Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Why Is The Dash8 More Popular In The Caribbean  
User currently offline8B775ZQ From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined Aug 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6184 times:

I'm new to the forum and i was just wondering,why is it that the DHC8 series of aircraft seems to be so popular with caribbean airlines i.e LIAT,CARIBBEAN STAR as opposed to say the ATR42-72 series.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLPMMM From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3589 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6153 times:

The Dash-8 is a STOL (Short Take-Off/Landing) aircraft so it works well with many of the smaller airports in the carribean. It is also quite fuel efficient when compared to RJs. Since the distances are usually relatively short, the slower airspeed is not much of a draw back.

User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6154 times:

I'm not an expert on pricing, but it could be that the non-French colonies had a better financial deal when they were in the market for an aircraft that could haul 50+ pax as well as handle the unprepared runways of some of their destinations. I've heard from some people that the DHC-8 series (excluding the Q400) are less expensive than the ATRs (new).


Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offline1MillionFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6141 times:

the Dash 8's are also hugely popular in Hawaii for their STOL capabilities as well.

User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6131 times:

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 3):
the Dash 8's are also hugely popular in Hawaii for their STOL capabilities as well.

Short-field performance is a strength of ATRs as well - just ask Air Tahiti  wink 



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offline8B775ZQ From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined Aug 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6098 times:

Thanks for the replies,but the question is still not totally answered.Both the DHC8 and the ATR42-72 have STOL capabilities but with the exception of AIR CARAIBES and AMERICAN EAGLE the ATR's are not that widely used in the caribbean area.

User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6094 times:

Quoting 1MillionFlyer (Reply 3):
the Dash 8's are also hugely popular in Hawaii for their STOL capabilities as well.

Hmm, Island Air used to have only five of them and I am not sure if more than two of the airports they serve really require STOL aircraft.

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Thread starter):
I'm new to the forum and i was just wondering,why is it that the DHC8 series of aircraft seems to be so popular with caribbean airlines i.e LIAT,CARIBBEAN STAR as opposed to say the ATR42-72 series.

Is it ?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim Ligas
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Elliott Kefalas



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Art Brett
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Wojdylo



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Keith Ogden
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Joan Martorell



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Casper Kolenbrander
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Daniel Werner



User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6059 times:

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 4):
Short-field performance is a strength of ATRs as well - just ask Air Tahiti

IIRC doesnt Air Tahiti operate the or one of the longest ATR flights in the world?



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offline8B775ZQ From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined Aug 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6045 times:

[quote=Vfw614,reply=6]Is it ?

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alan Lebeda



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Andreas Barowski



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Kazim Alikhan - t.dot photography



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Fritz



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Isa Ali



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dinesh Maharajh



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Casper Kolenbrander



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Casper Kolenbrander



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Victor Lopez


YES IT IS!!! And keep in mind EXECUTIVE AIRLINES i.e AMERICAN EAGLE is also considering the DHC8-400

[Edited 2005-08-17 21:49:09]

[Edited 2005-08-17 21:53:04]

User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6017 times:

Let me help you out with this one

EDIT: pics removed

[Edited 2005-08-17 21:57:30]

User currently offline8B775ZQ From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined Aug 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5986 times:

thanks Vfw614.
I'm still trying to get the hang of this.


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5994 times:

OK, let's do a headcount:

Carribbean Sun: 8 DHC8-100
Caribbean Star: 3 DHC8-100, 7 DHC8-300
LIAT: 5 DHC8-100, 6 DHC8-300
Air Jamaica: 5 DHC8-100
BWIA: 3 DHC8-300
Tobago Express: 5 DHC8-300

I have left out Dutch Caribbean (no longer existing) and AIRES (Columbian airline - there are quite a few ATR operators in South America...)

Executive: 41 ATR72
Bonairexpress: 2 ATR42
Air Caraibes: 2 ATR42, 3 ATR72
Aerocaribbean: 4 ATR42
Aerogaviota: 4 ATR42

That makes 6:5 airlines and 42:56 airframes.


User currently offline8B775ZQ From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined Aug 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5945 times:

Ok Vfw614 i'll admit you got me on that count but the the thing is we here in the caribbean see more of the airlines that fly the dehavilland than we see of those flying atr.With the exception of american eagle all those other atr operators don't really fly to much of the caribbean region.They mainly stick to their department and antillean islands in the case of the french and dutch airlines and cuba is pretty much a region unto itself.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32620 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5925 times:

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Reply 8):
i.e AMERICAN EAGLE is also considering the DHC8-400

No, they are not.



a.
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5924 times:

Fair enough  Wink Always depends on one's point of view. The Dashs are certainly spread more even between the operators.

User currently offline8B775ZQ From St. Kitts and Nevis, joined Aug 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5909 times:

MAH4546 Then maybe you would care to explain to me why EXECUTIVE AIRLINES which is AMERICAN EAGLE for those of us that "actually" live in the caribbean had an aircraft at SJU doing test flights as late as just last year.

User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5829 times:

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Reply 15):
MAH4546 Then maybe you would care to explain to me why EXECUTIVE AIRLINES which is AMERICAN EAGLE for those of us that "actually" live in the caribbean had an aircraft at SJU doing test flights as late as just last year.

