BNAflyer78 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 258 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 32093 times:
Frequentflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 736 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 31877 times:
So sad... Most victims are from Martinique it seems
Scotland1979 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 546 posts, RR: 13 Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 31638 times:
Yeah, it is a messy month of August
Heard the news on CNN - Columbia jet down in Venezuela... boy, not again!!
Air France, Helios and now Columbia....
Give my regards to all victims and their families/friends
Frank
Jesus said "I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me" - John 14:6
Komododx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 31576 times:
West has had many incidents in Colombia. A few months ago, some days before the ADZ (San Andres) crash, one of their Mad Dogs had problems on approach to MDE. A/c had no operational slides and people had to jump off. Crew did not help at all in the evacuation and all passengers had to walk to the terminal. I think West is going nowhere now.
Colombian Aerocivil fears there will be no survivors.
AirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 852 posts, RR: 3 Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 31297 times:
PARIS (Reuters) - All passengers died when a West Caribbean airliner crashed on Tuesday near Venezuela's border with Colombia, France's civil aviation authority said.
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"All the passengers are from Martinique. The 153 are dead," a spokeswoman for the DGAC civil aviation authority said.
Earlier, officials said 152 passengers and crew were aboard the flight.
The plane was en route from Panama to the French Caribbean island territory of Martinique when it went down after suffering from engine failure, Venezuelan officials said.
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3593 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 31032 times:
Flight WCW708 PTY-FDF, 151 pax, 8 crew, pax mainly tourists from Martinique with French citizenship
WCA operates three MD80:
MD81 HK-4302 c/n 48027 ff 1981 ex COA
MD82 HK-4305 c/n 49237 ff 1984 ex US Airways
MD82 HK-4374 c/n 49484 ff 1986 ex COA
Apparently it was the latter that has crashed
WCA had it AOC suspended for two weeks a couple of weeks ago because of documentation problems. This is from ASN:
02 JUL 2005 West Caribbean Airways temporarily suspends operations
The Colombian airline West Caribbean Airways temporarily suspended its operations after Colombian authorities grounded the MD-80 fleet of the airline reportedly because of non-compliance with an airworthiness directive. The AD ordered the operator to install fire retarding insulation material.
One of their LET410 HK4146 crashed on March 26, 2005, killing 8.
TAN FLYR From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1847 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 30926 times:
Very sad..It seems like over the years (last 25-35) August is not the best month for aviation. Crashes have seemed to bunch up in three's and either at the beginning or the end of the month ( a few days either side of August also).
From the early reports on this one..something seems real strange about both engines failing..Very Rare. Perhaps contaminated fuel??
May God Bless the victims in Greece and Venezuela.
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 30834 times:
Hi!
I must agree that this month has been really unusual and in someways disturbing, I don't know if it's because it's summer holidays ( Christmas accidents are also very disturbing moments... ) but during a few moments that we might lose our brightness we thing that suddenly the world is falling apart. Anyway with this latest accident, again comes to my mind how airlines are working their tech., safety, tranning issues with their operationality.
Regards
Vunz From Netherlands, joined Jun 2001, 360 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 30816 times:
What a lousy August
25 Delta717: CNN.com now reporting 160 feared dead. 152 passengers, 8 crew. God rest their souls.
26 Komododx: Reuters is confirming that indeed there are no survivors. May their souls rest in peace. http://today.reuters.com/news/newsAr...IDST_0_NEWS-CRASH-VENE
27 Pilotaydin: i dont think there's been a streak of disaster like this that i can recall. I don't know the cause of the crash, but CNN reports double engine trouble
28 Bongo: In terms of fatalities, it is the worst accident in 2005.
29 MEA-707: Stirling, I think it's optional illusion that it's a high wing Dornier 328jet-like configuration. If you compare the wreckage with the MD-80 pictures
