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A UA 747, N176UA, Repossessed?  
User currently offlineHoya From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 382 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5034 times:

Hello all,

Just read an article today from Crain's Chicago Business, which is about N176UA, a 747 being repossessed. On another thread, don't remember which one, I read that a 747 that was recently given back to lessors will be coming back to the fleet. Is it this 747, or has another 747 been repossessed?

Full article here: http://chicagobusiness.com/cgi-bin/news.pl?id=17449


Hoya Saxa!!
31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4938 times:

How unfortunate an event like this would have to take place. I hate to see the same thing happen to DL, like a 777 being repossessed, or does DL own all their 777s?


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4825 times:

I'm reasonably certain that Delta owns all 8 of their 772s. If I recall, DL was trying to sell their 5 remaining delivery slots, so they wouldn't be forced to put out any more capital for remaining outstanding orders. United's fleet is heavily mortgaged, so a repro here & there is not surprising. Regards.


"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineLitz From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1753 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4612 times:
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Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 2):
I'm reasonably certain that Delta owns all 8 of their 772s. If I recall, DL was trying to sell their 5 remaining delivery slots, so they wouldn't be forced to put out any more capital for remaining outstanding orders. United's fleet is heavily mortgaged, so a repro here & there is not surprising. Regards.

Has DL managed to sell these slots? If not, when are these scheduled to come due?

- litz (who wouldn't mind seeing 13 777s in DL livery)


User currently offline1millionflyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4593 times:

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 2):
I'm reasonably certain that Delta owns all 8 of their 772s.

http://www.delta.com/about_delta/cor...ats_facts/aircraft_fleet/index.jsp

they are owned (financed, not leased), although they make up part of DL's 20 Billion in debt that is causing them so much headache right now.


User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 4591 times:

Quoting Hoya (Thread starter):
Just read an article today from Crain's Chicago Business, which is about N176UA, a 747 being repossessed. On another thread, don't remember which one, I read that a 747 that was recently given back to lessors will be coming back to the fleet. Is it this 747, or has another 747 been repossessed?

From what I hear the plane sat in the desert for all of two days before the bank realized that UA was serious and wouldn't pay more. This aircraft was leased since new and the owner still wanted the 950k a month for it...UA is only willing to pay the market rate of 500k a month. The aircraft will be returning shortly.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Hisham Atallah



-m



[Edited 2005-08-15 19:10:18]

User currently offlineHoya From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4361 times:

Thanks UnitedTristar. Glad to hear UA isn't losing more widebodied aircraft.


Hoya Saxa!!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4147 times:

Gorgeous photo, it's a special aircraft.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineCyberUAL From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3870 times:

where is this plane right now? I think its still in the desert??

User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3775 times:

The aircraft was withdrawn from service on August 5th, and ferried to Marana from SFO on the 8th as part of the lease rejection.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineCVG2LGA From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 624 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3731 times:

does anyone know if and what routes UA flies the B747 domestic?
thnx
DA-



They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3593 times:

cvg,
ua currently flies the 400 r/t sfo-den-sfo sometimes you will see a 400 out of ord to den,sfo and lax but thats in a pinch....



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineSquirrel83 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3564 times:

On deltas site with the fleet list theyt state the following

1Includes 1 B–737–800 aircraft which Delta has agreed to sell to a third party immediately after those aircraft are delivered to Delta by the manufacturer in 2005

Who is that third party anyone know?


User currently offlineDFORCE1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3484 times:

Quoting FlagshipAZ (Reply 2):
If I recall, DL was trying to sell their 5 remaining delivery slots, so they wouldn't be forced to put out any more capital for remaining outstanding orders.

I'd like to see AC pick up some of those slots.


User currently offlineBaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2026 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3471 times:

Once again, United dictating to the lessors what they will pay for their aircraft...
How incredibly arrogant.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3284 times:

I guess UA is playing chicken with the leasing companies. Actually, they are in a fairly strong position with the 744s since there is a very limited secondary market for them. The last thing an airline wants is to be stuck with obsolete aircraft, which is why UA has been so aggressive in renegotiating the leases on the 763s and 744s. The original long term plan was to phase out the 744s and replace them with 772s since ETOPS was extended to allow 2 engine planes on most trans-Pacific flights. The 763s are toast since 787 is on the horizon and 767 are mediocre cargo planes.

User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3254 times:

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 14):
Once again, United dictating to the lessors what they will pay for their aircraft...
How incredibly arrogant.

Actually that is good business, there is nothing wrong with renegoitiating when you have excess capacity and a deal that is not at market rate, I say good for them!