Just because they were doing tests LAST year doesn't necessarily mean they are still considering it THIS year.
I would find your assumption more believable if it had said "as late as last week".  Smile


User currently offlineHZ747300 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2004, 1656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5780 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Here is something to add. In the book, Ask a Pilot, the gentleman who wrote it is, or was, a commercial pilot for American Eagle I believe. Anyways, it was a regional airline and he flew the ATR. One of the stories he tells is that in the summer it was so hot in the ATR that he took off his shirt. He complained that the air conditioning on the ATR is one of the worst designs of mankind and was not near enough air to cool down the plane on a hot midwestern day.

Maybe if the Dash-8 air works better, it might be a more logical choice as it is hot in the Carribbean--but I wouldn't know. I have only been to Panama (which was blazing hot & humid, but the girls were pretty), and I have only flown in a Dash-8 thrice (LGA-Ithaca, Ithaca-LGA, and ISP-PHL)... All were in the winter.



Keep on truckin'...
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32620 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5761 times:

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Reply 15):
Then maybe you would care to explain to me why EXECUTIVE AIRLINES which is AMERICAN EAGLE for those of us that "actually" live in the caribbean had an aircraft at SJU doing test flights as late as just last year.

No idea why. It could be that DeHallivand brought it down to show them.

They still aren't getting any Dash-8's. They love their ATR fleet's cargo capabilities.



a.
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5743 times:

As for the cargo aspect, the ATR42 probably is somewhat better because the cargo department has the same size, bu need to accommodate 20 pax less. There were issues here in Germany for Eurowings, which used to be europe biggest ATR operator, with the ATR72 because from time time luggage had to be left behind on hub-feeder flights because of the size of the cargo compartment.

User currently offlineLimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 783 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5731 times:

Quoting 8B775ZQ (Reply 15):
MAH4546 Then maybe you would care to explain to me why EXECUTIVE AIRLINES which is AMERICAN EAGLE for those of us that "actually" live in the caribbean had an aircraft at SJU doing test flights as late as just last year.

The same aircraft was in ANU doing test flights for LIAT and CStar. I guess Bombardier was just doing a Caribbean tour of the aircraft. That doesnt mean any airline, whether LIAT, Star or Eagle has any firm interest in the Q400.



You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3964 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5698 times:

Given the nature of the operation of most airlines, I doubt it would make much sense to operate the Q400 unless you really need the extra seats. On those shorts hops, its superior speed is of no advantage.

In addition, with over 31m in length and its rather delicate manoeuvering characteristics, it might be a bit difficult to handle at the smaller airfields.


User currently offlineLimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 783 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 5678 times:

If LIAT or CStar, for example, were to ever get Q400, they wouldnt be placed on the routes that the 100's and 300's are operating unless maybe they have overbooked a flight or have backed-up luggage. Other than that, the Q400's will be doing routes such as ANU-BGI, ANU-POS, ANU-GEO, ANU-SDQ, ANU-MBJ/KIN etc. As a side note, you would see notice all the flights i've stated starts in ANU. That is because LIAT and CStar are based here in ANU.


You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5528 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 7):
IIRC doesnt Air Tahiti operate the or one of the longest ATR flights in the world?

I believe it does; however it has little to do with its short-field performance.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5540 times:

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 11):
OK, let's do a headcount:

Carribbean Sun: 8 DHC8-100
Caribbean Star: 3 DHC8-100, 7 DHC8-300
LIAT: 5 DHC8-100, 6 DHC8-300
Air Jamaica: 5 DHC8-100
BWIA: 3 DHC8-300
Tobago Express: 5 DHC8-300

You forgot Bahamasair, with a fleet of (I think) 6 or 7 DHC-8-300s. Still doesn't match the ATR fleet in terms of size, but keep in mind (relatively speaking) that Executive is but one airline, so the ratio is now 7:5, and the airplane ratio gap is closing.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
25 8B775ZQ : LIAT is in no financial position to acquire a plane such as the DHC8-400.They're are constantly in debt and require constant financial aids from carib
26 Post contains images NASBWI : That didn't stop other airlines from acquiring new aircraft - US Airways & Bahamasair come to mind.
27 Post contains images Vfw614 : OK, another headcount after doing another research - DHC8: Caribbean Sun -1, BWIA -3, Air Jamaica -2, LIAT -1, Bahamasair +7 ATR: Bonairexpress +1 Bah
28 8B775ZQ : That minus one for caribbean sun might be the aircraft that is currently operating for it's sister airline caribbean star but still retains the caribb
29 Post contains images Fpofllflyboi : Perhaps that explains why they codeshare. Haha
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Why Is The DHC-8 So Popular In The Caribbean? posted Sun Jun 27 2004 06:18:35 by Flybyguy
Why Didn't DL Order More T7's In The Good Old Days posted Tue Mar 28 2006 10:27:20 by Gokmengs
Why Is Lufthansa So Keen On The 146/Avro RJs posted Tue Aug 30 2005 11:13:18 by Vfw614
Why Is SK Not More Succesful? posted Wed May 17 2006 15:54:05 by Skyhigh
Why Is MEM Having Continued Decline In Passengers posted Thu Mar 16 2006 22:28:39 by KarlB737
Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip? posted Tue Nov 22 2005 14:29:38 by RootsAir
Why Is This Pic So Popular? posted Wed Apr 6 2005 05:42:32 by QANTASforever
Why Is One-Way More Expensive Than Return? posted Sun Nov 7 2004 22:52:23 by SQNo1
Why Is This Picture So Popular? posted Mon Jun 21 2004 19:01:36 by Texasflyer
Why Is This Picture So Popular? posted Sun Nov 2 2003 22:28:40 by JetsGo