Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3340 posts, RR: 6 Posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 40922 times:
I decided to open up a new thread as the other one is getting long and the mystery is now heading into a somewhat new direction:
There is interesting new information available in the German media (CNN affiliate n.tv), citing the chief investigator and the Greek defense ministry who rely on the now released testimony of the F16 fighter pilots:
The jet fighter pilots took a picture of the cockpit at 1118hrs, showing the co-pilot slumped over the control panel. 30 Minutes before the crash (i.e.: 1134 hrs), two people entered the cockpit of the stricken airliner, allegedly two flight attendants, the male with pilot training, the female his fiancée. The guy's name is reported as Andreas Prodromou, 25 years old, his fiancée is said to be one Haris Charalambous. The theory at this point is that they were able to survive on portable oxygen available to F/A in the cabin. The F16 fighter pilots took a picture of what was going on in the cockpit at 1140hrs.
The aircraft then left its holding pattern 23 minutes (1141hrs) before the crash, heading in the direction of ATH. Interpretation is that the F/A switched the AP off. The aircraft descended to approx. 10.000ft and then to 2.500ft (other news say 9.000ft and 7.000ft) over the sea. At that altitude, it started heading towards ATH airport and started slowly climbing again as if the F/A noticed he was too low.
The interpretation at this point is that the aircraft ran out of fuel, only a few miles out of ATH airport, and crashed at Grammatikos.
This fits into the information that near the cockpit wreckage a female F/A - although her name is given as Louiza Vouteri - The male F/A obviously was not found there. He was allegedly a fully licenced commerical pilot who was working as a F/A because he could not find a job as a pilot (other sources say he had taken "flight lessons").
Other news:
One passenger, a five year old boy, survived the crash with severe head injuries but died from inhaling toxic fume after the crash (this according to FT Germany).
It is believed that the missing CPT is still trapped under the wreckage that has not been moved so far.
Mika From Sweden, joined Jul 2000, 2780 posts, RR: 4 Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 40854 times:
What a horrific story that is..i read about the male F/A who had taken flight lessons and that his gf was a F/A on that same plane aswell. And that they crashed due to fuel starvation when heading towards ATH, that is just too tragic..
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2766 posts, RR: 6 Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 40724 times:
This crash is getting stranger by the day.
I guess I'll have to wait until NatGeo runs 'Air Crash Investigation' to really know what happened to the Helios plane. I know the reports will be out and will be discussed to death on this forum and others, but the NatGeo show can really illustrate the dramatic incidents well - last night they showed Avianca Flight 052.
CV747 From Iceland, joined Jan 2000, 170 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 40630 times:
I have a problem with this theory.
A fully licenced pilot would grab the radio and try to make contact to anyone around. Also they must have seen the F-16's and the F-16 would have noticed tried to make contact.
A APL pilot would know the emergency frequencies.
GARPD From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2103 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 40550 times:
This theory so far seems to be the one that fits the information published so far.
What bad luck, so close to safety, yet so far too. Tragic... had the FA pulled this off he'd have been a hero. Hell if it turns out to be true that he did try, he's a hero nonetheless.
Philb From Ireland, joined exactly 13 years ago today! , 2915 posts, RR: 17 Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 40545 times:
Not necessarily. We do not know how hypoxic they were. Even with POBs they could have suffered or be suffering from disorientation and slowing of mental and physical processes and their actions on gaining the cockpit could be partially instinctive.
In the circumstances in which they found themselves it would have taken two very cool, logical and fully functioning people to have done anything in an ordered way and no amount of training as aircrew or cabin crew would overcome the psychological impact of their plight.
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3340 posts, RR: 6 Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 40544 times:
Well, it is not a theory. Pictures were taken by the F16 pilots.
I am not sure why he should concentrate on communicating. Its "aviate, navigate, communicate" even in normal circumstances with a fully trained flight deck crew. If he had switched off the AP and was on portable oxygen, he would have had enough to struggle with, with radioing around probably the last thing on his mind (in addition, for what purpose - I mean the F16 pilots were around to report what was going on to whomever it may concern - and it was quite obvious that there was a problem).
