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Palestinian Airlines - Does It Exist?  
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9664 posts, RR: 68
Posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4823 times:
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If so, where/what do they fly? I see some CRJ shots in the database, were these ever delivered?

[Edited 2005-08-15 22:25:38]

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4797 times:

They do exist but do not fly as the Israelis have made the airport unusable.

They have, in the past, used an F-27 and a B727.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4807 times:

This website should be helpful:
http://www.geocities.com/wassch71/palestinian/history1.html

The only route they fly is 2x weekly from Amman Marka airport to Al Arish in Egypt near the border with Gaza on a Fokker 50. They were forced to stop all their other routes ever since Israel bulldozed Gaza airport's runways and destroyed the airport's buildings.

As a result of Israel destroying Gaza's airport, Palestinian Airlines never took delivery of its 2 CRJs.

They had a fleet of 2 Fokker 50s, 2 Dash 8-300s, and a Boeing 727-200 Advanced.

The 727 was donated by a Saudi Prince Waleed bin Talal and it is now stored in Amman Marka Airport.

Both of the Dash 8-300s were sold and are now flying for Swiss airline, FlyBaboo.

The two Fokker 50s were donated by the Dutch government. One of the Fokker 50s is now stored in Woensdrecht, Netherlands with its engines removed while the other one is currently flying the 2x weekly Amman Marka - Al Arish route.

For a while, they leased a Ilyushin Il-62, but I'm not sure from who.

They had plans to buy or lease 3 Boeing 737s (not sure which type).

Regards

[Edited 2005-08-15 23:10:49]


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4781 times:

yes they flew for s hort time until the runway in gaza was destroyed(anyone can confirm?)
they use to fly to FCO and a fewmore destinations... cairo i believe



Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3975 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4672 times:

Just looking at one of the pages from PAL airlines (yes they still have a website).

http://www.palairlines.com/fares.htm

What is COW class?


User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4632 times:

[shameless namedrop mode = ON]

Palestinian Airlines definitely exists - I know the managing director.  

[shameless namedrop mode = OFF]



What is COW class?

Best guess...it's short for 'C' class, one-way...C/OW

[Edited 2005-08-16 01:38:10]

User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2397 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4496 times:

Quoting Vasu (Reply 4):
What is COW class?

As Backfire has pointed out, it is a fare basis code, the first standing for the fare class, in this case "C" followed by an abbreviation of the fare rules, in this case just "OW" for one-way.

COW7NR3M might for example stand for a non-refundable C class one-way fare requiring 7 advance purchase and with a maximum stay of 3 months etc.

Most airlines use different logics to make up their fare basis codes, but this would be a typical example.



Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineGranite From UK - Scotland, joined May 1999, 5577 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4467 times:
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Hi Royal

I have a print of one of their F50's which routed through Aberdeen some years ago. Quality is not the best but might have a go scanning sometime.

Regards

Gary


User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4427 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 2):
One of the Fokker 50s is now stored in Woensdrecht, Netherlands with its engines removed

Maybe a bit off topic, but how does a prop looks like without engines? Never seen this before.

THKS


User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4374 times:

Quoting Vasu (Reply 4):
What is COW class?

The new, descriptive name for economy class on almost any airline  biggrin 



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3975 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4363 times:

Ah right thanks for clearing that up!

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 8):
Maybe a bit off topic, but how does a prop looks like without engines? Never seen this before.

Not too dissimilar to this:


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Photo © Jim Newton



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Photo © Mick Bajcar



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Photo © Sergey Riabsev



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Photo © Manuel Marin - Iberian Spotters



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Photo © Joan Martorell



User currently offlineAMSSFO From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 952 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4298 times:

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 8):
how does a prop looks like without engines? Never seen this before.

Here it is: Palestinian Airlines Fokker 50 SU-YAI without engines stored at WOE and in better days

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Photo © Vincent de Koning
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Photo © Charles Falk



User currently offlineEurostarVA From Bahrain, joined May 2002, 1296 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4259 times:

Prior to Israel's deliberate destroying of the Gaza Airport runway, Palestinian Airlines flew to these cities:

Amman, Cairo, Istanbul, Larnaca, Jeddah, Doha, Dubai, Bahrain (charters).

in 2001 plans were underway for Rome, Damascus and London.

With the intifada 2 erupting in 2001, these plans along with CRJ and DASH 8 deliveries were cancelled.

Hopefully a new era of peace and prosperity will help PF rebuild its network and expanding into new markets. I might add that PF is in dire need of a new livery. The past one is just plain boring and totally lacks creativitiy. Palestine also hopes to recover Qalandia Airport in Jerusalem for its use. That is also occupied territory.



If there is a will, there is a way
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 4158 times:

Quoting BA (Reply 2):
Israel bulldozed Gaza airport's runways

but according to the latest info I got NOT the building. Or have they even destroyed that beautiful building (http://www.gaza-airport.org) ?

Quoting Soups (Reply 3):
the runway in gaza was destroyed(anyone can confirm?)

yes, they destroyed it in its total length and absolutely. And down to its foundations.

