Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
UPS Pilots Won't Fly Displaced Northwest Cargo  
User currently offlineFLYiCRJ From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 55 posts, RR: 0
Posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8968 times:

The Independent Pilots Association, the union for pilots at United Parcel Service, has told UPS its pilots will not fly cargo that Northwest Airlines places with UPS during a strike. IPA President Tom Nicholson said, "We will simply set the parking brakes on any UPS plane containing struck goods."

Heres the full link, enjoy:


http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/050816/1150942.html?.v=1



- Justin

103 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1677 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8958 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

God bless unions. They keep America moving!


Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8944 times:

Sounds like it's time to dismantle this union.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8932 times:

That's why there's FedEx.  Big grin

Cheers!



Crye me a river
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8908 times:

Really smart guys... extra revenue your company could pick up while filling space on planes that would be otherwise empty and helping keeping freight movements in this country fluid during the strike... and you'll turn it down. Thanks for helping the anti-union movement. There are literally thousands of RJ pilots who'd LOVE your jobs and your salaries right now.

User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 934 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8906 times:

Yeah, FedEx has a little bigger presence in the Midwest and South, and would probably be more able to handle NW cargo traffic.


'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8861 times:

They are just making a statement that they put their fellow airline workers before anything else, personally I think that's fantastic.

User currently offlineUPSMD11 From United States of America, joined May 2003, 815 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8818 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

FedEx has a unionized pilot base as well. Their pilots may do the same thing as UPS.

User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8804 times:

This is why we need automation in the cockpit, at least for cargolifters.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8787 times:

FedEx also has strict regulations governing the operation of its flights in relation to union pilots and workers. While it may be the same situation as UPS, FedEx pilots know that their jobs have 200+ people waiting in line to take them if they drop the ball. Plus, FedEx has massive contingency plans to accommodate for "Brown-outs," which could easily handle the NW cargo.

But, I will agree that UPS is sure losing a nice wad of business by turning this down. They could easily keep the freight lines open, but won't for whatever reason. Like I said, "Brown-outs" seem to happen enough for FedEx to have contingency plans so I wonder if UPS unions are going to end up hurting the company. Do you work for UPS?



Crye me a river
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25392 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8775 times:

Not a surprise. Workers at United and Alaska made similar pledges earlier in the week.

Many union contracts have provisions that allow members to refuse to work/fly "struck work", from a company which unions are is engaged in a legal strike.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLowrider From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 3220 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8759 times:

I agree with B744F, you have to have some standards and you have to look out for your brothers, even if they wear a different color. Good for you UPS. The short term gained revenue is not worth the long term cost.


Proud OOTSK member
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8738 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 10):
Many union contracts have provisions that allow members to refuse to work/fly "struck work", from a company which unions are is engaged in a legal strike.

I hope somebody will be able to pick up the load. If not UPS and FedEx, maybe Atlas or Polar can jump in. I just don't understand why another carrier would pass up on the business, especially when business is needed. I can see why you would want to support a legal strike, but there are other ways to provide support without having to let millions of dollars in cargo just sit...although that seems to be the most heavily-impacting form of action.

Oh well, I hope something works out soon. Cheers!



Crye me a river
User currently offlineB744F From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8717 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 12):
without having to let millions of dollars in cargo just sit

That's the only leverage Union workers have against their bosses, they actually DO the most important part of the job and get everyones attention when they strike.


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4116 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8708 times:

Quoting FLYiCRJ (Thread starter):
"We will simply set the parking brakes on any UPS plane containing struck goods."

Well, that's something those guys at United Airlines in San Francisco didn't do  no  with their 747-400


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8663 times:

Quoting B744F (Reply 13):
That's the only leverage Union workers have against their bosses, they actually DO the most important part of the job and get everyones attention when they strike.