30 AirGabon: 4 crashes in a month: Air France, Tuninter, Helios, West Caribbean...
31 Komododx: The engine clearly looks like an MD-8X. The colors also resemble West's. Stefano
32 VivaGunners: What a sad period, all these fatalities again... terrible. May their souls rest in peace.
33 EZEIZA: What a terrible streak RIP to all involved and let's hope this is the last accident! According to CNN Latam. there are no survivors, and they are also
34 Samair: and we all thought it couldnt get any worse R.I.P
35 Komododx: Caracol Radio in Colombia just released the crew list. Only 4 crew: Pilot, co-pilot, and two F/A's. Stefano
36 MaverickM11: I saw the same thing which confused the hell out of me since it looked like an F-50, not an MD-80.
37 Avek00: I believe I actually SAW the accident plane taxiing last night while sitting onboard my delayed CM PTY-GYE flight. Creepy...
38 Luisde8cd: Venezuelan SAR personel announce that they have just found both black boxes.
39 CV747: What on earth is going on? First the AF 340 Toronto, then the ATR in Italy, Passenger Helicopter crashes between Helsinki and Tallin, Helios in Greece
40 Hardiwv: Very efficient work from the part of Venezuela's SAR staff. A big credit for their excellent and quick work. Rgs,
41 Killjoy: A Scandinavian MD-80 crashed in a field after takeoff from Arlanda in the 90's, when both engines ingested ice from poorly checked wings. IIRC everyo
43 777DAD: This is really starting to get a little bit eerie. God Bless to all of those who perished in every case. Sincerely, 777Dad
44 KC135TopBoom: FoxNews is also reporting 160 killed, but they say 153 passengers and crew of 7. They are also reporting this airplane is the MD-81, not the MD-82. No
45 Travlinman: God Bless the victims and their families
46 Jorge1812: It's normal. The world air traffic increases daily and the number of crashed planes remain nearly the same. Experts said few years ago that with that
47 Orion737: Only 2 flight attendants?? Shouldnt a MD82 carrying 153 assengers have more than 2 flight attendants?????????
49 Luisde8cd: The worst accident in Venezuela occurred in the same Zulia state as this crash. A Viasa DC9-32 flying Maracaibo-Miami crashed seconds after take off
50 FlyATRs: Bad timing for my first post on airliners.net, sorry for that... This is indeed a tragic month but remember this is also the peak for air travels in t
51 SNATH: Crap. And the ironic thing was that we all breathed a sigh of relief when everyone survived the AF crash... little did we know what was going to follo
52 EZEIZA: Hola Luis, Seems like a very similar (high) death toll
53 AirRyan: Former NTSB guy on FOXnews said that he heard that the pilots reported problems with BOTH engines, which of course greatly complicates the situation a
54 FlyATRs: The ATC reported a rate of descend of 7 000 ft per minute...
55 Shamrock350: Very sad. I hope this is the last of the weird crashes this month, plus I'm going on holiday in two days. May the victims rest in peace.
56 CV747: Did the ATR not loose both engines too? Contaminated Fuel?
57 2travel2know: The plane departed PTY? I know there are charters from FDM/PTP to PTY a couple of times per year, but didn't know they used West Caribbean. The panama
58 SRT75: All rank speculation here (admittedly), so don't jump all over me. Picture in Post #31 looks like pilot (to his credit) found a relatively open field.
59 Orion737: I still would like to know how a plane as long as the MD82 and carrying a load of 153 passengers is allowed to operate with 2 cabin staff? Surely this
61 DC-10 Levo: BBC says there were 8 crew members onboard. DC-10
62 Komododx: Since the pictures have been taken off the thread, here are the links: http://noticiero.venevision.net/ http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4156
63 Luisde8cd: The plane crashed in a ranch near the town of Machiques in Zulia State. Machiques is known as the cattle capital of Venezuela, there are many cattle r
64 EZEIZA: From what I've seen on CNN Latam, it was raining, but it wasn't anything unusual (no high winds, etc.), so some experts interviewd are ruling out wea