ZakHH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 40247 times:
That puzzles me. The a/c was reported to have circled above the area for 25 minutes, before the AP was obviously switched off. Also, the whole incident itself (loss of cabin pressure, oxygen problems) started another ~30 minutes earlier. What has happened on board during this time? And why where 2 F/As wearing oxygen masks, while the F/O wasn't?
If these reports are true (better be careful with that), there is indeed lots of room for speculation what has happened on board of this aircraft, and why.
Iakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3267 posts, RR: 44 Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 40135 times:
The order to intercept was given at 10:55.
The two F-16 from Nea Anchialos AB (Volos) visualized the 737 at 11:15.
(this is consistent)
From 11:20 until the time of impact one of them flew in side formation with the 737, while the second remained "behind".
From about 11:30 until the time of impact, one male with white or light blue shirt and apparently blue jacket was trying to control the plane.
Just before that, he was seen moving the body of the FO with the help of a female (f/a ?).
The "pilot" did try to communicate by hands with the fighter, indicating he was trying to land the plane.
He descended to 7,000ft, then 2,500ft (over water), then climbed (probably realizing he was too low to avoid the 2-2,500ft hills.
After the hills, he would have had to perform a (90 degrees ?) left turn and
be visual on the runways towards the South.
After leaving LCA, while cleared to FL340, the pilot asked ATC to transit at FL140 to check a problem with pressurization (?).
Turkish ATC (that should be only a little bit later) reported 7700 being squawked.
If needed, the order to shoot it down would have been given, but there is evidence this has not been the case.
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3340 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 40064 times:
I don't see what is puzzling here:
The F16 testified that 30 minutes prior to the crash two people entered the cockpit. 23 minutes prior to the crash the aircraft left the holding pattern and started descending. They probably first attended to the F/O and removed him, then checked on the systems before they made some decisions and were probably also hampered in their actions by portable oxygen that they clearly needed at FL340. This very well explains the seven minute gap.
The data and evidence we have strongly supports the explanation:
- The fighter pilots witnessed and photographed what was going on in the cockpit.
- If the aircraft had simply run out of fuel and started gliding with a disengaged AP, it would not have lost 34.000ft altitude over a distance of just 37nm.
- If the aircraft had simply run out of fuel, why did it head exactly in the most logical direction for an emergency landing, towards Athens, near the coastline, but over the sea. With 360° avalable, the likelihood is not that big....
- If it was gliding without human input, it would have been a continous glide, not an initial descent to 10.000ft, then to 2.500ft and finally climbing again.
What needs to be explained, though, is what happened in the cabin before they entered the cockpit. As to what happened, who knows. Maybe they had to use force to get in. Probably it took them a while to be alerted, maybe they attended to pax or colleagues with portable oxygen when the pax oxygen had run out etc. etc.
Mrocktor From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1620 posts, RR: 51 Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 39964 times:
I agree that the larger mystery is what happened before they entered the cockpit. As in why it took over 20 minutes for the F/As to notice the aircraft was not descending as per standard operating procedures for depressurization.
mrocktor
The AGW hypothesis is still a solution in search of a problem - W. Eschenbach
Vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3340 posts, RR: 6 Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 39886 times:
All in all, it seems to be a very tragic situation. The F/A was obvioulsy able to control the aircraft, was heading in the correct direction, had succesfully descended to an approach altitude and was already in the vicinity of ATH airport when the aircraft, as it appears, ran out of fuel. He was however, at this point much too low, probably much to slow and no longer over water to attempt a crash landing. There is every reason to believe from his background and the actions he had taken so far that there would have been a reasonable chance that he was able to crash-land the aircraft at ATH (albeit we do not know how many of the pax would have been in a survivable condition).
Given that he was only 25miles away from ATH, for how much longer would he have needed fuel to make it to the airport ? It appears that it must have been a question of minutes - had he entered the cockpit just five minutes earlier, things might have ended differently. One can only hope that the reason for the delay in getting into the cockpit was not the security lock - if so, its first achievement would not have been to avoid a hijacking but to crash an airliner......
GARPD From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2103 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 39872 times:
Quoting Kilavoud (Reply 15): Once the plane was at its cruising altitude, couldn't possibly a window break in the cockpit, inititating all the subsequent troubles ?
