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PBI To Latinamerica And The Caribbean  
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3268 times:

There's a lot of talk now about new flights from FLL to Latinamerica and The Caribbean.
Would this South Florida international service growth make international flights out of PBI to Latinamerica and The Caribbean somewhat interesting in the near future? No matter if daily or just weekend leisure services.


I don't work for COPA Airlines!
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCarmenlu15 From Guatemala, joined Dec 2004, 4748 posts, RR: 32
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

I think it's possible... Florida has always been a popular destination for Latin Americans (the ones with a U.S. visa, that is), both on leisure and VFR travel. Do you think it could work as a less crowded alternative to MIA?

Saludos
Carmen



Being a pioneer in any field is not by itself a guarantee of continued success - Pan Am, anyone?
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3261 times:

Interesting idea, but it probably would not work except for a few flights to the caribbean region. Let me see if I can explain my logic:

1. MIA is the key airport to latin america - some call Miami the capital of Latin America. MIA clearly has the most flights and frequencies to the most destinations in the Carib/Latin American region - there is a huge amount of O&D traffic plus MIA is the major transit point for pax travelling between Latin America and cities in North America; of course a lot has to do with AA's major hub at MIA.

2. FLL has some flights to Latin America (a small amount when compared to MIA) most of which have been added quite recently.....many of the flights between FLL and Latin America are operated by US (as part of their plan to turn FLL into a focus city) and Spirit. Most of the activity at FLL is geared to O&D travellers; as FLL is convenient to many residents in the Miami/Dade area (FLL can be quicker to get to than MIA for pax that live in the Aventura area, for example) and there are signficant pockets of "ethnic communities" in Broward county where FLL is located. There has been some success with the FLL-Latin American connections.

3. Moving on to PBI: PBI is far north of MIA, actually a bit too far north to be considered a real alternative airport for residents in the Miami/Dade area or pax travelling to MIA so it would be difficult for an airline using PBI to tap into the big MIA-Latin American market (unless fares were much less expensive, then pax consider any alternative....look at Ryanair in Europe which uses out of the way airports). The Palm Beach area has fewer ties to Latin America than Dade or Broward does......and the most in Palm Beach Country have more connections to Long Island than any island in the caribbean. While a flight to San Juan or Cancun could work (more for pax based near PBI than anything else), I do not see enough demand to support any kind of Latin American network out of PBI. PBI is simply too close to MIA (and FLL)....and while many in the South Florida area like to avoid MIA for domestic travel, the same pax really do not seem to have a big problem heading to MIA for international and longhaul flights.

I could be all wrong about this, but I think that in the future MIA will remain South FLorida's (and the US's) primary gateway to the carib and latin america, with FLL adding some flights in specific markets, and PBI may gain a flight or two to the carib/bahamas, but otherwise remain a primarily domestic airport.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3194 times:

It would be a stretch. It could be possible but i dont know, i mean the other airport in South Florida that gets Latin America services FLL and its a small number of flights (like 12 daily) and a third gateway operational and cost wise is not too viable...but it could happen.

User currently offlineIslandboy From Bahamas, joined Dec 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3154 times:

Im not sure of San Juan, but PBI already has scheduled sevice to NAS (admittedly not in the Caribbean..but labelled as such) on UP and 3M. I dont see much more Latin America expansion happening for them. MIA and FLL pretty much have things all sewn up and getting from Palm Beach down to Miami takes about 2 hours depending on traffic.


Looks like the fresh wind has gone stale
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3149 times:

The most positive scenario for future southbound flights out of PBI may be a daily service on 50-100 pax aircraft to a major Latinamerican hub.
If those PBI flights are profitable, maybe it'll be attractive to fly RJ's from a Latinamerican hub to other Florida main airports like TPA, JAX and RSW too.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32189 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3128 times:

Quoting Islandboy (Reply 4):
PBI already has scheduled sevice to NAS (admittedly not in the Caribbean..but labelled as such) on UP and 3M. I

Bahamasair doesn't fly PBI-NAS, they fly PBI-MHH. Continental Connection, as you mentioned, flies PBI-NAS. They also fly PBI-MHH and PBI-FPO. Marsh Harbour is the most popular destination with Palm Beacher's (while Miamians go to Nassau and Broward County residents generally perfer Freeport)

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 5):
The most positive scenario for future southbound flights out of PBI may be a daily service on 50-100 pax aircraft to a major Latinamerican hub.

Doubtful. Not in the immediate future. FLL's service to Latin America is somewhat limited. You will see a lot more growth at FLL before a flight at PBI. The further away from Miami, the less strong the connections to Latin America get. A Caribbean flight from PBI, however, is another story. They already have Bahamas flights. Flights to the Caribbean are a logical step in the future. A daily AA 738 to SJU, for example, could have a lot of potential.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 5):
If those PBI flights are profitable, maybe it'll be attractive to fly RJ's from a Latinamerican hub to other Florida main airports like TPA, JAX and RSW too.