65 Orion737: 8 crew, more like it! Good old Aunty!
66 LTBEWR: First of all, our condolences to the family and friends of those whom were killed in this flight. I would question fuel contamination as wouldn't that
67 Tolosy: According to lefigaro.fr most of the passengers were french (from la Martinique). The french president has expressed his condoleances to the familly a
68 A3204eva: It's a very bad month for major aviation accidents
69 Spacecadet: From what I've seen on CNN Latam, it was raining, but it wasn't anything unusual (no high winds, etc.), so some experts interviewd are ruling out weat
70 2travel2know: The passengers were a holiday group which had stayed at the Playa Blanca Decameron Resort (site of the Rio Hato Aerodrome), 140Km Southwest from PTY.
71 SNATH: Southern Airways DC-9-31 in Apr 1977. 63 fatalities (+ 9 on the ground), 22 people survived. http://www.aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19
72 WiLdmanVzla: That's terrible... I'm really sorry for the people and the relatives of that plane, as the same as the Hellios' flight. *******
73 SATL382G: It's happened, Republic had an incident a while back. Shows how important the checklist can be. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20001214X427
74 Tavong: Hope all those Souls rest In peace. Gus SKBO
75 RCS763AV: Its Colombia, and it was West Not columbia Airlines or anything.... Wow! Crappy week! But most have been aircraft failures...gosh maintenance is gett
77 MGA: q kgada.... It all happens at the same time...
78 Theredbaron: Exactly what I was Thinking !! May all Rest in Peace... P.D. its 1985 all over again !
79 ANITIX87: I was reading an article on this, and we always talk about how bad reporters are. Check this quote out..."West Caribbean is based in the Colombian cit
80 Henpol747: What a crap of a month for aviation May their souls rest in peace!!
81 Komododx: Wow, next thing you know they'll say the MD's are Chinese made. I wish they would get it right. Not to be picky but the a/c that crashed was actually
82 Tsaord: may they rest in peace. this is not making me feel good about my first plane ride coming up~!
83 Komododx: I'm not feeling good about flying next saturday. Will do the DUB-JFK-MIA route on EI/AA. EI had a near miss some days ago in BOS on takeoff. Not a go
84 Pilotaydin: it's weird....this pattern of accidents in 3 almost always holds true.....
85 A340Spotter: Saddened by the loss of lives this week, this month is unfortunately doing it's best to impersonate 1985 (DL, JL, etc.)... Also saddens me to lose an
86 IDAWA: Well, in reality some MD-80s ARE Chinese made....they were built under licence by SAIC. I-DAWA.
87 Viasa: The crashed MD-80 had wear the full West Aruba colors. Was it a West Aruba flight or West (Colombia) flight? RIP
88 ETStar: Looks like this is one of those weeks or months where all goes crap. Remember in 96 there was this rash of crashes etc... they all seem to come batche
89 DFORCE1: Here's another one to add to the list, but this one is military and didn't end in tragedy (thank God): Canadian Forces jet crashes in Quebec Last Upda
90 BA: So strange how we run through many years without many crashes at all and then in a period of a month, you have several crashes... So sad. May they all
91 Vsa340: Do you think that pilots concentrate so much, trying not to have an accident after a crash, that they end up having one themselves? Thanks Jamie
92 BR715-A1-30: Rest In Peace... My condolences go out to the families.
93 MD11junkie: It is being said that 112 passengers out of the 160 in the MD-82 (152 + 8) were kids between the ages of 8 and 12... sad... really sad Gastón
94 Lsgg: Already nearly 300 people killed in a/c crashes this august, and we are only in the middle of the month ! Incredible... so much in two weeks... My com
95 Tomys: Aviation God is having some time off indeed Too many aircraft disasters recent days...
96 Samuraike: I hope this is going to stop now!My condolences to the families.
98 VS773ER: Oh, but in top place of the news today; Madonna broke a nail in a horse riding accident! (This planet has some major issues)
99 Lamedianaranja: I know the feeling. We're flying a Fokker50 AMS-LUX tomorrow... I feel so sorry for all those people who died and especially for their relatives. The
100 Airboeing: Paix à leur âme. Martinique is a small island of 400000 people, so everyone knows someone who was in the plane. RIP to the Colombian crew.