I would think it would be more arrogant to cut the pensions of employees and not try to cut costs elsewhere.


User currently offlineHanginOut From Austria, joined May 2005, 550 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3221 times:

Quoting Baw716 (Reply 14):
Once again, United dictating to the lessors what they will pay for their aircraft...
How incredibly arrogant.

It may not be the wisest way to do it, but it seems to have been a necessary move on UA's part. As UnitedTristar noted

Quoting UnitedTristar (Reply 5):
the owner still wanted the 950k a month for it...UA is only willing to pay the market rate of 500k a month.

I'd have played hardball also if the lessor wasn't willing to budge on their rate.

I'd rather have the lessor upset at me than have to pay an extra 450k a month to keep them happy. Besides, with all of the rumours floating around that Airbus is going to provide aircraft to UA after they leave Ch. 11, they may be getting A380s, in which case having an upset 747 lessor won't matter so much.  innocent 

HanginOut



Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

Quoting HanginOut (Reply 17):
all of the rumours floating around that Airbus is going to provide aircraft to UA after they leave Ch. 11, they may be getting A380s, in which case having an upset 747 lessor won't matter so much.

UA has stated several times they are not interested in Airbus's financing offers. They have no plans in the near future to buy new aircraft.....so far. Right now they are just concentrating on getting the creditors on with the business plan before they can file it with the court. If you look at their past press releases they say that they had to delay the file for the creditors to continue to review the plan.

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineRobK From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

Quoting Squirrel83 (Reply 12):
On deltas site with the fleet list theyt state the following

1Includes 1 B–737–800 aircraft which Delta has agreed to sell to a third party immediately after those aircraft are delivered to Delta by the manufacturer in 2005

Who is that third party anyone know?

Hainan Airlines, B-5116.

RK


User currently onlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1422 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2719 times:

The operational result of this for UA is that they never (re) started the IAD-LAX 744 service on the Aug skd change. They had it in the skd, but actually ended up flying "wingtip" 767 and 320 service to fill in for the lost capacity this month.


Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12061 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 15):
The 763s are toast since 787 is on the horizon and 767 are mediocre cargo planes.

Didn't DL just sell all of their B-767-200s (except N102DL) to Airborne for cargo conversion? The B-767-200/300s seem to be snached up as cargo haulers as fast as they are available.


User currently offlineCandid76 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 731 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2646 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 21):
The B-767-200/300s seem to be snached up as cargo haulers as fast as they are available.

Most of United's 762 fleet has been at Victorville for ages, and some of American's 762s have been stored at Roswell for so long that they have now been sold for scrap. Ansett's 762 fleet also sat in Melbourne for years until a scrap dealer bought them and flew them to Opa Locka. There are also three 762s in Brasil (ex. Transbrasil) sitting there for years.


User currently offlineMtnmanmakalu From Ireland, joined Nov 2004, 515 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2625 times:

Quoting Bmacleod (Reply 1):

How unfortunate an event like this would have to take place.

Unfortunate? If you didn't pay on your car, It would have been repo'd long before 2 1/2 years were up... UA is lucky more A/C they don't own weren't repo'd a long time ago- Now, how about a bankruptcy exit plan and exit, UA??!!! 3 years is ENOUGH!!!



I do, I don't, whatever.......
User currently offlineJumboClassic From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 2540 times:

Guys, let's stick to the topic. Is N176UA back in operation or not?

25 Post contains links and images An-225 : As far as I know, it is back in service. Once I'm at work, I'll check for sure. As for United 767-200s, this is the last photo of one in operation, ju
26 Post contains images CyberUAL : it is still in MZJ. Wonder if UA will be getting any 747 so they can restart LAX-HKG
27 N1120A : The 744 has been scheduled on LAX-IAD lately, though that may not be the actuality That would likely take a back seat to some other service saddly As
28 Laxintl : As per my original reply#9, the aircraft ferried to MZJ on the 8th, and remains there unless if its owner has moved it since. In addition another UA
29 Post contains links and images MD90fan : I thought the aircraft went to their subsidiary Chang-An Airlines View Large View MediumPhoto © Weimeng View Large View MediumPhoto © Je89 W
30 Post contains links ERJ170 : Were these domesticate or international route aircraft? Were they ETOP certified? If anyone is looking to buy one.. check them out here United B762
31 An-225 : 762s haven't been on international routes in ages, they mostly did transcons like JFK-LAX/SFO and pre-9/11 they also flew BOS-LAX/SFO. As far as I can
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