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Bad Days For Aviation  
User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 18
Posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6376 times:

Hey everyone, I was looking at the forum and at the news and it called my attention the number of incidents/accidents that are being reported.

1. Military airplane makes belly landing in the US. (Don't have further info)

2. an MD-82 from Panama to Martinica crashes in Venezuela

3. Helios 737 crashes


The first one had no casualties, which the other two did had. My prayers goes for all the dead people and hope they all RIP.

It's already hard to listen that one accident happened, but to listen that it was not only one but a few it's even harder.

Also, the Air France A340 was not long ago too (no casualties fortunately). Which is making accidents frequent.

Anyway, I hope we don't have to listen about another one.

Cheers

Alonsou


KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6357 times:

The year 2005 is another 1985 as far as air accidents go.

User currently offlineHenpol747 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 588 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6357 times:

Plus the ATR crash in Italy, and the chopper crash in afghanistan,

What a crappy month!!

 Sad

Ya parenle cabrones!!



Vive la France! ¡Viva México!
User currently offlineKilljoy From Finland, joined Dec 1999, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6303 times:

And Copterline in the Baltic Sea.

User currently offlineDFORCE1 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6264 times:

*Another one to add to the list....

Canadian Forces jet crashes in Quebec
Last Updated Tue, 16 Aug 2005 11:04:11 EDT
CBC News
SAGUENAY, Que. -- A Canadian Forces CF-18 fighter jet crashed in Quebec at 8:40 AM Tuesday, but the pilot ejected safely.

Col. Yvan Blondin of CFB Bagotville has confirmed that the pilot, Colin Marx of Dartmouth, N.S., has been rescued and is being examined in hospital as a precaution. Marx has been with the Armed Forces for 12 years but had arrived at the base only a month ago to train as a fighter pilot, said Blondin, the base commander.

Cause of the crash is not known at this time.


User currently offlineCasa235-300 From Spain, joined Jul 2002, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 6179 times:

Hi

I'm also very sorry today

Today 16th August 2005 crashes a Puma helicopter from the Spanish Army in Afghanistan killing the 17 Spanish militaries on board. We don't know if it was an accident or an attack.

We all pray for all the dead people and their families

Very bad situation for the aviation these days

Please no more


User currently offlineKeta From Germany, joined Mar 2005, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 6157 times:

And yet another one...

Spanish helicopter crash in Afghanistan - 17 killed
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/...;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

This is being a sad month.  Sad
With all the development on airplanes, how can so many accidents happen? Since three weeks ago, we are watching a new crash every week. That's too much, for sure. Also, the crew is supposed to be trained better than before. In the Venezuelan crash it seems like an engine went down; the pilots are supposed to handle this situation with normality. Of course, while time goes by we will know what really happened in this accident. But I still ask myself how can this happen.  Sad



Where there's a will, there's a way
User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 6117 times:

And on top of all the incidents, UK news keeps going on about the latest BA / Gategourmet developments... BBC news is turning into an aviation channel!

User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 6094 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 1):
The year 2005 is another 1985 as far as air accidents go.

In numbers of accidents almost but in terms of fatalities it is far better.

The following figures are for fixed wing air transport accidents only, scheduled, charter or ferry, passenger or cargo. Not included are general aviation, helicopters and military aircraft (unless transports operated for the military by a civilian operator).

Accidents year to date:

1985: 19

2005: 18

Deaths year to date:

1985: 1902

2005: 580

So 2005 is nowhere near as grim a year as 1985.

Statistically it is even less grim if the figures are viewd in accidents or deaths per passenger thousand kilometres flown or per rotations performed.


User currently offlineDc863 From Denmark, joined Jun 1999, 1558 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 6048 times:

Orion737 that's exactly what I thought, 2005 is very similar to the summer of '85. Just one of those years i suppose.

User currently offlineCarmenlu15 From Guatemala, joined Dec 2004, 4759 posts, RR: 30
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 4 days ago) and read 6019 times:

Quoting Henpol747 (Reply 2):
What a crappy month!!

Tell me about it... Since this was a long weekend, I went on a trip to the countryside, to forget about daily worries for a while.

On Sunday I read the paper and realized that last week (Aug. 9) was the 10th anniversary of the GU flight that crashed in El Salvador... a sad day for Guatemalan aviation.

On Monday I grabbed the paper again and first thing I saw was the Helios 737 accident.

Today, back at home, my radio alarm set off to the news of the crash in Venezuela.

Add to that a helicopter that went down over two houses in Guatemala City last week (no fatalities)...

Quoting KLM685 (Thread starter):
I hope we don't have to listen about another one.

Amen!



Don't expect to see me around that much (if at all) -- the contact link should still work, though.
User currently offlineAlberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2920 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5975 times:

yeah this is turning out to be one hell of a bad month for aviation......