Quoting Vasu (Reply 4):
they still have a website

it is the OLD one

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 12):
a new era of peace and prosperity will help PF rebuild its network and expanding into new markets. I might add that PF is in dire need of a new livery. The past one is just plain boring and totally lacks creativitiy. Palestine also hopes to recover Qalandia Airport in Jerusalem for its use. That is also occupied territory

yes, a new era of peace, economic recovery and prosperity is what has to be hoped for. The idea with the airport of East Jerusalem sounds interesting, but before that even can be considered, the various problems about WestBank and EastJerusalem need to be settled. -- The Jerusalem Airport might also be of touristic value. While I have problems to see touristic attractions of Gaza !


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4120 times:

Quoting Azstar (Reply 14):
blow up

the Israelis destroyed the runway, but to the best of my knowledge left the airport-building unscared undamaged. And as far as I know, no airplanes were at the airport at the time. The only airplanes blown up have been some Iraqi Airways airplanes at Baghdad Airport which were BLOWN UP by the US-occupation-forces .


User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1808 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

Not to mention those cedar jets in Beirut  Wink


Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineAzstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 630 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4105 times:

You don't know your history too well, do you ME AVN FAN? I guess you forgot about the dozen 747's or so that were blown up at Beirut Airport in the 70's.I guess you also don't know about the fully loaded Pan Am 707 that was at the gate in Rome when Palestinian terrorists rolled hand grenades down the aisle and destroyed the plane, and passengers onboard. And by the way, how about the TWA plane that was hijacked, the pilot murdered and pushed out the window by Palestinian extremists? The list goes on.There's probably a lot you refuse to acknowledge.

User currently offlineWassch71 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2005, 208 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

For more on Gaza Airport's current status, the following reports from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4449461.stm
The commute from El-Arish airport in Sinai to Gaza is apparently difficult, rehabilitating Gaza Airport is going to come up sooner or later.
Let's hope the best for Gaza Airport and Palestinian Airlines.

[Edited 2005-08-17 02:14:44]


MEA...Like No Other
User currently offlineAeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1610 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4045 times:
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Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 12):
Palestine also hopes to recover Qalandia Airport in Jerusalem for its use. That is also occupied territory.

How can you recover something you never had? I believe the airport dates to the British era. After the 1948/49 war the airport area was occupied and annexed by the Jordanians. Then, in the 1967 war the Israelis occupied the area. In 1993 the Jordanians signed a treaty ending all claims to the West Bank.


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (9 years 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3980 times:

Quoting AeroWeanie (Reply 17):
How can you recover something you never had? I believe the airport dates to the British era. After the 1948/49 war the airport area was occupied and annexed by the Jordanians. Then, in the 1967 war the Israelis occupied the area. In 1993 the Jordanians signed a treaty ending all claims to the West Bank.

Regardless of under what sovereignty the land was under. The fact remains is the land is claimed by Palestinians and that the Palestinian people have NOT relinquished claims for the West Bank nor do they ever plan to.

The Palestinian National Authority claims all land occupied by Israel in the 1967 war with the exception of the Golan Heights which belongs to Syria. This has been their official policy since the Oslo Accords.

The goal of the PNA is to create a Palestinian state based on Gaza, West Bank, with East Jerusalem as its capital and to continue to demand for the right of return of all Palestinian refugees.

If you want to talk about history, the fact is everything that is now Israel was once Arab land inhabitted by Arab populations. Throughout history, the Palestinians have been under occupation. Until the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1918 following their defeat during WWI, the land along with most of the rest of the Middle East was under Ottoman occupation. Then the British came and occupied the land and opened the doors to virtually unlimited Jewish immigration against the wishes of the Arab inhabitants.

Now let's talk about West Bank. Following the 1948 war, West Bank was formally annexed by Jordan and therefore came under Jordanian occupation. King Abdullah (the grandfather of the current King Abdullah II) of Jordan had his eyes on the West Bank and Jerusalem since the British mandate and that's precisely why he was eager to keep a hold of it and take control of it.

In the case of Gaza, it was never ever formally annexed by Egypt. Egypt regarded it as a part of Palestine and never ever made any claims on it, they were simply administering it, in essence, a protectorate status. This remained true all the way up until Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser's death.

Anyways, this is getting off topic.

Now about Gaza airport, more than just the runway was destroyed. Israeli fighter jets bombed and destroyed the radar station.


Getting back to the issue of Palestinian Airlines, here is one of their two CRJs which they never took delivery:

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Photo © Henry Jr Godding
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Photo © Felix Sieder



I am not sure to what airline they were delivered to.

Here is one of their two Dash 8-200s which they DID take delivery of and were brand new aircraft:

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Photo © Darcy Stevens
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Photo © Caz Caswell


Both were sold and are now flying for Swiss airline, FlyBaboo.

The Fokker 50 was posted above and they had two of them, both donated by the Dutch government. One is currently flying the 2x weekly Al Arish - Amman Marka route while the other is stored in the Netherlands as I mentioned earlier. Both of these aircraft are still owned by Palestinian Airlines.

Here is a shot from the website of their single 727-200 Advanced donated by Saudi Prince Waleed bin Talal:


It is currently in storage in Amman Marka, although it is still owned by the airline.

So at the moment, Palestinian Airlines owns 3 aircraft although it is only utilizing one of them.

Now that Israel is pulling out of Gaza, let's hope Palestinian Airlines emerges to what it once was once the airport is renovated.

[Edited 2005-08-17 04:04:41]


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
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