Considerin the upper deck, this looks like a 741, but what about the winglets. Is it really a 744 whose upper deck looks smaller than it's supposed to be or is there something wrong with my eyes?
Any comments would be appreciated.
Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4658 posts, RR: 45 Reply 2, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9238 times:
It's a 747-400F, all -400Fs have the shorter fuselage and 3-window upper deck...hope that helps
JJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 17 Reply 3, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9222 times:
Sorry but there is something wrong with your eyes. May a suggest a dark sunglass and a guide dog? I´m joking of course...sorry for the joke!
It is a B744F. All the B744F don´t have the longer upper deck. What for? Just to carry extra weight and loose in payload? Also the engines are brand new and are totally different from the older B741...
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 4, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9221 times:
All non-conversion 744Fs, that is.
As for a 741 with winglets, you will see one soon as they are tested out, and eventually, you will see 741/2/3 and possibly 400 with new blended winglets somewhere around 20 feet tall.
Also, early 777s have winglets in the works...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
Levg79 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 989 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9198 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4): Also, early 777s have winglets in the works...
I remember reading that 777's wing is designed to be efficient without winglets.
Also, what are the differences between 741Fs and 744Fs, except for the cockpit and newer engines? I assume the size is about the same, or am I wrong?
Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
CitationJet From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2235 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9196 times:
Wukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1013 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9149 times:
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4): As for a 741 with winglets, you will see one soon as they are tested out, and eventually, you will see 741/2/3 and possibly 400 with new blended winglets somewhere around 20 feet tall.
Wasn't there a study release from Boeing a couple of months back saying that raked wingtips were their "way of the future" for their larger craft, as they were just as efficient in the longterm and the widebodies weren't as gate-restricted as the winglet and blended-equipped narrows (since raking adds to wingspan)?
That also could have just been a shot at the aftermarket winglet manufacturers, as well (although the concept photos of the 787 with rakes as opposed to winglets/blended would lead me to believe otherwise).
AeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1601 posts, RR: 52 Reply 9, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8989 times:
One 747-200 has been flown with winglets by API. However, the design was not taken to certification:
Quoting Levg79 (Reply 6): I remember reading that 777's wing is designed to be efficient without winglets.
Propaganda from The Empire. Any wing can benefit from a span extension. A winglet is just a non-planar span extension.
Quoting Wukka (Reply 8): Wasn't there a study release from Boeing a couple of months back saying that raked wingtips were their "way of the future" for their larger craft, as they were just as efficient in the longterm and the widebodies weren't as gate-restricted as the winglet and blended-equipped narrows (since raking adds to wingspan)?
Lemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4 Reply 11, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8932 times:
Seems crazy, but consider the size of the plane and wing...then thing about the 73G with it's 8ft tall blended winglets. 20ft on a 747 isn't so insane, to scale.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
Eg777er From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 1829 posts, RR: 13 Reply 13, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8834 times:
I thought that one of the reasons for putting the extended hump into the 747-300 was that it reduced drag and increased range/payload....so why not incorporate into the 744F?
Wukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1013 posts, RR: 17 Reply 15, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8797 times:
I'm sorry... I guess that I didn't include that in my post when I said, "That also could have just been a shot at the aftermarket winglet manufacturers..."
B744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8762 times:
Quoting Eg777er (Reply 13): I thought that one of the reasons for putting the extended hump into the 747-300 was that it reduced drag and increased range/payload....so why not incorporate into the 744F?
No easy way of getting cargo up there to the top deck
Halophila From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 623 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8728 times:
IIRC they also tried the blended winglets on a L-1011 a while ago too (seem to remember it being in CO old c/s), but the winglets never materialised on the a/c in production and were not retrofitted.
Bhmbaglock From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2698 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8672 times:
Quoting Levg79 (Reply 6): I remember reading that 777's wing is designed to be efficient without winglets.
That's the newer ones with raked wingtips. Older standard wings would definitely benefit particularly since 777s tend to fly long routes.
AeroWeanie From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1601 posts, RR: 52 Reply 19, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8503 times:
Quoting Wukka (Reply 15): I'm sorry... I guess that I didn't include that in my post when I said, "That also could have just been a shot at the aftermarket winglet manufacturers..."
Ooooops - sorry about that. I read the beginning of your post and jumped to conclusions too quickly. Your last paragraph is dead nuts on. BTW - the short range 787-3 will have winglets (Boeing designed, not APB designed), while the 787-8 and 787-9 will have raked tips.
