noise arrival.......QC0.5...............1.0
London noise departure......1.0...............2.0

Whether these numbers will be met or not, still remains to be seen. What is the expected date for A359 to enter service? 2012? Boeing might have a 772ER replacement designed and launched by then, perhaps 787-10.

Also, with the number of future 773ERs in the fleet, I don't see SQ would replace their 772s with A350, this would create another stand-alone fleet type within SQ. When all of their 777 pilots could operate their large 777 fleet across all kinds of mission profiles today, why would you want to re-train half of them to fly on A359 when 772ERs is so similar to A359 and serving SQ so well?

[Edited 2005-08-15 17:03:27]

User currently offlineCHI787ORD From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 557 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14115 times:

Quoting Keesje (Thread starter):
The ultra long range aircraft are for route expansion to the US (more JFK& LAX and new destinations

IS ORD on their list for new destinations?


I think SQ will go for Boeing. Like it has already been said, they need some sort of aircraft to the the gap between the normal widebodies and the WhaleJet. Also, as we all know, the 787 has minor cabin improvements (Lighting, windows) that correlates with SQ's philosophy of offering the best possible flying experience.


User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 705 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 13829 times:

Quoting CHI787ORD (Reply 10):
IS ORD on their list for new destinations?

When was the last time SQ flew to ORD? And why was it dropped?


User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13554 times:

Well, I could easily see them ordering 777-200LRs, as they are not all that happy with the A340-500.

User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 13507 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 12):
Well, I could easily see them ordering 777-200LRs, as they are not all that happy with the A340-500.

Source?


User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 705 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13459 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 12):
Well, I could easily see them ordering 777-200LRs, as they are not all that happy with the A340-500.

Until the CEO of SQ comes out public and says "We're not happy with the A340-500", I will not believe that is the case.

However, I do see them replacing A345 with 772LR, due to the fact that 772LR has MTOW which will enable SQ put in a F class product on their SIN-LAX/SFO/EWR routes, 772LR can carry more PAX and cargo, as well as their current large 777 fleet for fleet commonality purposes. (Although the later might be a very small reason for ordering the 772LR)


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13425 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 12):
Well, I could easily see them ordering 777-200LRs, as they are not all that happy with the A340-500.

We know the A345 is inferior to the B772LR - but when have SQ expressed they were not happy with the A345?


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13409 times:

Well, for one, on an aircraft that is supposed to seat 315, they only can have about 180 seats. (due to payload restrictions). With the 777-200LR, they wont have any restrictions and they could have a more profitable 250 seats.

User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13247 times:

Personally, I would be surprised if they order more A345s over the B772LR.

However, I would not be surprised if they order more A380s over the B747Adv. And I'd bet that they will use the A380 delays to talk Airbus into lowering the price further.

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineSNATH From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3247 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13181 times:

BTW, Keesje, when I read the title "Singapore Airlines Request For Prop. New Aircraft" I really thought they were looking for propeller planes! Duh!  drunk 

Tony



Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
User currently offlineNYC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 5796 posts, RR: 47
Reply 19, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13158 times:

Does anyone know the decision day for this order?


That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13136 times:

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 4):
After all the problems SQ has had with Airbus, it seems logical that they will go for Boeings and that Boeing will agressively court them for orders. Any thoughts?

It is precisely for this reason that Airbus will court them heavily; they are on the block for the A-380 delivery delays and the 340-500 issues with SQ so they will be very aggressive with them.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 8):
ATI (Flight Int) comparison 359-772ER, latest available specs:

..............................A350-900.....777-200ER
3-class seating................300...............295
Full load range............7500nm.............7700
Block fuel/seat..............Datum............+30%
Cash cost/seat.............Datum............+18%
MWE/seat....................Datum............+18%
London noise arrival.......QC0.5...............1.0
London noise departure......1.0...............2.0

These are Airbus projections, and unlikely proven to be true when all the shouting is over...Airbus has a history of overpromising and underdelivering on performance. IF they can delivery this type of performance, then yes, Boeing will have it's hands full.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13087 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 16):
Well, for one, on an aircraft that is supposed to seat 315, they only can have about 180 seats.

The A345 has never been supposed to fly such a route with 315 seats.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12805 times:

Whenever he hear that SQ goes airplane shopping, the question that always comes up is whether SQ is going to replace the A345 with the 772LR. There is a very good chance that SQ will replace its A345s.....not because there is anything wrong with the A345s, but simply because the 772LR is a more capable airplane (because it was designed as such) and because SQ is a large 777 operator and it would certainly make sense for SQ to operate the 772LR variant instead of keeping five A345s in the fleet.