101 Ntrz: it is really sad that all these planes went down in one week.....
102 Alberchico: Agreed. My condolences to the families of those affected. Truly sad........
103 Morvious: Yeah, although this is the 4th civil one withing 2 weeks.
104 AIHTOURS: My thoughts are with everyone involved in this tragic event. Ryan
105 FLAIRPORT: me too...I have a flight on Tuesday and it is really important becasue I start college then! In all seriousness, did any of the networks mention terr
106 Luisde8cd: More details: -When pilots reported both engines out, the also reported that the radar was malfunctioning. -Noise-reduction hush kits had been install
107 B741: First the A340 then S-76, 737, AH-47, MD-80, F-18 and numerous GA accidents. Truly a sad two weeks.
108 Chiguire: I just had a very bad (business) day, come home and hear that ! May God Bless the victims. The plane was an Avensa plane operated for VIASA...but anyw
109 DAL767400ER: Very sad to hear that. May the victims RIP . Btw. gotta love the media again. German n-tv.de now has a picture as the header for the story that clearl
110 Luisde8cd: ETOPS issues maybe... Also I don't recall any west-east airways north of Venezuela and Colombian coasts. Saludos desde Caracas, Luis
111 RICARIZA: At this point I am not sure if they should continue to offer their services.
112 Luisde8cd: If you look closely, to the left of CO's counters you can clearly see West Caribbean's counters. So, yes the picture is related to the incident. Salu
113 DAL767400ER: Only thing I can see is a -West, which can mean anything. "Continental" is the first name that the eye catches. But anyway, better not take this OT.
114 Chiguire: I don't think ETOPS....they could at least be 60 minutes away from land with that aircraft, and that's enough to make is the shortest way. But do you
115 Kilavoud: Chiguire check it by yourself on GCM : http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=p...STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE= The route was correct, only slightly
116 EZEIZA: yeah, I saw the "breaking news". I can´t believe that Madonna's minor injuries are news at all, especially in a period when so much is going on in t
117 Chiguire: Well....slightly ? About 75-100 Kilometers.... ! But this will probably be nothing of interest. There will be a logical reason for that.
118 EZEIZA: From what Argentine newspaper Clarin is saying, they entered Venezuelan air space and requested emergency landing in Maracaibo because of problems in
119 Grimey: I was thinking the same, I came home from work and turned on Sky news and it was all about Madonna. They even had Madonnas doctor on the phone tellin
120 Lumberton: This article describes a wittness saying that the plane fell like "a ball of fire", which would seem to imply that the aircraft was on fire. (quote) "
121 FLAIRPORT: but the 3rd with fatalities. I also noticed that all but 1 major accident in 1985 (whole year) were fatal and that the 3 in August occured on Aug 2,
122 Mrocktor: Witnesses always see fireballs when airplanes crash. I'd wait for actual findings (even preliminary) before speculation. Eye witnesses are completely