Quoting Halophila (Reply 17): IIRC they also tried the blended winglets on a L-1011 a while ago too (seem to remember it being in CO old c/s), but the winglets never materialised on the a/c in production and were not retrofitted.
No L-1011 has ever been flown with winglets. I think you are thinking of the NASA testing of a DC-10 with winglets.
4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2846 posts, RR: 10 Reply 20, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8447 times:
Quoting AeroWeanie (Reply 9): Propaganda from The Empire. Any wing can benefit from a span extension. A winglet is just a non-planar span extension.
More propaganda from The Empire.
So, what you're trying to say here is that you think it's really clever to refer to Boeing as "The Empire"?
I disagree.
The original question has been answered, but I gotta say that I prefer the "short hump" 747 to the extended 743/4 (passenger!)
LeanOfPeak From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 509 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8412 times:
Yep, as has been said, factory -400F's have the short upper deck.
Just to confuse things further, some -100's and -200's have been converted to the stretched upper deck.
Halophila From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 623 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8212 times:
Quoting AeroWeanie (Reply 19): No L-1011 has ever been flown with winglets. I think you are thinking of the NASA testing of a DC-10 with winglets.
Ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 24, posted (7 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8048 times:
Quoting Bhmbaglock (Reply 18): That's the newer ones with raked wingtips. Older standard wings would definitely benefit particularly since 777s tend to fly long routes.
Exactly. Any winglets you see on the 777 would be 772ER and 773 retrofits, not on new planes (though theoretically, they could be on newly delivered 772s in the future, still as a retrofit). B has decided raked tips are their factory option for widebodies.
I had never seen that pic of the 747 with blended winglets. Av Partners said they thought it would be good for cargo ops, so why did they stop the certification process? as for 20 feet, that was an educated guess, but those winglets look to be a bit less than that, maybe 15 feet. But it's hard to tell. The 10 foot winglets on the 757 don't look that tall, so those could be 20 feet and just seem smaller next to the tall 747. Would be easier to tell from a direct side view.
I think the next plane they are looking at certifying, now the the 757 is working out and the 737 line is not incorporating winglets in all NG models, is the 762 and 763.
Quoting LeanOfPeak (Reply 21): Just to confuse things further, some -100's and -200's have been converted to the stretched upper deck.
It's not just that, as while the SUD was available as a retrofit, the 741 and 2 were also made available in SUD versions, and JAL took 2, IIRC.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 ZK-NBT: Not sure on 741's but KLM had several 742's converted to SUD in the mid 1980's. Just trying to think weather AF or UTA's 742SUD's were delivered like
26 Ljungdahl: "SUD" means Stretched Upper Deck, also a conversion. So the answer is that not a single 742SUD was delivered as such. /Johan
27 RobK: Because all the extra metal involved to make it a full length "pod" adds a significant amount of weight and more weight means a higher fuel burn so e
28 LorM: It does not increase payload. In fact it restricts bulk pallet height under the forward hump section by a few feet which is exactly why Boeing does n
29 SpeedbirdEGJJ: IIRC there is also an issue with the available cargo space being reduced directly underneath the upper deck. Therefore the shorter the upper deck the
30 Ikramerica: No, the term SUD does not indicate a conversion. It is Boeing term used for the option to have the SUD, and they made that offer available on the 741
31 LeanOfPeak: PlaneMad doesn't have any conversion date, so it would appear they were actually made that way, but JAL has JA8170 and JA8176, cn 23390/636 and 23637
32 Lemmy: Off topic, but where is the light coming from in the picture that SpeedbirdEGJJ posted? I looked at exterior shots of that aircraft and it doesn't hav
34 AvroArrow: I think those are just lights built into the side of the fuselage Lemmy.
35 LO231: KLM's 747's in th earlier days? I think.
36 Chiawei: JAL 747-146SR were made with SUD. In fact, those are late model 747-100 made in late 1980's.
37 Patroni: Correct. Under the upper deck the max height is 2.40m, behind it (loaded via the side cargo door) it is 3m. Actually the 747-300SF has the same avail
38 HAWK21M: B744F looks great with the Smaller Upper deck & Winglets. regds MEL
39 AKelley728: Would they do something similar for the -400SF conversions?
40 AirWillie6475: Actually you don't even have to look at the body, just look at the engines, that's not a classic 747 engine.
41 Patroni: Definitely. Don't have the 744SF specs here, so am not sure if they will bring it up to 742F volume or 744F volume. I guess this also depends on the
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