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5892 times:

Quoting Dc863 (Reply 9):
Orion737 that's exactly what I thought, 2005 is very similar to the summer of '85. Just one of those years i suppose.

Not so. On the basis of the figures in my previous post and taking summer as June, July and August we have:

Accidents:

1985: 6

2005: 7

Deaths:

1985: 1280

2005: 360


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4003 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5866 times:

What is particularly striking how evenly disaster is spread between the manufacturers:

1 Airbus
1 Boeing
1 McDonnell Douglas
1 ATR
1 Sikorsky
1 Eurocopter

Let's hope we don't see an Embraer or a BAe involved in an accident over the next couple of weeks.....


User currently offlineDogfighter2111 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2004, 1968 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5823 times:

Maybe it is something about all of the 5's:

WARNING!!! POP-UP BLOCKER RECCOMMENDED

1955: http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_year.cgi?year=1955

1965: http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_year.cgi?year=1965

1975: http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_year.cgi?year=1975

1985: http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_year.cgi?year=1985

1995: http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_year.cgi?year=1995

2005: http://www.airdisaster.com/cgi-bin/view_year.cgi?year=2005

I must admit that some other years are not as bad, but looking at those years you must admit there are alot of accidents.

Thanks
Mike


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5789 times:

Dogfighter2111,

Depends what you mean by a lot. The total accidents and deaths in 1955 will be proportionately massive compared to 2005 based on the number of passenger kilometres and/or rotations.

Accidents are random based on human and mechanical error (and that includes weather because a human has to make a decision to penetrate bad weather and if it proves wrong, it is an error).

One thing that does show a pattern is that the mid year of each decade has, for various reasons, shown a growth in traffic faster than in the immediate preceeding years.

1955 Peak post war year for growth in USA to date and better than 1956. European airlines reporting strong growth and increase in routes.

1965 Growth in US helped by increase in jet fleets and build up in MAC charters and logistics flights to do with Vietnam. Growth of supplemental carriers.

In Europe the holiday charter market showed strongest growth since it started. Strong growth in scheduled traffic.

1975 Throughout the world, traffic levels returning to normal after the 1973 Yom Kippur war and the 1974 fuel crisis. Massive growth in popular travel for holidays on both scheduled and charter airlines

1985 Economies on a boom throughout the world. Massive explosion in travel as ticket prices at an all time low in real terms, i.e. against value of earnings.

1995 First year of "normal" growth after slowdown for Gulf War. Service and pax levels returning to pre 1989 levels. Greater number of flights to/from ex Iron Curtain countries

2005. Service and pax levels back to pre 9/11 figures and massive growth despite oil prices. LCCs fueling further growth.


User currently offlineZKSUJ From New Zealand, joined May 2004, 7106 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5770 times:

Also don't forget BA had an overun with an ERJ yesterday at HAJ. Fortunately no one was injured.

User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5737 times:

There was a Do228 emergency landing in Venezuela, near San Juan de los Morros that kiddel one woman. I think it was on Friday or Saturday. I am trying to find the link...

User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5719 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 8):
So 2005 is nowhere near as grim a year as 1985.

I think one thing that definitely helped out this year's statistic for fatalities would be the miracle of all passengers on the AF A340 flight that got off without a single death. Surely if the 'crap' had hit the fan on that one, this year may be very comparable to 1985.

But, the stats are alarming considering we still have over 4 months of the year left. Hope nothing else major happens.

Cheers!  Big grin



Crye me a river
User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5705 times:

OK, so here it is (sorry Spanish)
http://www.eluniversal.com/2005/08/15/ccs_art_15412G.shtml

The Dornier Do228 from Wayumi Airlines went down due to failure of one engine on a field in the Venezuelan plains. 11 passengers and the pilot were hurt, a lady died in this accident.


User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5689 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 18):
Quoting Philb (Reply 8):
So 2005 is nowhere near as grim a year as 1985.

I think one thing that definitely helped out this year's statistic for fatalities would be the miracle of all passengers on the AF A340 flight that got off without a single death. Surely if the 'crap' had hit the fan on that one, this year may be very comparable to 1985.

Sorry, I thought maths was a prerequisite for an aviator.

301 total SOB on AF at YYZ. Add to 580 gives a YTD total of 881 - less than half of the YTD figure for 1985.

Add to the summer figure for 2005 and you get 661, just over half the summer figure to date for 1985.

In terms of where we are at in the categories quoted we are a about average.


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5672 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 20):
Sorry, I thought maths was a prerequisite for an aviator.

Thanks. I must have forgotten that course in college...hmm.

What I meant was that if the AF flight had been a total loss, the numbers would be more and closer to the same ballpark as 1985. I was being slightly sarcastic...I guess you forgot that course...maybe spelling too.  Big grin

Obviously it wouldn't be equal, but with 4 months left in the year, who knows what will happen. Thanks for the comment though...I'll be sure to do some reading tonight.  Big grin

Cheers!