123 Tomys: Both engine failure, might this be fuel feed problem?
124 Hardiwv: Why did they include a "technician" and a "dispatcher" as part of the flight crew? I think this is very unusua practice...any specific reasons??? Jus
125 Legacy135: This can be various. -It might be fuel contamination -It could be defective fuel indications in conjunction with incorrect refueling, so running out
126 RICARIZA: I heard on the local news (in Miami) that the plane had many problems in PTY before departing, maybe that is why they had them on board, maybe to che
128 Legacy135: If we do fly to a destination we do not regularly serve and do not have a technician on site, or not having a contract with a local company to take c
129 Luisde8cd: Maybe they needed a dispatcher to operate the flight Martinique-Colombia. Since it was a charter, they dont have that ground crew in FDF. Are you sur
130 Hardiwv: This would be very unwise... Tks for your excellent explanation (including reply 125). Rgs,
131 Wimpycol: I'm so sad... what a sad news I really can't believe it... I saw this baby last 7 july couldn't believe my eyes and take a nice last shot.... this is
132 ZakHH: According to German news station n-tv, the co-pilot was 21 years of age.[Edited 2005-08-16 23:27:56]
133 ZKSUJ: Very Very bad last few days in fact a bad month for Aviation. My Thoughts with the family, friends and loved ones of the deceased at this time. May th
134 Allstarflyer: I'm not sure how other international airlines work, but according to FAR's here, it's 1 FA for seating from 19 seats to 50, and then an additional FA
135 Alessandro: Here´s a list of the names of the Colombian crew, http://www.md80.net/yabbse/index.php/topic,2121.msg6458.html#msg6458 Rest in peace...
136 Fpofllflyboi: There is a saying that things like death usually happens in 3's, so to speak. Hopefully this is the last commercial crash for a VERY long time.
137 Monteycarlos: In our safety management systems class here at uni, our teacher who happens to be an Aviation Psychologist and has extensive experience in air crash i
138 RICARIZA: A picture of the crash: This has been a very sad day...
139 Xr8FordGirl: Oh no not another one My condolences to the families of the crash victims
140 Litz: The saddest thing about the Southern DC9, was that he MADE the landing, pretty much dead-center on the highway. Unfortunately, the wings were wider t
141 COAMiG29: My condolences to the famalies and all involved this has been a sad month for aviation. let me know if it is too early to ask this because i really wa
142 Shawn Patrick: My heart goes out to all these victims. Very sad.[Edited 2005-08-17 04:18:25]
143 Xr8FordGirl: COAMIG29 the news is saying engine failure
144 MD80fanatic: The stabilator angle suggests airspeeds more along the lines of a normal TO or landing (about 8 degrees UP). This is important because the stabilizer
145 EZEIZA: Yeah, I heard that too, although they say he had plenty of experience despite his young age. I belive they mentioned something around 1000 hrs. I'm n
146 AeroVodochody: May god bless their souls and may they rest in peace. My thoughts go out to the families and others affected. AeroVodochody
147 Starlionblue: The Gottröra incident. No fatalities. One girl broke her back and was paralyzed for life. Not much of a diff in any case. The -82 has more fuel capa
148 TACAA320: I got the following info from www.wca.com.co :"WEST atravesaba por una etapa de crecimiento, apuntando a un mercado más internacional, afianzando sus
149 AR385: I do not believe in that idea that crashes come in three. I think it's just supersticious crap Having said that, how is it possible to lose both engin
150 EZEIZA: could the weather affect the gliding? Maybe sudden wind changes? saludos
151 Macc: its odd. this mornings article on orf.at about the crash: - accident occured 1 hour into the flight - most pax were caught sleeping (yeah, how do you
152 Sm777: For those who believe in Numerology, "8" is the number for disasters, natural calamities, crashes etc. Maybe that's why its no coincidence that most c
153 Trekster: Im trying to think why the plane seems to have landed so hard on the ground. Even with engines out, he must of been pretty high, and would have been g
154 Komododx: Yes. 8 is my lucky number, and it also is a lucky number in China. It's all just superstition. Anyway, Colombian newspaper El Tiempo is saying this m