Cheers. Kilavoud.
While that is possible, any such damage would have been spotted by the f16 pilots surely.
Iakobos From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 3267 posts, RR: 44 Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 39846 times:
From myself in another thread of yesterday.
Assuming the theoritical flight, Kea would have been reached at around 10:25 at about FL120. The air force indicates intercept at 11:08 at FL340.
Was the plane flying that slower (I think we can dismiss this one)
or
is it that it was on a preprogrammed holding pattern (dismiss ?)
or
is it that someone had been trying to control the plane for more than half an hour ?
Some time was lost (I assume) when the plane levelled off at FL140 (120 ?) to "check a problem", then resumed its climb to FL340.
It seems plausible (time and FIR-wise) that the 7700 transponder code was initiated during that climb, which could imply the pilots could have been incapacitated before reaching cruise level, and, at best climb speed, which I assume would have been kept all the way after having levelled off at 340.
This could explain the late arrival on Kea (some 40 minutes), better than someone "in control" flying in circles for that long.
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 39721 times:
Hi!
The new information given to me makes all sense. If there were some people still alive they had to be at least a little bright. And if we look the pattern that the airplane took I accept the fact that someone INDEED was flying the airplane during a few minutes. I give my biggest applause to these two people that tried desperately to land that airplane. Unfortunately it looks that the airplane run out of fuel and my question would be, how long would be HELIOS reserve fuel? What time should the plane land at ATH? I think maybe if the plane had some more fuel maybe this tragedy could have a different ending. But of course this is just personal opinion.
Regards
ACEregular From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 660 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 39600 times:
I started a thread yestersay , mainly dealing with the delay in getting into the flightdeck. My company ask us to put ourselves on portble oxygen and await instruction which would come after the rapid descent. I just think the crew down the back were just eager to let whoever they thought was till at the controls get it down, but they may not have been aware at the time that he was knocked out and only upon the aircraft not commencing the descent and passenger oxygen running out they were alerted to try and access the flightdeck. They should not have had a problem gaining entry or having to smash the door down. Crew know what to do in this situation but it should not be discussed to openly.
I think this adequately explains the delay in seeing the FA in the flightdeck later on in the actual emergency.
CBPhoto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1337 posts, RR: 6 Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 39551 times:
I guess we should also look at it from the point of view that had the fuel starvation happened later, and had the aircraft plunged into the heart of Athens, there surly would have been many many more fatalities. This is becoming a very interesting crash to follow, it's a pity however that it had to end with so many lives lost!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
25 Senliture: I don't understand the fuel part. If the plane ran out of fuel, why would it cause such a fire on the hill? It doesn't look like it has no fuel onboar
26 Vfw614: Well, it approached ATH (the airport) from the north and the new airport is to the east of Athens city, if memory serves. There would have been very l
27 CV990: Hi! Well beside fuel there's is other fluids and when it start igniting, plastics and other non-metal materials will get burned quite fast. About HELI
28 Iakobos: We are in Greece in August. A piece of broken glass is enough to start a huge fire. Eventhough it is not a "forrested" area, there are trees and plen
29 ZakHH: A simple match can cause such fires in dry bushlands. Even after running ouf fuel, an a/c should have enough flammable stuff onboard that lit up the
30 Vfw614: The energy set free at a high speed impact certainly is sufficient to set the area in fire. The stuff that was burning was mostly very dry bushes, gra
31 Spacecadet: Not sure if I believe this "news" or not. Let's recap some of the "news" we've heard about this crash so far: a) A text message was widely reported as
32 CV747: This info makes sense. Let look at the following scenario: (Remember that hypoxia is something that you don't feel. It happens and you pass out) 1. Ai
33 Vfw614: This is from the Macedonia Press Agency, citing Greek authorities. See above. Obviously she was the girl in the cockpit together with the male F/A. S
34 Iakobos: No body was found "in the cockpit". Two bodies were at a short distance from the front part of the a/c remains. Since the rest of the fuselage seems
35 Ruirui: I am still not convinced by anything I have read. But I am concerned...very concerned, because I believe a lot more facts are already known by the aut
36 Vfw614: OK, let's get this straight - I quoted a German source because it was the first I came across. But it is not something just a German tabloid is report
37 Semsem: Apparently the co pilot had a Diary of all his flights and he had told his son that if the truth about this airline were known, it would be shut down.