Is SQ disappointed with the A345? I dont know, and most here at this site dont know, SQ has not made any annoucement concerning its displeasure with the type. One thing is certain, the A345 allowed SQ to open up nonstop routes from SIN to the US (LAX and EWR) atleast two or three years before it would have been possible with the 777LR which has not yet entered revenue service as of this date. Operating nonstop from SIN to the US was a long-term goal for SQ, and the A345 allowed SQ to achieve that goal. The A345 has served its purpose; SQ operates nonstop to EWR and LAX on a daily basis without issues or operational problems. The question now is whether SQ will decide if it makes sense to move along to 777LR as its ULH airliner.....I think that the answer will be yes for the reasons stated above, and because SQ would like to offer a full F class service on its ultra-long haul flights, plus better operating economics and greater payloads also make the 772LR an attractive package for SQ.

My prediction is that most or all of the new SQ order will go to Boeing (and not because of the A380 delays - although that situation is not helping Airbus at the moment)....I think that we will see SQ order the 772LR and one or more variants of the 787; SQ never really replaced the A310 in its fleet and the 787 is the perfect solution. SQ's plan to "mis-use" 772s on certain routes really did not work out as well as expected and with LCCs popping up all over Asia, SQ needs a smaller, more effecient airliner for regional routes. The 787 can also be used to open up long thin routes out of Singapore - the range and economics of the 787 open up new possibilities for the airline. The big question is the 747A - does SQ really need an airliner bigger than the 773ER yet smaller than the A380....and does it make economic sense to futher complicate the fleet by having another type; thats the question that SQ's management must be struggling with.


User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 12787 times:

Quote:
The A345 has never been supposed to fly such a route with 315 seats.

Well, speaking of Airbus over stating their products, on their website, the A340-500 can travel "9,000nm with a full passenger payload" and a full passenger payload is 313 passengers. (sorry, my mistake, it was not 315).

But.... The SQ can only do that distance with exactly 181 seats. (117y, 64j)


User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2397 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (9 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 12739 times:

Ah, Dutchjet, I agree with you. And it would be really nice to see the SQ livery on the 787.