Right, but the problem I have is what exactly is the point of trying to leverage that threat against taking a pay cut when the strike itself could render the already weak airline even weaker, possibly resulting in lost jobs period. I understand the need for the system of checks and balances within private organizations that aren't subject to public scrutiny like the government is...someone must keep the bosses accountable. But you would think that if the members took a step back and viewed the situation from a macroeconomic standpoint, they would realize that the industry is already fragile and a strike would do more harm than good. It seems like strikes are used a little too frequently as a first-choice response instead of an absolute last result.

Now UPS, on the other hand, is just fueling the problem. I understand 'supporting the cause,' but when the 'cause' is threatening to gridlock a major cargo artery in North America, you really have to re-evaluate your priorities. Here we are, the wealthiest nation in the world and we're bitching about going from 70,000 a year to 60,000, when the alternative is having no job period. UPS could easily keep the problem from spreading throughout the industry by taking up the slack until NW gets everything squared away. Since they chose not to, I'm sure someone else will and will benefit from it. However, with UPS having such a vast system, the extra cargo would do little to slow their normal operations.

Whew...little winded there. Point being, I just hope the issue gets settled soon and if not then hopefully someone will be there to keep the cargo lines flowing smoothly.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2644 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8575 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 12):
hope somebody will be able to pick up the load. If not UPS and FedEx, maybe Atlas or Polar can jump in. I just don't understand why another carrier would pass up on the business

Well they will, quite simply. A 'struck good' is something that is technically in a Northwest cargo ULD or on their facility.

If strike is on day 2, all of day 1's in transit yet to arrive goods and new day 2 goods would be 'struck'. From that point after day 2, and day 3 ongoing, goods 'inducted' from customers owning 'struck' goods would not be additional 'struck' goods. So UPS can take China Exporters Inc.'s (or whoever) goods after the strike begins, just not the NW cargo that was shipped the day before  Smile



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8573 times:

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 15):
Here we are, the wealthiest nation in the world and we're bitching about going from 70,000 a year to 60,000, when the alternative is having no job period. UPS could easily keep the problem from spreading throughout the industry by taking up the slack until NW gets everything squared away.

These two statements show exactly how little you understand the problem, or the solution.

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 15):
Here we are, the wealthiest nation in the world and we're bitching about going from 70,000 a year to 60,000, when the alternative is having no job period.

The REAL numbers involved are as follows:

Current: $70,000
Proposed Cut: $17,500 (26%)
New Pay: $52,500

As I stated in another thread, put another way, try paying your bills and meeting your current obligations but take away you pay for THREE MONTHS. That's what the cuts involved are all about. Couple that with the fact that 52% of the mechanics who will vote on this contract, will be automatically voting themselves out of work, so the alternative you speak of is actually, bitch about taking a huge pay cut AND lose your job to boot.

Not such an attractive concept anymore, is it?

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 15):
UPS could easily keep the problem from spreading throughout the industry by taking up the slack until NW gets everything squared away.

The whole concept of solidarity is totally lost on you, isn't it? For unions to have any bargaining position at all, they have to stick together. Not that I'm on a pro-union rant (I have my own issues with unions, but that's unrelated to this issue) but understanding that basic precept is vital to understanding the overall problem and resulting solution.

If NW is allowed to "get away totally unscathed" by this strike (assuming the strike will happen), then the unions - ALL unions - have lost an enormous amount of bargaining position. By refusing the fly NW's cargo - "taking up the slack" as you put it - they send the message to their union brothers & sisters that they are not alone in this fight.

As to the second part, "NW getting everything squared away", do the math. Even with the concessions and job reductions, NW lost more money last quarter than they will save with these givebacks/cuts. Basically, the mechanics, pilots and F/A's have the following options in front of them:

1). Do nothing, and NWA goes into bankruptcy;

2). Ratify the contract, lose 26% of you pay and 52% of your workers, and NWA goes into bankruptcy;

3). Go on strike, get replaced by scabs, and NWA goes into bankruptcy.

The bottom line is NWA management (Steenland) waited far too damn long to do anything, adopting a "head-in-the-sand" mentality to the realities around them. AMFA is not adverse to pay cuts, but they want equality with the other union groups (no other group has been asked for the cuts & reductions in the percentages that AMFA is being asked for).