38 CV747: It was in the papers today that the FDR left for Paris today and that the VDR was badly damaged and that only the cover had been found. The mechanism
40 Kappel: You mean it reeks of it, badly... Not only did this guy die a meningless death, they also try to discredit him. Whoever made that story up should go
41 Kaneporta1: One thing that puzzles me is that in the tail section photos, it is clear that the horizontal stabilizers were in the full down position when the airc
42 Jush: How on earth can you assume that they didn't turn that way after crash after no hydraulic pressure anymore. That sounds rather logical to me. Assuming
43 Kaneporta1: I assume they didn't turn that way "after crash, after no hydraulic pressure" because the horizontal stabilizer of the 737, 757 and 767 is mechanicall
44 GARPD: Your source for this please? Also, good luck with sticking to the big airlines, what a stupid idea.
45 FLYAWA: In response to the theories posted by Ruirui in reply #35, I find them interesting and plausible. Most crash investigations end up as pilot error, rat
46 ClearedDirect: Well I guess the "film" will be something very much sought after - if it is ever released. http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1124197864.html of note
47 Qwerty: I don't buy it. Here's why: - Any trained pilot will realize that losing altitude was of paramount importance. If the flight-trained male F/A realize
48 Vfw614: As it appears, he only had a PPL and was hoping to become a commercial pilot. It is always easy to judge from an armchair what he should have done wi
49 Jaysit: Does anyone know at what angle the 733 hit terrain? Clearly it wasn't head on, as reports state that the bodies of both the female FA and the copilot
50 ACdreamliner: For these comments alone you should be banned from on here! Who are you to say an airliner with a pressure bulkhead problem (and a history of one at
51 Qwerty: Sure, but within 19 minutes of cabin (15min) O2 most of the PAX would have started entering braind damage terriroty (4min). The PAX long ended being
52 MD80fanatic: It would be very hard to climb anywhere with a nearly full down stabilizer, as noted (and mostly ignored sadly) above. Jeesh. So we look at that tail
53 Vfw614: OK, so he was late. What is your conclusion - can you furnish us with a more credible theory ? We are discussing the last 35minutes of the flight. He
54 Wjcandee: Not buying it. Nowhere previously has anyone indicated that the fighter pilots followed the aircraft down or on a new heading or that anyone was actua
55 Vfw614: Folks, before you start with that "I am not buying it" stuff, could I invite you to familarize you with the facts that are known ? It has been reporte
56 Mika: Some people never cease to amaze me with how damn cold and rational they view the world and apart of all, themselves. Everything is not black or white
57 L410Turbolet: Ruirui, [sarcasm mode on] just make sure you are not followed by some strange guys wearing sunglases. You know, now that you uncovered the conspiracy
58 Qwerty: Since you asked. Pilot error. But not by making the mistake (and any suggestion of doing this would represent a real crew mistake) that many people h
59 Vfw614: Could you provide a source that the aircraft "circled" into terrain ? By all accounts published, it did not do that (and if it did, those must have p
60 MD11Engineer: Concerning the lack of communications, the guy just being a PPL pilot might explain it. Airlner COM panels and Audio panels are quite a bit different
61 Iakobos: In length, the parts of the a/c are spread over approximately 500 meters (tali to nose). Make your guess.
62 Gmidy: My theory of this is that as described faulty/damaged air conditioning packs at cruise altitude caused a pressurization failure, this caused the pilot
63 Qwerty: Nope. And I'd hesitate to ever call a counter view an assumption. I don't believe that "information reported" will be borne out as factually correct.