25 PyroGX41487 : Think about it, though. A340-500 with 315 seats? Sure, the 772LR MIGHT be the better choice as far as pax comfort, reliability and cargo is concerned.
26 Abrelosojos : = Me too!
27 Post contains images Keesje : If future SIN-US travel keeps growing SQ might consider a A380-800LR, comfortably transporting 350-400 passengers & cargo to the big US destinations.
28 SNATH : So, roughly the same as the A345, HOWEVER with higher-yielding F class passangers and lower fuel burn. Tony
29 Keesje : ? No, with the same classes..
30 N60659 : Another very small point with the 772LR. Press reports in the last week have suggested that N6066Z will take off from an Asian city and fly over the P
31 SNATH : Ah, I see. I thought you had taken into account the F class seats. So, how did you come up with the 200 number? The two planes (B772LR and A345) are
32 CHI787ORD : SQ used to fly to ORD on the routing SIN-AMS-ORD pre 9/11. However, the route was not very profitable especially on the ORD-AMS and AMS-ORD sector so
33 Gigneil : Actually, he said they'd rather abuse the A380 than order the 747 Advanced. See above. They've publically stated they would not. The one problem I'm
34 PhilSquares : Just some points from someone at SQ. One problem SQ has with the 345, currently in service is they don't have an F cabin. When SQ ordered the 345, the
35 SNATH : Is there an indication that this is a "winner-takes-all" competition? I.e. is a B787/B777/A380 order out of the question? Tony
36 Dutchjet : Anything is possible, and SQ will certainly make sure that they get the best possible deal from either A or B.......is it winner take all? We dont kn
37 PA110 : Perhaps from the Europe and Australia markets, but definitely not from the North American markets. SQ has a small O&D market, and from the West Coast
38 Post contains images HanginOut : I agree with SNATH, I think that SQ will order the 772LR for ULH, 787s for medium range and the A380 for High capacity. No matter how upset SQ is wit
39 Post contains links Keesje : If you look at the SQ A350 cabin : http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Sin...ages/Singapore_Air_Airbus_A345.gif you can see that only about 40% of the c
40 Dynkrisolo : And the problems associated with the delay, and the delay of informing the delay, and collecting progressive payments as if there was no delay, ... W
41 Post contains links SNATH : (a) We can only assume that SQ will replace some of the Raffles class seats with F class seats. So, even though the plane will have roughly the same
42 Post contains links Kaitak744 : 1. The crew rests on the SQ A340s are on the baggage deck. So the 777-200LR will free up some cargo space. 2. WOW!!!!!!! Singapore air has a new websi
43 Post contains images Trex8 : so why does CIs website show their new GE powered 744s unable to do LAX-TPE??? (or for that matter SFO) that signature interior too heavy?? or too ma
44 PhilSquares : I don't work for CI, so I can't address that issue. I do know SQ does it with their PW4000's all year long with no impact on payload. Actually, the b
45 N754PR : Am I the only one that thought he ment Prop as in a propliner? As for SQ, I doubt Airbus will even bother as whatever they offer them they will only b
46 HZ747300 : But they removed the "Leadership" titles shortly after operating the aircraft! Clearly, they were annoyed.
47 Post contains images EGNR : Didn't the removal of the Leadership titles coincide with the decison to start removal of 'Megatop' and 'jubilee' off the 744 and 772/773 fleets as w
48 HZ747300 : That would be great!!! Can you order GE/PW/RR powerplants on the IL-96? Or is it only the AN's and TU's, still? I was reading that there was a crowd
49 Ikramerica : See my thread on this kind of comment. You can place it there. Do a search for the official flight to long thread, or something like that. NOT roughl
50 Francoflier : Oh, that's for sure man, someone very informed also told me they were going to write 'Piece of Cr%p' instead, to show everyone they were so annoyed w
51 FlyingHippo : I have asked that same question before myself, but I read in this forum that CI decided to load up on cargo between LAX-TPE on one of the two daily f
52 FlyingHippo : Let's just focus on getting the 380 for 1)certified on time, 2) delivered without futher delays, and 3)meet its performance targets then we'll talk a
53 Sq212 : SQ already orderered A380 and options. The same with B773ER. A345 options was dropped early part of year. So at this point, the RFP may likely involve
54 United Airline : The B 777-200s will remain in service for a long time to come. SQ would NEVER operate a 2nd hand aircraft.
55 MIAMIx707 : Now.. what's a 757 doing in Singapore scheme? I see the shot was taken back in 1988 but I never knew they had operated the 757.. It's also the only pi
56 777ER : So when will this possible order be announced?
57 Post contains images Solnabo : (Only?)A380´s gotta have anti-missile sytem when entering US soil, mind U! I´m looking forward to a LR/ER version of the 380. Mike//SE
58 RedFlyer : I know a lot of people, including myself, who would rather fly 17 - 18 hours on a plane non-stop, bypassing a layover. As for cattle-car configuratio
59 SNATH : In general I would agree with you on wanting to get to your destination faster. But, I can actually think of some reasons why people would like a lay
60 Post contains images OHLHD : Me too HAHAHAHA
61 FlyingHippo : Yea... we'll see it just in time for the 2040 Olympics. Whoever is hosting it will order a bunch of them for PR purposes.
62 Ken777 : I thought that SQ picked up some options on the 380 when the purchased the plane. If so then the RFP for the 747/380 may be a very clear signal to A t
63 PyroGX41487 : I just realized that no one really asked for a source for this info... Is there any source for this information?
64 Post contains images United Airline : Could be a strategy to attract a better deal. Who knows? Thought it was dropped after SARS, not 9.11. SQ's B 777s are still very new and they need no
65 FlyingHippo : Here is my prediction on what SQ will order: B777-200LR vs A340-500 WINNER: B772LR - They already dropped the option for A345, I think including it in
66 BoeingBus : I disagree. There is nothing stoping Singapore from having both. This is an airline with a lot of capital and in many instances the 747Adv will best