Before you spout off with "unions are bad, period" garbage like this, try looking at it from another perspective. I'm sure that the Navy taught you to look at all sides of an issue first...

MxCtrlr  bouncy 



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8562 times:

Quoting UPSMD11 (Reply 7):
FedEx has a unionized pilot base as well. Their pilots may do the same thing as UPS.

I read in a different thread here that the FedEx pilots did just that... they won't be flying NW Cargo.

At any rate, the thread title should be changed to make it more specific.

Anyone who thought that UPS would carry struck goods needs to get their head examined, UPS is quite possibly the most unionized small package delivery, and cargo company in the world



Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8535 times:

Quoting Aviationwiz (Reply 18):
UPS is quite possibly the most unionized small package delivery, and cargo company in the world

Isn't that the truth! I spent many long nights trying to accommodate the extra shipments at FedEx when UPS went on their 'annual' strike. Good for us, but wears you out!  crazy 

Cheers!



Crye me a river
User currently offlineFlyingTexan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8512 times:

Gotta luv unions. They’re good and bad.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 4):
There are literally thousands of RJ pilots who'd LOVE your jobs and your salaries right now.

 checkmark 


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11637 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8492 times:

Quoting MxCtrlr (Reply 17):
Not such an attractive concept anymore, is it?

Absolutely not -- it's a horrible concept, MxCtrlr -- and I fully empathize with the plight of the NW mechanics and their effort to retain their wages and benefits.

The problem, however, is that they are really just prolonging the inevitable. In a free-market, capitalist, consumerist society like our own, the market always ultimately moves to the lowest common denominator.

Look at what happened in the auto industry: workers there jealously guarded wages, benefits, pension plans, etc., and now half of them are out of work anyway because all their companies are losing billions. Why? Because new competitors with much more efficient and flexible workers (i.e., the Japanese) came in and said, "we can build a better care, cheaper, and sell it for less." And that's exactly what they did. And now, each month Toyota, Honda, etc. are gaining more and more market share in the U.S. auto market.

The same will ultimately occur in the U.S. airline industry (some would argue that it already is). I fully realize and recognize that NW mechanics want to keep all their wages, benefits, etc., but how on earth do they think NW is going to ever be competitive when B6 is outsourcing maintenance to El Salvador, UA is using Timco, US is doing work in Canada, and DL is as well? NW has to cut somewhere.

And, by the way, I fully agree with those who say NW management is negotiating in bad faith here. Of course they are -- it is quite clear that they want the union to strike so they can bring in scabs. However, even with that, I still just think that NW mechanics are putting off what is ultimately going to happen anyway.

Just my $.02.


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 8359 times:

Quoting MxCtrlr (Reply 17):
I'm sure that the Navy taught you to look at all sides of an issue first...

Not quite. I was going to respond with my bias here being that the Navy teaches you to shut the hell up and just do the job. Furthermore, you really think I don't understand the concept about paying bills and meeting obligations only to have to take a pay cut on an already pitiful salary? I wish I was as ignorant as you think I am...then I wouldn't have to experience it as well. The point is that I'm coming from a different area...you do the job because its your duty and you love it; the pay comes second. While we DEFINITELY have our share of bad apples, most are eventually weeded out and you have a relatively strong corps of aviators and crew who want to be there. Take the pay argument to the commuter pilots and the local FBO flight schools and see how much sympathy you get. I'm all for putting up a fight...I've put up more than my fair share. But the solution sought after is not always the best path in the end. Who does it really benefit? Like you said, in the end the company is still bankrupt. Don't preach to me about what I experience on a daily basis...the unforgiving environment of bureaucracy which leads to plenty of hardship for the workers. But strike is no option for us, nor would we ever choose it. When was the last time you heard of Navy pilots striking because the pay sucks? If we bitch about a pay cut, we DO lose our jobs...no questions asked.