64 Vfw614: Would you care to elaborate ? At the moment, the theory seems to be that F/A are on a different O2 supply and have access to portable O2, thus being
65 Iakobos: That makes a lot of sense Dr Watson. Forget that one. So far, there is not one single reason that might lead someone to think that there is a cover u
66 Vfw614: between the emergency signal and the crash was a time gap of 94 minutes......
67 Iakobos: Reported (public announcement by several officials) that the plane had been flying a holding pattern over Kea at FL340 descent was INITIATED at 11:40,
68 Qwerty: You objections mostly contain "reported" as in widely reported, as reported, according to sources, etc. Shoot away all you want, you can write whatev
69 Vfw614: Which are the different reports ? I have only heard (and referred to) one from a respected Greek newspaper that was citing reliable sources from with
70 No1racer: Hey all, I do find it quite odd that the Flight Attendant was seen in the cockpit after an hour. Even if he had been oblivious to the situation in the
71 BostonGuy: You need therapy. Lots and lots of therapy. No, all those people not joining you in your twisted tale are merely sane individuals. You need therapy.
72 SashA: Captain's body not recovered yet. Second CVR contents missing... I was following the three threads about this incident closely... quoting some of the
73 Kesflyer: The very nature of all military, Greek or otherwise, is not to share information openly. In fact, most of the military information is DIS-information
74 Kesflyer: Let us also stick with SAS ( Milan ), Singapore Airlines ( Taipei ), United Airlines ( Honolulu ), Air New Zealand ( Antarctic )....etc...
75 Mika: I believe your assumptions are made out of what you want them to be and absolutely nothing else. You have not come up with anything that has been rep
76 Mandala499: Before I start this reply... Someone who wrote reply #35 pointing at conspiracy theories need to get some medical O2. Accidents do happen... air accid
77 CV747: I am not a 737 pilot. Does the plane react at all if the AP is connected? Does it not ignore the input? Or deos depent on the mode its is in? Also if
78 Iakobos: Listen Lucky Luke, on the first day (almost) nothing official came out, the media had to make their stories based on any kind of first or second hand
79 Kaneporta1: Conspiracy theories aside, I'm still going to pinpoint the unusual horizontal stabilizer attitude. In MY opinion, they tried to climb (assuming someon
80 MD11Engineer: Since the control yoke and the elevators are mechanically linked, they will move, even if the autopilot is not disconnected. The autopilot will see t
81 MD11Engineer: With the stabiliser in full down the plane would not have stalled, but gone into a sloped dive into ground when the yoke input was removed, because t
82 Iakobos: Same thinking here, from the beginning. On the first day there were at least two drops from CL-415 and several by various helicopters. On the second
83 Kaneporta1: That is a more reasonable string of events. I was thinking of the China Airlines flight 140 that crashed at Nagoya. In that case the pilot was trying
84 LTBEWR: As to the fires, don't forget that even if the fuel had 'run out', there may have still been 10-30 gallons (40-120 Liters) of fuel still on board, man
85 CWAFlyer: What stab trim handle are you talking about that you can put your foot on?
86 Iakobos: LTBEWR, sure but they fought fire(s) for two days and what seems strange, at the same location (I mean the fire did not spread).
87 Kilavoud: "Reports circulating in airline circles in Cyprus say the German pilot contacted the company 25 minutes after the flight took off from Larnaca at 9am.