155 A5ecretagenda: hi, just heard on Reuters and BBC that the local farmers saw the plane in flames BEFORE it crashed...
156 Komododx: On several Latin American news media there are also reports that farmers heard a loud explosion followed by (what I assume) a very loud thud sound whe
157 CPDC10-30: On this crash in Venezuela, 152 passengers in a MD80 ? Gosh, that must be cramped seating ... isn't the US standard pretty much around 138 people ? I
158 Mrocktor: Thats the hard part, I'm guessing. mrocktor
159 Luvflng: This is a 7th Freedom Right. Airline from Country A flies between countries B and C without stopping in A. -luvflng
160 Komododx: Yes but it has already been cleared that the a/c had been chartered in Martinique. Stefano
161 2travel2know: A somewhat related fact between Martinique and Panama. Most of the 25,000 people which died trying to build the French Panama Canal in Colombia (Panam
162 Komododx: Not only the Panamanians but the whole world in general. When the Helios a/c went down, newschannels (in Ireland) had continuous coverage for the most
163 B757200: Remember that routes are flown according to airways, navaids (included in a flight plan) and vectors given by ATC, depending on traffic and weather c
164 AR385: When there is a crash, you will always find that an important number of people say the aircraft was "in flames". I don't know why this happens but un
165 EZEIZA: What I saw was a witness saying he saw the plane having fire from the right engine. I agree that witnesses always see fire and explosions but this gu
167 A5ecretagenda: in response to reply 164, I'm well aware that people are all too easy to exaggerate, but it does make it slightly easier to comprehend why the plane w
168 Legacy135: We've just been discussing this issue today on our E135 flightdeck. Doing an emergency descent, meaning that we bring the plane back to a speed of 25
169 757MDE: ColOmbia West was actually quite an Airline in the beginning, prices were ok, service was good and they had no incidents nor any problems with safety
170 Spacecadet: Witness reports are always specific, that doesn't mean they're correct. Anyway, this accident apparently happened at 3AM in driving rainstorms - how
171 DC10Heavy: Souls lost ? the reports have placed the death toll at 160, I was not aware that an MD-82 could accomadate that many paxs.. Any updated numbers ? Pray
172 Aviation: Hi all, These crashes recently have been very random so many in such a small period of time is very strange, let all the victims rest in peace Anyway
173 Starlionblue: It was "safer" but by any count all years are very very very safe. 1000 deaths are of course always 1000 deaths but compared to the enormous amounts
174 Celticmanx: Based on the fact of the conditions around and a little of my imagination, I'll throw a guess. "Both engine flameout" and apparently one came very clo
175 EZEIZA: especially when you take into account the fact that on road travel 1000 deaths probably happen every day, is not every few hours! regarding the 580 s
176 Komododx: Colombian President Alvaro Uribe met last night with the AeroCivil (Colombian aviation authority) and an extensive and thorough investigation into Wes
177 Mika: I dont mean to be a wise ass but isnt the correct term for the MD80 engines, turbofan engines? I made an essay about jet engines in high school and d
178 Jeb94: There is a very narrow arc with the MD-80 in which an uncontained blade seperation can pass through the fuselage into the other engine. Its not a like
179 Chiguire: According to a graphic by Venezuelan Newspaper "El Universal" the period between the failure of the first engine and the second was 45 Minutes ! If yo
180 Starlionblue: You are right and wrong. The DC-9-80 series has turbofans. Modern military jets also have turbofans. A turbofan is any jet with a ducted fan that has
181 Legacy135: So far correct, but the PERFECT answer you've received from Starionblue About the idea to restart the engines again by diving the aircraft with more
182 Legacy135: I do agree with you. I have at least some serious doubts about. Imagine where the first engine would have failed, 40 or 45 minutes before the crash.
183 Aviation: Hi, Your totally right when you say this is a very very very small amount of accidents in contrast to how many people fly each year and would like to
184 Semsem: Apparently the plane was retired by Continental Airlines in 2005 and was parked in the California desert before West Caribean bought it, probably very
185 CM767: The more I learn about this, the more anger I have towards the governments and authorities that allowed this airline to operate again. I imagine if th
186 D5DBY: hi why was the emergency descent rate 7000feet/min? even with both engines out, this is way to fast... and descending this fast to restart the engine'
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