Along with that, let it be known that not once have I stated that "unions are bad, period." Infer what you want, but my point was that the choice they are seeking is not necessarily the best option. History can prove the value of an uprising and solidarity, but you have to weigh the destruction it can cause against the benefits it can provide. While they don't have many other options right now, I just think that more time at the negotiating table, with BOTH sides offering a little bit of concession, could avoid this rather tragic situation to another U.S. carrier. However, the 'plight' of the worker and NW mechanic is not the devastating annihilation that you seem to make it. Somehow these people will survive, while it may require altering some set-in-their-ways lifestyles. I experience this every single freakin day. While I won't be so arrogant as to claim the situation is exactly the same with the military and a private enterprise, a dose of self-discipline and work ethic on BOTH sides of NW's feud can do the problem some good. What's the reality here? Another carrier trying to stay afloat. Somehow the workers must understand this and must be willing to do what they can to help the team. Now, I include in this that as a STRONG gesture of understanding their argument, the leadership of NW should give up some of their pleasures as well...that's only fair. But an all out strike can be avoided if people would try to work at solving the problem instead of saving their own hide...and yes, I know what THIS feels like. You take a cut to save the company on the condition that when profits go up, pay will once again increase. Make it contractual, make it written in stone, piss it on a wall, whatever it takes! But let the people know that their efforts to save the company will be rewarded. The union is an incredibly powerful organization, but does not always act in the best interests of the workers in the long-run.

So, tear at me as you will and infer everything BUT the point I was trying to make all night long...I know you feel this fight personally and have a keen interest in the outcome. But don't sit here and treat me as if I'm some snot-nosed turd that doesn't know up from down...I'm going through the same damn thing but on a different playing field, except we can't do a thing about it. At some point you have to look beyond the pain that the problem causes you and see what can be done to fix the problem as a whole. And no, not one single individual cannot do it alone, though they will be the one left to fend for their own life...I would think this is where the 'solidarity' of the union can come into play. What's more important here...getting your little dose of punching the boss in the face, possibly losing your job, or trying to stick with the company to fight through the problems and rising with it when profits once again climb?

Maybe I'm the one with the screwed up priorities here. Maybe I should be a little more selfish and think only of how this is going to affect 'me' and not think about anything else. Its my nature to work for the common good...there's no question in that. So I find it sad when people cannot push themselves to take a blow for that common good. Now, is the pay cut really that devastating? No. Will people be pissed because of having to alter their way of life? Of course...its the American way. Perhaps I'm being a little too optimistic here about human nature, thinking that this could ever be accomplished. But, can you take some hardship and fight alongside the job you love to keep it from going under while still maintaining a good quality of life? You better believe it! We do it every day and while the military won't be going under anytime soon, they sure like to make us feel like they're about to on some occasions. So guess what? You buck up and do what you have to do to get the problem solved.

Finally, as I feel some saying 'thank God,' I do feel for the workers and for the leadership of NW. While I believe the workers can compromise a little more to help the situation, the leadership sure as hell can step in with some compromises of their own to spark the workers into feeling, once again, like part of the team. But the fact of the matter is that threatening to shut down the entire system unless their pay stays high, even though the company needs their helps, will only fuel the problem and make matters much worse than they already are. Then, everyone's out of a job. Good luck to NW and good luck to the industry as a whole.



Crye me a river
User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8341 times:

Quoting HZ747300 (Reply 1):
God bless unions. They keep America moving!

or they stop America from moving!  Wink

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 3):
That's why there's FedEx.



Quoting UPSMD11 (Reply 7):
FedEx has a unionized pilot base as well. Their pilots may do the same thing as UPS.

THAT'S why there is DHL, Airborne Express...hey, what about Focus Air!

Quoting Usnseallt82 (Reply 9):
"Brown-outs,"

I know I'm taking it out of the context you wrote it, but I can't help but say: if/when the UPS pilots strike or refuse to fly NW Cargo, can we call it "brown outs?