Crye me a river
User currently offlinePhilb From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5629 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 21):
What I meant was that if the AF flight had been a total loss, the numbers would be more and closer to the same ballpark as 1985

As I stated, YTD they would bring the figure to less than half of the 1985 YTD figure or just over half of the 1985 "summer" to date figure. How do you make that to be closer to the same ball park? If you make 50% difference the same ball park you'd better watch your fuel calculations.

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 21):
Obviously it wouldn't be equal, but with 4 months left in the year, who knows what will happen.

We're not speculating on what might happen here, we are comparing like for like to dispel the illusion some have here that 2005, to date, has as bad a record as 1985.

Now then apart from a typo "viewd" in Reply 8, what's wrong with the spelling?


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5584 times:

Quoting Philb (Reply 20):
maths

Any questions?

And yes, you're most certainly right about the comparison between the two years being rather absurd, which is why I was relatively sarcastic about my original comment. I think people see a sharp yet isolated rise in the number of major incidents and believe its the apocalypse or something. It just so happens that there is a lot of media coverage for these incidents and therefore gives the impression that the sky is falling in the world of aviation. However, as you've stated, when you check the stats, we're no where near 1985.

So, in my own defense, I will say that I should have been more clear about what I meant and am very happy to see a fellow aviator save me from my wayward path. Heaven knows the lives of millions were dependent upon this thread.  Big grin

Quoting Philb (Reply 22):
If you make 50% difference the same ball park you'd better watch your fuel calculations.

Hmm...I knew something didn't seem right last night...hmm.

P.S. Humor is never considered excess baggage. Lighten up a little. My entire point was that it could have been worse with some of the incidents we've had thus far. If you add 301 more names to the list and have more incidents to come, then the year is now comparable to 1985...but no one knows until the end of the year. The math is fairly simple... x+y='85, x is what we have and y is what is yet to come. If y is less than 1322, then there is no equal to that year. Its called being happy for the fact that we're NOT yet comparable to 1985...its as simple as that.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5551 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 23):
Quoting Philb (Reply 20):
maths

Any questions?

That's not a misspelling... it's you being US-centric.  Wink


edit: missed the wink first time around -- didn't want to come across so cocky... sorry

[Edited 2005-08-17 01:04:58]


We can agree to disagree.
25 Philb : Maths is the correct English abbreviation for mathematics -the word is a plural, you don't say mathematic so the Americanism, which I often use myself
26 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : I gotcha now. The problem with the sentence was that you used 'was,' denoting a single-tense noun. Yes, 'maths' itself may be plural, but when referri
27 Derico : It really comes down to a matter of pure chance. I hate to say this, but since it's not going to bring anyone from those horrible accidents back to li
28 Philb : According to the Oxford English Dictionary, mathematics is both singular and plural. In UK English you would say maths is/was in common usage when ref
29 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : I think its just a difference in our forms of English. We would say, "I thought math was important for an aviator," and just knock off the 's' altoget
30 Philb : Agreed!! Off to bed now as it's 00.38 BST, though as I live at exactly 10W the real time is 22.58 - UTC less 40 minutes - so I'm really having an earl
31 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Goodnight and thanks for the vocab lesson! I honestly was wondering about the BBC's using of "Sport" last night when I watched their news, so I think
32 Post contains links Vatveng : More on that here and here It was a US Navy C-2A Greyhound that made a belly landing at Naval Station Norfolk.
33 Usnseallt82 : Yeah, it was due here at NPA today, along with the other C-2's and E-2's of the wing that came in to get ready for carrier quals.
34 QFA380 : Although there are alot more flights being flown and alot more passengers being flown over long distances we are advancing rapidly with our technolog
35 Cgagn : I read about a Jazz DH8 emergency landing with smoke in the cockpit. Another incident that could have ended alot worse. Emergency landing was made in
36 UA772IAD : Yes, this month is definetly giving the airplance crash statistic quite a work-out. I believe that it's more like 1987, where the Federal Government d
37 AGM114L : Strange. You would think most aviation incidents involve human error. Except for the Frog pilots, three incidents involved mechanical failures. Sounds
38 Philb : Sorry QFA380, it doesn't work like that. Advances in technology push boundaries. Now that doesn't mean at the same time safety can't be more accessib
39 Philb : Against this year's 580 deaths up to today, 1987 had 655. However the the enforcement of stricter SOPs only involved the USA and there is a whole wor
40 UA772IAD : How is this statement stupid in any way. For your information, I work for Metro in Washington DC. I was working during both bombings, in fact, I was
41 Usnseallt82 : Isn't that the truth. Its funny that when you wrote this post, three other incidents were waiting to happen with NW aircraft! Although the fatality s
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