Again, I don't see any of that happening soon. Jacksonville is more North Georgia than Florida - there is no Latin connection.



a.
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Jacksonville is more North Georgia than Florida

Don't you mean South Georgia?



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32189 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3102 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 7):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Jacksonville is more North Georgia than Florida

Don't you mean South Georgia?

Duh. Thanks.



a.
User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2376 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3103 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 3):
It would be a stretch. It could be possible but i dont know, i mean the other airport in South Florida that gets Latin America services FLL and its a small number of flights (like 12 daily) and a third gateway operational and cost wise is not too viable...but it could happen.

I agree, AV have been doing good with the flights from FLL to South America via BOG based on the high population of Hispanics in Broward county, but having a third airport 30 mins from FLL and 50 mins from MIA doesn't look feasible. I take my flights to Colombia always from FLL, is 100 times easier specially when coming to FLL, immigration is very quick.

There are many (many as in thousands) of Brazilians in Pompano Beach (north of FLL) that could benefit from flight from PBI, but I am not sure if that is enough...



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3081 times:

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 9):
There are many (many as in thousands) of Brazilians in Pompano Beach (north of FLL) that could benefit from flight from PBI, but I am not sure if that is enough...

Pompano is nearer FLL than PBI, its an airport overlap we are talking about.


User currently offlineIslandboy From Bahamas, joined Dec 2003, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3064 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Bahamasair doesn't fly PBI-NAS

Actually they do..I just flew it last christmas and its been loaded in the fall schedule they released. I'll have to re-check but i think its 4x weekly.



Looks like the fresh wind has gone stale
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32189 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 3048 times:

Quoting Islandboy (Reply 11):
Actually they do..I just flew it last christmas and its been loaded in the fall schedule they released. I'll have to re-check but i think its 4x weekly.

Yup, thanks for the correction. Service started 4 November 2004, 3x weekly, MoFrSu.



a.
User currently offlineRICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2376 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 3012 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 10):
Pompano is nearer FLL than PBI, its an airport overlap we are talking about.

No doubt, that's exactly what I am talking about too..  Wink



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2946 times:

Rightnow only 3 Florida Airports (MIA, FLL and MCO) get air-service from Latinamerica and The Caribbean.
I belive in a couple of years the demographics of the Hispanics/Caribbean in Florida and the demand from local moslty high-end O/D markets will make flights between Latinamerican hubs and Florida airports like PBI, TPA, JAX and RSW a reality.
When it comes to domestic traffic, those Florida aiports have a good selection of flights to the main US airlines hubs, but Why should be any different with flights to an airline hub in Latinamerica or The Caribbean? It's Impossible to belive there're people in JAX traveling to Costa Rica?, Wealthy senior citizens in RSW who want to visit Machu-Pichu in Perú?, Brazilians in Palm Beach County who don't want to drive to MIA (or FLL) to cacth a flight to Brazil? or that MBJ can's support weekly flights from those Florida airports?



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32189 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2934 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):
It's Impossible to belive there're people in JAX traveling to Costa Rica?

Certainly not enough to support a non-stop. JAX has other areas in their network to fill...like a non-stop to Denver or another west coast hub. San Jose is the least of their worries. They don't even have flights to Canada or the Bahamas, let alone will they be getting a San Jose flight anytime soon.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):
, Wealthy senior citizens in RSW who want to visit Machu-Pichu in Perú?,

RSW-LIM? Good route for a Beech 1900DXXXR.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):
Brazilians in Palm Beach County who don't want to drive to MIA (or FLL) to cacth a flight to Brazil?

They don't have to drive, they can fly to Atlanta or Dallas if they perfer. PBI-GRU isn't happening anytime soon, or in the future.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):
or that MBJ can's support weekly flights from those Florida airports?

Caribbean is a different story. There is definitley potential in opening up more Caribbean (and Cancun) service from smaller Florida airports in the future, huge potential there.

It doesn't matter that senior citizens in Fort Myers and a family in Jacksonville want to go to Latin America. There aren't enough. Until then, those airports have plenty of flights to Miami, Houston, Atlanta, and other Latin hubs. Your comments are true, but you are totally ignoring the hub/spoke system. Airlines have hubs to route those passengers through.

[Edited 2005-08-18 23:46:29]


a.
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2929 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):

When it comes to domestic traffic, those Florida aiports have a good selection of flights to the main US airlines hubs, but Why should be any different with flights to an airline hub in Latinamerica or The Caribbean? It's Impossible to belive there're people in JAX traveling to Costa Rica?, Wealthy senior citizens in RSW who want to visit Machu-Pichu in Perú?, Brazilians in Palm Beach County who don't want to drive to MIA (or FLL) to cacth a flight to Brazil? or that MBJ can's support weekly flights from those Florida airports?