User currently offlineUsnseallt82 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 4891 posts, RR: 52
Reply 24, posted (9 years 1 month 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8318 times:

Quoting FLAIRPORT (Reply 23):
can we call it "brown outs?

Haha, that will probably be the more tamed version of what it will otherwise be called.  Big grin

Cheers!



Crye me a river
25 Post contains images FLAIRPORT : Yea, but admit it, it does have a nice ring to it!
26 Post contains images MxCtrlr : Unfortunately, the problem is, backed up by the NMB representative, is that NWA is NOT negotiating. AMFA has said that, if the cuts and reductions we
27 Boeing757/767 : Is it me, or are unions completely child-like?
28 Lowrider : Its just you. Its the stereotypes that are completely child-like.
29 Frequentflyer : Well maybe MW Management is also tired of dealing with guys constantly threatening strikes... The UPS union is actually also "striking" by embargoing
30 Commavia : FF -- I'm not defending either side. I'm simply saying that NW management is obviously negotiating here with the intent of getting the union to strik
31 NWAFA : FedEx pilots came out yesterday stating they will not fly NWA shipments! So Glad to hear that!!
32 N328KF : That's bogus. This is a prime opportunity for other companies to prosper at the expense of NW management and unions, alike. This company needs to com
33 NWAFA : Wow N328KF, at reading your posts it appears that you have not taken any nice pills lately. No company needs to come crashing down. Thousands of lives
34 Frequentflyer : Hi Comm how've u been? I know you are not defending either side, and I do agree with your analysis. I just wanted to bring to the debate a feeling I
35 N328KF : I am not saying that unions didn't have their place, but they don't really now, especially in this situation. The death of NW would be the penalty fo
36 NWAFA : Sorry I don't think that 40,000 people should loose their jobs! (I for one, been there done that when I worked for Pan Am!) This is a board about Avia
37 Commavia : Definitely, and that no doubt will happen, regardless of what FedEx or UPS does. I'm sure that pilots and workers at and many carriers will be more t
38 Ikramerica : This stance makes no sense by the UPS pilots. One point of a strike action is to make the company you work for lose customers so that they get worried
39 Post contains images N328KF : It's not a jobs program, and treating it as such just makes a bad situation worse. If the company is not self-sustaining, it needs to go so that othe
40 KC135TopBoom : Well, UPS is actually a trucking company, who owns an airline. So, put the cargo on the trucks, and replace any pilot who refuses to fly any cargo tha
41 NWAFA : N, I would rather be emotional about something than not have any. Trust me I can NOT stand management at this company, they are crooked and rapist. St
42 Jetdeltamsy : The UPS pilots negotiated this policy in their last collective bargaining agreement. In other words, UPS management agreed to this years ago. The UPS
43 UPS Pilot : Try trucking freight to and from Asia. Asia is the money maker for NW, UPS, Fed Ex and others. Why is UPS being singled out when the ALPA which repre
44 RyanAFAMSP : Congratulations and thank you to the UPS pilots for stepping up to the plate, and helping out their colleagues at NW in what is certainly a difficult
45 Frequentflyer : Well after reading this thread, I am starting to think, Man those guys (Union) are convinced progress relies on their being unionized and on the contr
46 Lowrider : To a certain extent, business protection IS personal protection, but that idea has its limits. The company's management team is there to ensure the p
47 Airlinelover : Let's see.. It's August 17, 2005 now and NORTHWEST IS STILL IN THE AIR! How do you explain this?? While this is a really idiotic move by UPS and FedE
48 LHZXF : I don't know the full background to this thread though i'll take the chance of getting shot down and throw my 2cents in. If an airline (NW) wont move
49 ACdreamliner : Honestly, When will people get over this. We are at or above pre 9/11 loads, and under any other circumstance the airlines would be in boom times. It
50 Isitsafenow : As long as UPS gets my packages to me or the destination of my choice on time without delay, I could NOT give a rats tail (or other part of a rats beh
51 UPS Pilot : How do you figure? Their Loss? Maybe NorthWest employee gains? Nobody ever comments on how much the executives make and how much salary they have los