67 FlyingHippo : Does anyone know the seating SQ plan to have on the A380 (450 seats IIRC)? And how many seats they plan on putting in the 773ER?
68 KL808 : IMHO with regards to the B777LR program, I have my doubts they would go for that. Just to expensive, I think they will keep the A345 and lease additi
69 FlyingHippo : Definitely understand your thinking, KL808. However, 772LR represents such a leap in performance over the A345 in terms of PAX and Cargo, plus SQ's a
70 Post contains links N60659 : Well, by the same token, SQ could lease the 772LR. We know that current carriers like EK and AF which fly the 773ER have leased the majority of their
71 Post contains images QFA001 : FWIW, the RFP details 9+6 airplanes in the 450+ seat class. 2010. I very highly doubt it. The -9 won't come online until 4Q'10. So, it will even long
72 Kaitak744 : Any guesses on numbers? 20+options 787-3 15+options 787-8 or -9 5+optons 777-200LR 10+options 747ADVF 5 A380
73 Keesje : Yes they do, but Airlines are not so hot for the Genx at this moment. China's big three : Air China, China Eastern and China Southern recently select
74 Post contains images Widebodyphotog : While that information is useful for Airbus publicity it really does not tell the whole story from an operators point of view. What has to be thourou
75 Keesje : Nice table, some questions. - Airbus streched the A350-900 to match 772ER seating capasity. In your table the 772ER has 24 more seats, why? - How com
76 Post contains images QFA001 : At least seven customers have picked the GEnx for their A350s. Yet, you seem to think that GE will continue to focus on the A350 instead of trying to
77 Post contains images Widebodyphotog : The floor area still lags behind the 777-200ER by nearly 6% based on what Airbus has given to work with. Also I reduced some seats to add a payload b
78 N328KF : Ouch! Looks like the bubble has been popped on the concept of the A350-900 as a "777-200ER killer." I guess, for those airlines that don't need a lot
79 FlyingHippo : Well, I wouldn't count them out just yet, Airbus has taken market share away from Boeing models in the past (330 vs 767), they might still have a few
80 DAYflyer : True enough. I agree the order will go to Boeing for this reason, plus I think the A-380 delivery delays are a more significant factor for an airline
81 Widebodyphotog : One trick would be to increase the MTOW by 15-20t, but that would also require 80,000lbt + engines, levels that are beyond the planned capability of
82 FlyingHippo : I agree with you 110%. A lot of PAX flights coming in and out of Asia (Especially China, Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and India) would need to double as
83 BoeingBus : When I read this I automatically thought of when the 767 got hammered by the A332. 767 is more efficient than the A330 but airlines thought cargo rev
84 SNATH : QFA001 and Widebodyphotog, You're my two favourite people on this forum when it comes to (refreshingly!) believable technical information. Welcome bot
85 Trex8 : because they have too much on their hands with the A380 and it costs less to develop the A350 as its a "derivative" while the A300/10 replacement, th
86 SNATH : Here's an interesting question. The B787-3 is currently eating up all the orders for A300/B762 replacements (since it's the only new plane out there
87 N328KF : To be sure, A3XX -> A380. You are referring to the A30X.
88 Post contains images Keesje : I did. You obviously didn´t..
89 Post contains images Widebodyphotog : I started to feel a bit guilty for having to allow such a low weight for cargo on the SQ A350-900 example. I decided to be more fair to SQ and conside
90 Post contains links and images QFA001 : Well, it might not be too far away. The "Trent 1100" derivative of the T1000 powering the B787 is claimed to be sized for the 80klb class. That would
91 Keesje : Now we have a comparison between a a B777-200ER with 285 seats a A350-900 with 175 seats out of line, they are supposed to carry the same number of p
92 RayChuang : I think SQ wants to get the 777-200LR. But they'll configure the 772LR very similar to the A340-500 configuration, namely a roomy Raffles Business cla
93 Avalon : Do we? Udo, you tend to defend Airbus planes yet you did not seem to be sarcastic or ironic in your entry above. Do you think the A345 is in fact inf
94 Post contains images FlyingHippo : I'm sure SQ will do the same on the 772LR, nobody is disputing that here But even with the exec economy class, 772LR can still fit more pax and cargo
95 Glom : Indeed we do. It flies further, faster, with a heavier payload, while burning less fuel and being easier to maintain.
96 Udo : No, I tend to defend the truth. And no, I wasn't being sarcastic this time. The B772LR is lighter, burns less fuel, flies faster and farther while ca
97 Widebodyphotog : As I wrote before in reply 77, the A350 simply does not have the payload capacity to make the specified flight time/distance with the same payload as
98 Keesje : A 772LR will likely seat about 200 in SQ 2 class configuration.. (Reply 39, 71) About the first class, the new Raffles seems to do the job, First wou
99 Post contains images SNATH : I'm saving this quote. When EK and SQ (the two premier A345 users right now) both order the B772LR I'll be reminding you of it. Of course, it's also
100 Post contains links and images FlyingHippo : Avalon, I know this is Boeing PR, but perhapse you can use this as a reference --> http://777.newairplane.com/. Also, Widebodyphotog provided a very
101 Keesje : You hit the nail here. 6000NM is the absolute max range. For most airlines Japan-US West Coast, Europe-US West Coast is far enough. For longer stretc
102 Kaitak744 : But unless Boeing agrees to take SQs A340-500s, I doubt they will order 777-200LRs. They have had them in service for only 2-3 years now, and obviousl
103 SNATH : IIRC, Boeing was going to buy AC's A345s, if AC couldn't find another buyer... So, I wouldn't be surprised if Boeing offers the same deal to SQ. Tony
104 Sllevin : Didn't SQ cancel additional options on the A340-500 recently? Steve
105 Widebodyphotog : Actually the distance where there is substantial excess payload after a similar passenger load is 4,750-5,000nm. That is roughly a 10h trip. At that
106 Kaitak744 : Well, might I point out, that the A350 design is NOT finalized by airbus, and the 787 design is. So, Airbus has the potential to stretch or shrink the
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