88 CV747: I have been discussing the issue with pilots. And it does not matter what scenario you describe. The whole thing always comes back to one question: W
89 Iakobos: Does anyone know what runway was in use in LGAV at that time ? or what were the wind conditions ? Just trying to find out if a North approach is coher
90 Kaneporta1: I found the radar image of the aircraft track: Don't know if this is any help but it still doesn't look like someone was trying to approach LGAV. The
92 Rabenschlag: thats wild: the usually rather reliable german newsmag FAZ reports that the pilot contacted helios center after takeoff, saying that they had PROBLEMS
93 Vfw614: Just to add because of all those conspiracy theorists: Engine shut-down: Source for FAZ is Greek state radio which is citing the greek investigators t
94 Qwerty: No, you just had to add because you made this your thread. That's fine. The only conspiracy here is that you think only your piecing together of the
95 Vfw614: Wasn't it you who discredited everything that was "just" reported in papers and wanted some more credible source ? Anyway - this will please you: Rad
96 Qwerty: It seems too early to say whether it is was disengaged versus it disengaged. Those thinking it was disengaged probably use the final flight profile t
97 Iakobos: Vfw, Phileleftheros is a Cypriot newspaper. Thanks Kenporta1, May I assume that radar readings show the following ? time (GMT+3) flight level heading
98 Qwerty: You could have looked at them. This also: http://www.skairadio.gr/4Dcgi/4Dcgi/local_116_id02n131092fqm
99 Iakobos: Can you answer the question I asked ? I am especially looking for confirmation that the 4th line of numbers relates to the ground speed and the 5th i
100 Iakobos: According to radar readings (time rearranged in local time/level/heading/ground speed) 10:07 340 291 405 a/c enroute - position is consistent with nor
101 AMSSFO: So the time of 10:37 reported earlier at which ATC could not get into contact refers to the time they decided that they really couldn't get into conta
102 Patrickj: 1. Once at 10,000 you can breath normally and anyone suffering from hypoxia would come around. 2. A 737 without power makes a very good glider so even
103 Vfw614: Data from the FDR indicates that the aircraft impacted the ground at an 15� angle on its belly and skidded for 300metres before disintegrating in
104 Qwerty: Only if they spent no more than 8-10 minutes at FL340. If you mean a very good uncontrolled glider, still trimmed for cruise. Well, I wouldn't call i
105 Iakobos: According to the experts, two bodies were found near the cockpit. One was the F/O (he was identified and buried), the other was the (female) cabin ch
106 Barney Captain: The A/P will revert to control wheel steering with minimal force applied either in roll or pitch. This effectively disengages the A/P (it is no longe
107 JAM747: Just saw this info regarding Greek investigations of the crash. They are apparently checking if certain chemicals or fumes might have killed some of t
108 Vfw614: OK, they have now grounded the rest of their fleet. We shall see if this was it for Helios. I put it in another thread as it has nothing to do with th
109 Qwerty: I continue to think there was no one other than the pilots in the cockpit. Yes, I doubt the accuracy of what's been reported, cited, or claimed about
110 Iakobos: Toxilogical tests (as of noon time) were performed on 6 "samples". Only one presented some traces of carbon monoxyde, and very little at that. (it was
111 Vfw614: What is a bit bizarre is that passengers on the second but last flight of plane in question, a flight from LHR (?) to LCA that arrived at 4:15am, now
112 Patrickj: No I meant that the aircraft will remain stable and glide very well. Even with the loss of both engines you will still get residual hydraulic power f
113 Vfw614: I am no expert in this, but if the a/c was on just one engine since 1150, would it have been able to keep a speed of 320 if losing only 300ft/minute
114 AMSSFO: from http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news "It is further reinforced from the fact, according to the �black box� recording, that the Boeing hit t
115 Iakobos: Yes, I have my doubts on the accuracy of these indications. Most of the cruise was 380-400 At 10:27, while level it shows 497 (921km/h) At 11:50 just
116 Vfw614: - Cypriot paper "Politis": 9-10 minutes after take-off the CPT contacted Helios HQ reporting problems with the cooling system. According to German med
117 Vfw614: Do a Google search with "Helios" and check what you see on top of the "Google ads" column on the right...... I am always surprised about the nerves so
118 Iakobos: From French sources (BEA bureau of investigations): FDR shows that an alarm sounded (cabin pressure) and masks dropped in the cabin 8 minutes into the
119 Backfire: Can I ask a question about the radar trace? Looking at it, and having correlated all the data blocks, I understand it says this: - aircraft approaches
120 Vfw614: Apparently yes - this is what has been reported by various media:
121 Iakobos: Backfire, The same pattern, triangle followed by holding circuits over Kea where confirmed today and showed graphically on all tv stations (using FS20
122 Backfire: VFW614 and Iakobos, Thanks - I'd actually realised that I'd made an error looking at the trace, which is why I edited my question. It's clear that the
123 Qwerty: Right-handed turns would have been expected on the hold. You can use your desired orientation from ground up or space down to decide on whether that
124 Vfw614: According to a rather detailed map in a Greek newspaper (I had posted the .gif here for a short time but asked to have it removed because of copyright
125 Iakobos: Latest developments... From BEA-Paris via ANA (news agency) The CVR recordings show no discussion. They report three calls for help (unsure if these w