52 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Damnation...and you to mine! I will admit, I was very impressed to have a meaningful and thought-provoking conversation with a member who stimulated
53 B744F : And maybe one day people will wake up and realize you can't have that type of thinking and still be a society full of opportunity, when infact this r
54 Bredman1 : Just two words "Unions Suck" and they are killing many industries in the US
55 Boeing7E7 : That's what Kitty Hawk is for. Looks like one would be living beyond their means....If you don't put away 24% of your pay, your spending too much mon
56 UPS Pilot : Kitty Hawk pilots are in the same union as Northwest and Fed Ex. Nice try though.
57 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Like I said, time to invest in DHL. Or maybe Qantas can begin cargo service. Cheers!
58 B744F : They have it, operated by Atlas Air.
59 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Sorry, I meant a US cargo service. It was to go along with how well they're doing.
60 L-188 : If a pilot at a competing company isn't willing to fly their cargo, then they need to be terminated. Unions and their members need to remember the rea
61 Airlinelover : Even though I dont post about it much or join in the convos about it, I hate how much those execs are paid.. It's still bullshit.. Good that their ca
62 Frequentflyer : So in other words, when Cargo ops do well, you are not thankful to anybody except the "hard-working" crews, however when the going gets tough you bla
63 Boeing7E7 : Maybe that's why they're ramping up service at 8 airports right now due to start September 1.
64 Travelin man : Using this logic, shouldn't airline pilots at ALL airlines refuse to fly any PASSENGER who is booked on them from NW due to a strike? I mean, shouldn'
65 Lowrider : No, but other pax operators should refuse charters that would cover struck Northwest routes. If, for example, Northwest attempts to charter an United
66 UPS Pilot : Ok I'll be fair. Put yourself into the employees shoes at NW. You are doing the same job with possibly more responsability do to cut backs. Managemen
67 Post contains images PKK : Dear MxCtrlr & Usnseallt82, Since posts of the caliber you two have entered here are too few and far between these days, I've decided that I'd better
68 Frequentflyer : Bad. I thought NW Management had gotten paycheck reductions too. You are right. Looks like sheepishness to increase fares after 9/11. Or some lack of
69 Pope : I don't understand the logic here. Why should NW's customers suffer because UPS's employees want to show solidarity with their union brothers? NW loos
70 Post contains images Slider : And don't forget that those same US auto manufacturers have pension liabilities that make the airlines look like chump change. More archaic economics
71 NWAFA : SLIDER, The NTSB had nothing to do with it. It took the unions fighting companies and going forward with the FAA.
72 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : This was part of my point earlier. While I do not agree with the union taking such a hard stance during these times in the industry, I do believe tha
73 L-188 : A little melodramatic. but they are an asset and management does need to realize that an employee will provide a benfit if treated right and compensa
74 Yyz717 : I think the UPS pilots need to realize that their primary "fellow airline workers" are the other UPS workers who will benefit by gaining the addition
75 Usnseallt82 : I agree completely.
76 Learpilot : I couldn't disagree more. Here's why... This whole deal is not about kicking your competition when they are down, it's about UPS pilots lending a hel
77 Lowrider : Melodramtic? Yeah, more than a little, but it makes a point. Labor Relations 101: You don't get good relations with your labor without good management
78 L-188 : What idiot lets a clause like that get into their contract? I can't beleive that any mangement would allow that.
79 Yyz717 : You pilots are not paid to look out for each other. You are paid to make money for your shareholders, which means you are paid to look out for your f
80 King : In these tough times that we live I am thankful to have a job in the airline industry. What is a pay cut vs. a starting wage at another airline/carrie
81 L-188 : Exactly. How could management allow a contract with a union that prevents taking advantage of a competing carriers misfortune. And I don't see where