But its so much easier to route pax travelling from Palm Beach to Lima or Fort Meyers to St Maarten via the MIA hub - and far less risky as well. And while the demand is strong between Latin America and Florida, its not strong enough to operate flights from several regional Florida airports to the multitude of destinations in Latin America. The hub system works well here - as I stated above, the key is MIA where there is strong O&D and premium O&D due to business traffic, FLL picks up the excess, and MCO is popular due to tourist attractions....those cities will continue to be the gateways....pax going to/from other cities in Florida will either take connecting flights to the gateways or travel by land to one of those cities as the distances are not that far.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2897 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 15):
It doesn't matter that senior citizens in Fort Myers and a family in Jacksonville want to go to Latin America. There aren't enough. Until then, those airports have plenty of flights to Miami, Houston, Atlanta, and other Latin hubs. Your comments are true, but you are totally ignoring the hub/spoke system. Airlines have hubs to route those passengers through

Enough passengers for non-stop flights? I totally agree.
Enough passengers to feed a hub in Latinamerica flying on 50-100 passenger aircraft 5 times per week to daily? That's a possibility in the near future.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2886 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 17):
Enough passengers to feed a hub in Latinamerica flying on 50-100 passenger aircraft 5 times per week to daily?

From the Latin American side, airlines would might as well focus on increasing MIA alone instead of assuming risky quests by opening other stations.

At the time AV inherited the BOG-FLL route, they had much higher expectations and they even had plans to eventually open up a MDE-FLL flight. All those dreams are long-gone. The route is doing fine, loads are amazing, but yields are simply much stronger to MIA and AV, instead of increasing/upgrading FLL, has increased MIA since then.



SOUTHAMERICA


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32189 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 17):
Enough passengers to feed a hub in Latinamerica flying on 50-100 passenger aircraft 5 times per week to daily?

It's called MIA. It is a Latin America hub, and it has more extensive service and frequencies than any other hub in Latin America. And they also have easy access to two other important Latin hubs: Atlanta and Houston.



a.
User currently offlineMGA From Nicaragua, joined Mar 2005, 726 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2838 times:

Can we just end this thread with a big NO!!!!!  Wink

MGA



Que viva el guaro, el dinero y los aviones!!!
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4373 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2789 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):
Rightnow only 3 Florida Airports



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 17):
Enough passengers to feed a hub in Latinamerica flying on 50-100 passenger aircraft 5 times per week to daily? That's a possibility in the near future.

1. 3 AIRPORTS! Thats huge!

2. There are no aircraft of that size that can fly those routes right now.

3. I know were you are heading, to CM´s PTY hub and the Emb-190, no, PTY is NOT ATL, and not everyone wats to go through there, just get it.

Quoting MGA (Reply 20):
Can we just end this thread with a big NO!!!!!

Agree.


User currently offlineReguPilot From Puerto Rico, joined Jan 2004, 491 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 14):
I belive in a couple of years the demographics of the Hispanics/Caribbean in Florida and the demand from local moslty high-end O/D markets will make flights between Latinamerican hubs and Florida airports like PBI, TPA, JAX and RSW a reality.

AA flies 2 daily 757s to TPA from SJU... and one 757 from SDQ. Also at 738 to PAP. The last 2 will be discontinued in Aug22.

Off topic, while double checking AA's timetable, there's a Direct flight from SJU to ANC, KOA. And, what happened to AA's 738s in SJU? It's been months since last time I saw one.

-Ragu


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32189 posts, RR: 72
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2765 times:

Quoting ReguPilot (Reply 22):

AA flies 2 daily 757s to TPA from SJU... and one 757 from SDQ. Also at 738 to PAP. The last 2 will be discontinued in Aug22.

AA only flies one daily SJU-TPA flight. They do not fly TPA-PAP and they do not fly TPA-SDQ. They do have a one-stop TPA-PAP flight via Miami.

Quoting ReguPilot (Reply 22):
Off topic, while double checking AA's timetable, there's a Direct flight from SJU to ANC, KOA.

Yes, there is. No big deal, just a through flight number.

Quoting ReguPilot (Reply 22):
And, what happened to AA's 738s in SJU?

They don't fly there anymore. Haven't for a while now, more than a year, IIRC.



a.
User currently offlineReguPilot From Puerto Rico, joined Jan 2004, 491 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2760 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
AA only flies one daily SJU-TPA flight. They do not fly TPA-PAP and they do not fly TPA-SDQ. They do have a one-stop TPA-PAP flight via Miami.

That's what the PDF TimeTable I just downloaded said.


25 MAH4546 : PDF timetables are often difficult to read and confusing, I hate those things. AA does not fly TPA-SDQ/PAP, and never have. Try downloading the timet
26 Post contains images Carmenlu15 : Ok... NO I think that's big enough...
27 PVD757 : PBI sees holes in it's domestic schedule, never mind anything to the south. I suppose it's not out of the question, but it's a ways off...
28 Chepos : I believe that back when Kiwi International existed they operated at one point a flight between PBI and San Juan, if memory dosent serve me wrong. Che
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