126 OO-AOG: The plane arrived from London Heathrow, not Luton. If ever the press could give accurate info time to time.
127 RICARIZA: My apologies because I didn't read the entire thread and maybe it was discussed before, but is still possible the theory that the F-16s received the o
128 Iakobos: Since the tanks ran out and engines flamed out (respectively 13 and 3' before crash), the course of the plane during the last 13-14' brought it furthe
129 Iakobos: In today's letter from the chief of the investigation board to the Minister (Transport and Communications) The preliminary findings, which Chief inves
131 Iakobos: From official Greek sources today: Air Accidents Investigation Committee experts, who are investigating the causes of the accident, located a signific
132 Mandala499: Hmm... take off config warning sounds perhaps? Cabin Alt. Alerter (by Mandala499 Aug 23 2005 in Tech Ops) mandala499
133 Vfw614: What is a bit confusing is that until now it was reported that the F16 pilots saw someone in the cockpit from 1230hrs onwards, i.e. at the time the ai
134 Indy: Ok.. this may have been covered but the thread is getting so dang long. Ok assuming it was a loss of cabin pressure is it possible that the FAs had ox
135 Iakobos: Captain remains not found or unidentified yet. Vfw, Please deduct 1 hour to your timings.
136 CV747: I heard in the news that the cause of the accident was known. Decompression of the cabin after 25 minutes of flight and then it ran out of fuel. This
137 Indy: If the jets are secure like they are in the US how did the FAs get into the cockpit? Based on what has been posted I'd have to call this definately su
138 Mandala499: Could this question i posted be of any help? Different C/A Procs For Decompression. (by Mandala499 Aug 23 2005 in Civil Aviation) Does anyone know the
139 CV747: From what I heard, this 737 came from DBA and had a "secure door" i.e. same as in the US. I thought F/A have access to the cockpit. No? Maybe thats t
140 Iakobos: A British pilot (Captain ?) who flew the same a/c on August 7 (one week before the crash) has testified that he reported malfuntions with AC and cabin
141 Backfire: No-one seems to have considered the simple possibility that the skipper just left the door open while he was down the back.
142 LTBEWR: This crash has quickly developed into one of the most fasinating mx based ones to us and people in the industry in the history of modern (jet) aviatio
143 Mandala499: Maybe an additional "contact flight deck" on mask deployment if no signal from flight deck... Plus a "3 (or something else) chimes" for warning of rap
145 Iakobos: We know of a decompression, but not necessarily of a sudden (as in explosive) decompression. I do not think we will have to wait for long to learn ab
146 BCAL: Is this correct? I recall reading several posts (either on PPRuNe or on this site) that the plane might never have pressurised at all. But the big qu
147 TUNisia: So sad... That reminds me of when I read stories of PA 103. Apparently two or three people actually survived the fall to earth in their airplane seat
148 Iakobos: Since suspicions are centered on the (small and private) airline management and mx staff and the Cyprus CAA (or part of) and none are "in" the invest
149 HAWK21M: Any tentative date.Is it Three Months. regds MEL
150 DeC: http://www.phileleftheros.com/main/main.asp?gid=334&id=351651 The Cypriot newspaper quotes the head of the investigations, Akrivos Tsolakis, who's wor
151 DeC: Our media in Greece and Cyprus reported today that the first drafts from the search committee now focus their search on a series of human errors that
152 DeC: www.phileleftheros.com Mentions that the 2 British mechanics who were responsible for the maintenance of the crashed B737-300 have gone to England for
153 AMSSFO: In English: http://www.cyprus-mail.com/news/main.php?id=21655&cat_id=1 http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w...s_politics_100013_01/09/2005_60268 "the
155 DeC: Sorry, I missed the other threat. Moved there.[Edited 2005-09-08 12:18:02]
156 Mandala499: Or the FDX suicidal jumpseater episode :P Anyways... Never pressurizing gives similar results to slow decompression... Mandala499
157 DeC: Interesting new info: " Helios pilots both had heart problems THE pilot and co-pilot of the ill-fated Helios airliner which crashed with 121 people ab
159 DeC: "A COMPUTER- generated reconstruction of the circumstances that led to last month�s Hleios took place in Chanias yesterday." And interesting, new
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