82 Learpilot : The idiots who manage a company that made a gross PROFIT of 15.67 BILLION DOLLARS last year. That's who. WTF? I hate to be the one who breaks the bad
83 L-188 : Negative, left the industry in December and am now working for Big Oil. And the reason I switched was that my airline employeer laid me off in Decemb
84 Post contains links PKK : Usnseallt82, As it is not really related to the subject of this thread, I'll keep the answer to that one short. The company Airborne Express has been
85 N328KF : Sheesh, and it's got a market cap of only $80 billion. That's a very impressive ROI.
86 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Geez, not another speech into the 'brethren' of unions. I think this has been milked enough now. Not quite...they do this to make money for the airli
87 Slider : Wrong again. At least you're consistent in your ignorance. But whatever makes you sleep in your cocoon at night. I agree- I've never understood this
88 Yyz717 : Wrong! You are NOT in the military! Your job is to fly efficiently for your employer (ie, the airline mgmt) while doing everything you can to maximiz
89 B744F : Some people have a different outlook on life, and choose to live their lives respectfully, not worship the almighty dollar like management does.
90 Kanebear : Last I checked, living respectfully doesn't pay very well. Oh, it may HELP, but other skills are quite necessary... like efficiency among many others
91 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Exactly! We have to fly from point A to point B, AND drop a hell of an ass-whopin in the process! In that arena, I don't give a flying figtail what t
92 Mrocktor : That is not your employer's problem. It's yours. And the unions adhere faithfully to the stereotype... Okay, as an aircraft safety engineer I call sh
93 Slider : I already called BS on him, but good to know there are other sentient beings out there that realize the megalomaniacal rantings of NWAFA.
94 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : I called it too, but I'd be happy to jump in again in agreement with both of you. The true tragedy of our time may in fact be the average human mind
95 Halls120 : But if the alternative to to taking the pay cut is that the airline goes under, everyone loses their jobs. I'd say that's ever MORE unattractive....
96 GEG2RAP : So is management will to take the same cuts they are asking of the AMFA? cut x% of management and drop their salaries y%???? if they have to make ends
97 HZ747300 : Labor unions are a drain on society, business, and are finally losing their favor with the US population (Alhumdillilah!). That said, management shoul
98 Lowrider : Because the laws were not always there. Unions formed, negotiated contracts, and started the ball rolling on issues like overtime, health insurance,
99 LUVRSW : Same shitt, different thread.
100 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : Flew for Enron once. Nice guy, that leader, but he said he had some financial problems. Oh well. Cheers!
101 Post contains links Kanebear : Here's a top 10 list for starters of well run companies. http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/07/best.companies/ . Their leadership seem to 'get it'. Delta
102 Post contains images Usnseallt82 : The force is called success. There are many ethical leaders out there, as the last post has mentioned. You don't think so? Try Sam Walton, Fred Smith
103 Ushermittwoch : Well, I see it this way: There are only two groups of people losing out on this (since FedEx and UPS don't really need the extra money, although it wo
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
FAA-Shorter Runway For T.F. Green In RI Won't Fly posted Mon Jul 31 2006 19:50:35 by KarlB737
UPS/Pilots Reach Tentative Agreement posted Sat Jul 1 2006 21:26:02 by Geg2rap
Southwest Pilots To Fly More posted Thu Dec 8 2005 18:40:52 by Luv2fly
UPS Pilots OK Union To Strike posted Sat Sep 3 2005 23:11:01 by KarlB737
UPS, Pilots Fail To Reach Contract Deal posted Fri May 27 2005 03:51:12 by Schipholjfk
UPS Pilots Union Approves Strike Vote posted Thu Mar 24 2005 23:27:13 by Jacobin777
Pressure On Fed-Ex Or UPS Pilots? posted Wed Mar 9 2005 05:23:10 by KhenleyDIA
Do Pilots Only Fly One Aircraft Type? posted Fri Jan 28 2005 22:06:56 by Erj145lr
Why WN Won't Fly International? posted Tue Sep 28 2004 01:23:26 by Fly2HMO
DL's Retired Pilots May Fly Again posted Wed Sep 15 2004 17:56:17 by ATLhomeCMH